Herblore - First Screenshots

I guess you've read enough about upcoming, brand new HERBLORE-skill - so let's take a look at the first screenshots:

Map view
Unknown plants here and there. Tiles for unknown plants are colored differently and blurred a bit to make them unrecognizable; gotta tweak it little more though.

Inventory
Carrying mysterious seeds, beans, berries and mushrooms.

Looking great so far!

can we then assume that herb lore could be learned from tribal elders? or how would we increase that specific skill?

One comment if I may - to prevent memorizing adjectives and knowing by heart what exactly "slimy" or "beautiful" means, I'd suggest making all unidentified items simply "unknown" or/and unusable until identified. I wouldnt put an odd looking thing in my mouth unless I am badly starving and even then I'd probably think twice about it.

Another thing is beans - I dont think its very healthy to eat then as is. Having one or two beans to chew on is one thing, but eat then as a meal without cooking? Wouldnt that cause bad case of indigestion?

Sami mentioned in another thread that these adjectives are going to be randomized each game so memorizing them would be a waste of time. The only advantage you could get might be that (having risked possible death several times in desperation) that specific character might know that it is okay to eat the slimy ones but the beautiful ones will make you puke. Which of course seems completely reasonable.

As a side note, I hope when this goes in and replaces Foraging that Agriculture is counterbalanced against it. It's a bit borked to have everyone have 2 agriculture ranks. It would seem to me that the farming cultures would have higher (3-4) agriculture and lower (0-2) herblore while the hunter/gatherer tribes would be the opposite. There is a strong bias towards making the wilder tribes universally "better" in the current skill distribution.

What could be neat for herblore is if it is accompanied by a data screen similar to the one for prayers. As you encounter (have in inventory) various plants they get added to the list along with what you have determined about them. Eat one and not get sick and it adds "edible" next to the "slimy mushroom" entry. Things like "Safe if boiled", "Tastes good", "makes me drowsy" can all substitute for game tags/events detected.

Filing in this "chart" would cause skill increases and the skill itself would increase what could be detected. At high levels you could determine it is "good for healing" from tasting it or "safe if cooked" without even eating any. The proper name and full unlock of the encyclopedia entry would come from either making a tough skill roll after detecting an attribute of the plant or bringing a sample to a sage.

Each culture would start with certain local plants fully identified with all the details - like the farmers knowing all the grains and vegetables while hunters know some medicinal herbs. Players would also start with knowledge of a few extra plants at random based on the herblore skill.

Random you say.. Yes, this will work.

Another thing, its minor but still now is the time to mention it as nothing is set yet - the adjectives themselves. It is no big deal, but I think things like Funny, Beautiful or Odd/Strange is a bit out of place. I mean there are lots of flora in the forest that I dont know, but I probably wouldnt use such strong adjectives for it. Come to think of it, I'd try to give it a name that relates to some kind of characteristics of the plant itself, but that would mess it up of course. So why not have all of it simply "Unknown" till the person tries it somehow and then add "edible", "poisonous", "nauseous" [plant/shroom/berry] tags?

I rly like Rain's "chart" idea. Very solid.

In real life it sometimes is that one simply fails to identify a mushroom.

I mean, some have clear spesific characteristics, and I can clearly tell that "ooh, this is again this strange mushroom. I don't know its name nor is it edible. But for sure I know that this is the same kind of mushroom I saw yesterday also." But more often it is like "Well, I'm not exactly sure if I know this musrhoom. This looks a bit like 'Koivunkantosieni' which is edible, but 'Myrkkynääpikkä' looks almost the same and it is poisonous. Or then it might just be some other kind of 'nääpikkä', which is not poisonous but doesn't taste any good." - and in real life this happens with me, even if I have a good manual with pictures and descriptions in it. With some mushroom I just find ones which don't seem to clearly fit into any of the descriptions in the book. So, that being the case, if I tried one of those mushroom and found it delicious, it wouldn't help me the next time I encounter same kind of strange mushroom. "Oh, I once tasted one which looked almost like this. Now, is this again the same kind of some of the 'nääpikkä'? They all look so similiar that it isn't easy to tell the difference."

So I'd suggest either;

a simple solution (quick and dirty): give unknown mushroom / plant a random name every time the player finds one. (or plainly call of them "unknown") Make them non-stackable in inventory. So, if you tested "an odd mushroom", you wouldn't still know if the next "odd mushroom" you encounter is the same kind of "odd mushroom" or some other type which just randomly happens to get the same name.

bit more sophisticated solution: give plants and mushroom some kind of "easiness to identify"-attribute. For example, some could have values like 10 to 20, and the others be 75 - 90. A character with foraging skill of 25 could identify the easy ones (even without knowing if they are edible or not. But just being able to give them consistent names like "slimy mushroom", "funny yellow mushroom" or "a tall red flower". And those with higher value would always appear as "unknown mushroom" or "unknown plant". For the identified ones the character could gain more information by testing or by asking NPC's. But even if you bring an "unknow mushroom" to the sage and he tells you how it is called and is it edible, you would still fail to identify the next time you find the same mushroom in the forest.

