vote and/or discuss

Do it baby

Do it baby

I'd rather there be some variety in projectiles as opposed to only having bows to deal with. It would be better especially when jobs come out and there are jobs that focus around projectiles. There were also guns in final fantasy games(if that matters much anymore since we're going away from FF, but the game was made based off of FF), so using the "it doesn't make sense" argument shouldn't fly.

Guns just don't fit in a fantasy environment. If you look at it, it makes no sense, RL or fantasy. Guns, compared to a simple sword, would easily do much more damage if they were made to make sense. Balancing them would be pointless, because it would be just ridiculous that a little Arquebus do less damage than most of the melee weaponry in the game.

Remove 'em. If we want variety, make more crossbow type projectile weapons, or something.

Swapping them out with crossbows wouldn't be a bad idea. Arbalest is already in there.

you could ALWAYS take out the thrown category since throwing a rock-makes it a projectile :S

Moot point is moot. This is FFO not Terulia.

I say bye guns and hai bows. Maybe bows could receive a slight buff or just be left as is. I think bows are pretty balanced as far as not being OP.

Take em out.

Nix em.

And odd that most of the posters in this topic said lose em, but the poll looks the way it does...curious.

I wonder why the pro speakers won't speak up?

Nuke that shit from orbit.

We can put gun-like weapons(Crossbows, maybe) back in later. Maybe. With balancing.

I'm surprised by the unanimous "REMOVE IT" vote, considering how much people like them.

Only like half the people that voted to remove said anything, and most of the ones that did simply said "Remove them" with no reasoning whatsoever. So far the only one who had any reasoning really was Tristan.

All the points have been made in previous topics Exo. When a weapon needs to be altered every other update, and is widely used by an entire server, regardless of character, then we can see there might be a balancing issue. They are too difficult to balance right now, so they should be removed so they can stop being a problem.

I think that the game should move away from one-shot, two-shot or even three-shot kills and towards duels between players that last for several turns, at least. Thus, attacks would be made weaker and faster.

But I don't have the game experience to be willing to back up my view with a vote, so I won't.

@Lumino: After guns are removed, everyone will be using bows. What's your point?

We don't have a problem balancing bows. :D

Exo got a point

The only reason guns are in the game is because they were used to some limited extent during the middle ages.
Matchlock and everything past it really have no place in the game in my opinion.

How many times have people said everything in the game doesn't need to make sense realistically. It IS a fantasy game after all. Guns can be in it if we choose to have them.

If they're going to be replaced by crossbows eventually then I don't know what the point in removing them at all is.

Besides. It's not like we have sniper rifles and shit... >_>

Removing guns is just for the best simply because a) they're too similar to how guns really work (you can hit people with swords, knives, etc a ton of times but if you see a gun from far away you're dead) and b) all the abilities you can think of for guns is very limited compared to bows. Bow and arrows just fit the fantasy theme a lot more and fit with the range balance better too. The whole idea of fighting with range is that you have more safety but do less damage than other weapons to make up for it. Guns skip that and just have big damage plus big range. The recoil doesn't matter since you can skip recoil in the formula if you just use it at the right time and knock away a big enough chunk of life for the kill. True, other weapons can do the same thing, but guns have a much larger chance of doing this plus do it from far away.

So yeah, remove guns, give bow users a couple of nice abilities. Range people shouldn't have the raw power most other weapons have but I'm sure later you can add in some cool specialties that give bow-users their own benefits that no other weapon can match.

The only issue with guns is that they do far too much damage, but they were also intended to be the most powerful weapon type in the game.

I say balance them, or give us a means to easily defend ourselves against a wad of iron.

Sinsie pretty much hit the nail on the head. You know when something is the primary tactic of both sides of an engagement, there's a problem. You know when every class tries to use them, there's a problem.

I voted to remove them. Guns are nigh impossible to balance as is. I also think that votes should only be counted from those who explain their reasoning. For all we know, the "balance" votes are full of people who liked having their godly gun damage.

