The statements of the Mutakalimeen

[al-boriqee]

I finally brought it ikhwaan

I brought this from Shaykh Sulaymaan al-Ashqaar's "al-Asma'aa wa Sifaatullah" and others words I found in my takhreej

Shafiee said that his ruling upon the one who engaged in kalaam is that he should be beaten by a rod publicly' then

1. All these people should, or
2. they know Islam better than Shafi'ee

a-Fadheelati-Shaykh al-Haafidh Ibnu-Salaah mentioned that 'al-Qubt at-Tawghaani informed me twice that he heard Fakhru-deen Raazi (Famous Mutakalim;scholar of kalaam) mentioned "if only I had not devoted mysrlf to ilmu-kalaam and he would weep". itiqaadaat Firaaq al-Muslimeen

raazi's disappointment of where kalaam landed hi was evident in some lines of poetry he wrote narrated from Ibnu-Qayyim in Sawa'iq al-Mursala

One of the greatest mutakalim Imaams Abdul-kareem ash-Shahrastani, whos knowledge of places, peoples and creeds was unrivaled has depicted the state of the mutakalimeen concerning knowledge of doctrinal matters in the introduction to his book "Nihaaya al-Kalaam fil-Ilm al-kalaam" he says
"By my life, i have visited all the scholarly instituations and let my eyes roam around these places, Alla i have found are people with hands to their chins, In bewilderment or gnashing their teeth in regret."

According to the mutakalimeen, they viewed the salafi creed and manhaj as the beleif of old women. The imaams of his time known as the imam of al-Haramayn, Juwaiynee spoke nearning his death the following words.

I have plunged into the vast ocean and abandoned the people of islam and their knowledge. i immersed myself in what they forbade me from and now if Allah does not meet me with His Rahmah, then woe to me. Here am i dyiing on the same beleif as my mother (salafiyyah)". Niayaat al-Iqdaam fil kalaam

another mutakalim is mentioned by Ibnu-Qayyim to have said hte following
"Testify against me that I die and I know nothing except that the possible requires the necessary', he then replied "requirement is something non existant, therefore i know nothing.

again in sawa'iq mursalah another mutakalim said "The people who have doubt at the time of death are the mutakalimoon.


The rewvered Imaam Ibn-Waazeer said "Some oft he mutakalimeen and the heretic acted contrary to the propehts and his awliyyah and the imaams of the salaf with respect to reflection and contemplation. They made it burdensome, delved deeply, expressed clear meanings with ambigious expressions and returned, after a long journey, to doubt, bewilderment, enmity and accusing each other of lying"

Ibn Abu hadeed, one of those foremost in kalaam said
"So, that which i have engaged in persistency Is the perpetrator of the most terrible misfortune
I stayed in the wilderness (kalaam) with no knowledge and drowned in an ocean with no boat"

Another mutakalim said
"I have surpassed the limit of most, to what is higher and travelled and left behind in the centres
I plunged into a fathomless ocean and drove myself throuhg open deserts
I persisted on speculation then came to my senses (accepting the truth) prefering (that truth) the religion of old ladies (salafiyyah)


Imaam ash-Shawkaani who is in no need of intorduction said about the later part of his life when he delved into this science in his yopunger part the following
"The very limit of what I attained from my studies and my reflections, after much contemplation,
Was suspension in bewilderment between the two paths.
What then is the knowledge of the person who has known only bewilderment."

Whoever examines the bafflement of ther mutakalimoon knows the very truth about what Shaykhul-islam Ibnu-Taymiyyah said when he said
"They have been given intelligence but have not been given integrity, they have been given acumen but have not been given knowledge, they have been given hearing, sight, and hearts and then he quotes the ayaah
"We gave them hearing, sight, and hearts, but heir hearing, sight, and their hearts did not benefit them in the slightest because they denied the revelations of Allah and so they were encompassed by that which they mocked at" (auraatu-Ahqaaf 46;26)

i dont see how the science that was the cause of confusion, leaving the revelation, bewidlerment of the relgiion, ignorance can be taught in something called "islamic" in a positive light depsite the words of these mutakalimeen who spoke negatively about it.

these mutakalim imaams have called our dawah as the religion of old ladies and the sad yet great irony (greae for their after life) was that that which they mocked at, turned out to be the thing they saw to be the truth, many of them finnaly bowed down to this haq of aqeedatu-salaf and submitted to what they called the religion of old ladies.

[al-boriqee]

al-Ghazzali said,

‘ilm al-kalam creates more doubts instead of solving them!

[Ibn Ali]

As-Salamu alaikum,

ya akhi, jazakallahu khairan

but i wan´t to ask you; How you reply if a Asharii or a Maturidi reply "With this mean Imam Ash-Shafii the "Mutazilah" Kalam and not the "Sunni" Kalam....

I know that Kalam is Kalam, and not divided in Mutazilah or Sunni Kalam...

But i know many Asharii/maturidi this say

wa salamu alaikum

[Abu Turab]

as salaamu 'alaikum.

Are there any classical reputable sunni scholars from the early times Salaf us Salih who said that there are different types of Kalaam ( sunni and non-sunni )

Please do not quote from Ahl al-Kalaam.

[Ibn Ali]

wa alaikum Salam,

no i not know : D

This is the fitna of the ashariyya they innovate more and more opinions

wa salamu alaikum

[al-boriqee]

the ashari kalaam did not reach the level fo the mutazili falasafi kalaam. however what they did was eneter into ilmu-kalaam in order to refute them.

So in essence they decided that they could defeat the power of those reprehensible innovations those peoplecame with with nothing but an innovation. the result of repppeling thulm with thulm equaled through time that the ashaa'irah eventually became mutazilified. meaning thay are not fully fledged jahmiyyah or muitazilah but they are the inheretors of their legacy.That is why we find them regugitating the same jahmi rhetoric that was labeled on ahlu-sunnah in their times, we find they use the ecact same arguementys and labels agains ahlu-sunnah of our time. the difference between muatillah among ashairs andf the muatillah among the jahmiyyh and mutazilis is that the
1. mutaillah jahmiyyah/mutazila are muatillah sarih
2. where as asharis are muatilla ghayrihi

They dont copenly claim and manfiest their negation of lalah from Himself through their tanzih, but through false t'awil they wind up doing the same thing.

That was the result of engaging in ilmu-kalaam in the first.

but nowadays they classify ilmu-kalaam as aqeedah, but their aqeedah is nothing short of adding into the salafi aqeedah concepts of aristolism because it is aristolian aqeedah that formed the jahmi mutazili arguement and the philosophers. The Asharis just jumped in the pie with them to try to refute them as they knew, like salafis, that these people were worng, but ended up turning into them.

asalamu alaikum