Aye, mushrooms pose an extra level of difficulty in how to simulate. Unlike plants their structures are less complex and differentiated. A completely separate mechanism might be needed for those.

I think that the adjectives should absolutely be kept, but randomized to a certain extent with each new character. Think of a strawberry. If you didn't know what it was, it could be the "large bumpy berry" or the "short red fruit" or the "low singular berry" [as opposed to clumped or bunched]. If you were adventurous (or desperate!) enough to try it, you could find that this particular fruit is sweet, pleasant, and not poisonous. Then when you see another patch of "large bumpy berry" you will know that you can eat it with no ill effects. Of course, there would have to be some checks in place to avoid calling something similar a large bumpy berry, because the character would be able to distinguish, say, a strawberry from a raspberry, and this needs to be reliably conveyed to the player.

If all unknown berries were simply described as 'unknown,' the player (you) wouldn't have the slightest idea if their character encountered this plant before, which is unrealistic. Also, a few adjectives with the plant really help with the immersion factor of the game. Like the detailed combat descriptions, which really keep things exciting and help me visualize what is going on, if I can picture the berry in my head (no matter how vague) it makes the game more fun.

I don't see these descriptions as a strong adjectives per se, but rather something to aid in the identification of a particular plant or herb. But as erkka mentions, the inability to identify a particular plant reliably throws a wrench into this whole thing! I also think this is much more applicable to mushrooms than berries or herbs. I like the idea that was proposed about the inability to identify factor, and there could also be the chance that the player could mis-identify something. Although terrifying, it is certainly a possibility. But if this is the case, the player should be warned with something like "You think you misidentified the large white mushroom! It didn't taste at all like the last one, and now you don't feel so well..." so that the player doesn't feel cheated or that he/she died or got sick out of nowhere.

Also, the chart idea sounds really cool, like all the effects that you find could be slowly filled in as you discover them. Also the fact that certain cultures would know about certain plants that are native to their area or important to their survival seems essential. This also poses the question: how many insta-death plants will be out there? If there are a few, it could make herblore risky to pursue when you are low level, but very rewarding to level up. Then again, if there are too many, I personally would be rather scared/hesitant to use the skill.

Welp, there's my two cents. I'm sure I'll be more than happy with however you decide to handle this, Sami! It's looking great so far!

A great addition to the game!
As for the naming, Amanita phalloides looks quite beautiful to me and those who have tasted it have reported that it tastes nice, but these mushrooms were the last delicious thing that they could eat Maybe the villager sages could help us identify plants?

SveeKo and others had some good points, and I think the most important thing is that the different tribes start with certain plants always known. I can identify several several edible and poisonous plants here in South Texas, and I imagine if everyone in my town was actually reliant on them for day to day living I'd know a lot more and so would everyone else.

I'd even go so far as to suggest that maybe the Herblore skill should just apply to mushrooms and medicinal plants...I mean, a raspberry is a raspberry and a turnip is a turnip, it's weird to think that a character who'd been living in that environment for at least 16 years or so wouldn't be aware of at least the really obvious stuff.

i don't think the adjectives make much sense. i think the plants should be named after the region the player encounters them first, and if several plants are discovered in the same region it adds a concrete adjective from a list of adjectives on the plant definitions; not something like beautiful, odd, etc, but rather color, size, leaf shape etc.

I think the problem with this is that after awhile the player would always be able to identify the plant even if the character couldn't.

I'm not sure what was done in real life back in those days, but surely people wouldn't just eat the whole thing?

Couldn't there be an option to eat a tiny crumb of the food. In fact you can choose the size of the bite (from 1% to 100%, perhaps). And when it's small it has a reduced effect and no chance of killing - however, sometimes a lethal thing will have no effect at all, so it seems benign unless you do thorough testing (and leaving it for some time after each crumb bite to see if there are long term results).

Nice changes.
As for flora and (odd) adjectives: no idea about coding myself and what is possible and what is not, but what about a combination of unknown and similar/like based on experience and knowledge instead of randomisation of odd, queer, slimy, wonderfull?
mushroom like Ukko's
mushroom, similar to edible
mushroom, similar to edible and the poisonous one
mushroom like the deadly one (for progeny, of course)

Best regards