No, because if guns become balanced, then they won't do godly damage. If they do then there would ideally be some other huge drawback.

So basically you can't balance guns since they don't fit in with the other weapons. Makes sense since you don't see the modern armies today using swords and maces and bows and arrows in combat zones.

Using throw skill is actually faster than F12ing to a bow/gun: as a monster is running away it's all a matter of clicking. When you f12, there's a slight delay and with the delay you may have a lag as well and you hit f12 again cause you thought it didn't switch which in fact it did but you just switched back.


Back to the topic: Yes, guns should be removed since they are over-powered and take away from using your class skills. Think about it irl, it takes more skill and practice to use a sword than it does to use a gun.

Have you even seen guns after the nerf? They're weak as hell. They need a slight buff right now, but not something that would make them godly. And also...if guns are going to get removed, and I'm being totally serious right now, I'd gladly have my master's projectile brought down to 1 and get my 5mil + exp back.

It would be interesting to see another bow skill implemented like "volley shot" or "rapid volley" (works the same way with ss or rs: click and hold) which would be ideal for being pursued by a mob or surrounded. What good is a bow if you're being chased by a mob and you can only kill one at a time? (Some of us prefer to solo :))

May I point out guns are the only reason Wizards (with slow, hold, sleep, icebolt and other things that keep a melee from moving as they normally would) can't just absolutely obliterate tanks.

If guns are removed I could literally take on 3 melee classes, be they level 40 or 4, with slow. Please leave them in, guns are to keep dark 2 and status spells in check.

Balance really should keep those things in check, not to mention, no offense Desh, but your opinion on this seems to be rather skewed: You've got everything capped with a Wizard staff.

Yeah that's end game. I've been dealing with guns since I CC'd. Back when I didn't even have a magus snake staff. This opinion has been formed dealing with the most gun-happy and powerful people in the game. Like Nab, Vigo, Tyrael, Alacor...

keep guns

add ak47 and m16

rename ffo to cod4: byond

*sigh*

So much for my dreams of obtaining a Matchlock and becoming one stylish motherfucker.


edit: but yeah, after the nerf, i'm not getting 1-shot anymore unless it's like an unholy blunderbuss and they have a level 50 temper on them or something
and even then they have to either use aim or get a crit

keep in mind that i am a mid-level black wizard with shitty equipment, me getting splattered by someone with extreme buffs/top tier equipment isn't out of the norm, as much as i wish it were. i knew the risks when i took this class, of course.

i feel i shouldn't have sold my bow...
i don't think guns should be removed since a guy who hit me for 900 before the change on guns is doing 200-400 now

I shall never see an arbalest or silver musket again ......

I hit for 160 on a goblin guard with a magnificent flintlock.

I hit 140ish on a goblin guard with a grand midnight crystal-bow of the bear.

Keep in mind, Exo, that elements add a TON of attack power to a weapon, moreso than I've noticed from imbuing. Could you test using a non-elemental bow please?

FFO: Modern Warfare. nix guns make bows do a mortal wound type thing (since IRL they would) Sounds completely reasonable to me. Give something to the range users (i used guns as a master so yeah) and if your junking guns can we get a refund on our exp? el oh el

If all bows did Mortal wound damage-then all weapons should do mortal wound damage-and the knife should get a ' Undo Mortal Wound ' skill while there Mortal Wound skill is taken away...
El Oh El

1. "they would irl" oh please don't go there... D: There are so many things that "they would irl" we don't do for a reason. It's called GAME. GAME BALANCE.

2. Everyone should stop worrying about a refund of exp. This version is just a joke. A little meal to tie you over until Tequila. If people complain so much about the exp they're going to lose maybe we should have a pwipe ;)

oh god yes oh god yes oh god yes.

Someone listen to this man.

On-topic, I'm all for guns being removed. The 'window' for a high-power range weapon being balanced is like the size of a small thermal exhaust port, and, when it comes to balancing, we haven't ever exactly been able to consistently bull's eye swamp rats that size anytime before...