Less Large Game, I find at least the same amount of elk

I was not suggesting that the game be changed. Just countering people who think the game is unrealistic in the amount of large game available.
Its unrealistically low, but hunting is unrealistically easy.
Your lean to is unrealistically secure,
your enemies are unrealistically stupid.

All things that sami is thinking on. But saying we need fewer animals is I think a mistake.
In enviroments where there is lots of food for them, and not lots of human hunters, there is alot of game.

Yes, there should be plenty of game. And a really skilled hunter could do very well there, no questions asked... But it would take a lot for not so skilled hunter to even get one, no matter he might see plenty.

And one hunter couldn't really affect the population numbers alone. At maximum it could make certain small area have less game, but just moving few dozen kilometers around and there would be more.

It isn't about limiting the amount of game, it is about making hunting realistic enough for it to be really hard. You would have to take into account the wind, noises etc. It isn't that hard to spot an animal, but it is hard to get one dead. It most terrains you won't get reliable tracks and will lose the game even if you land a good shot into it. That is for large game. Only a really lucky shot would prevent it from running away much or to bleed enough for one to track from it.

You have to take into account that the bows and arrows weren't really that accurate as of nowadays. Slightly curved arrow will not really hit where you want it, and it is extremely hard to make a straight arrow without manufacturing tools of today. So, you really have to get close to the target to score reliable critical hit. Otherwise, you are likely to only hurt the target, or miss all together, and have it running away.

I think that the secret of making straight arrows with primitive methods is a long, slow, controlled drying of the timber.

But heck yes - curved arrows, I want curved arrows!

EDIT:
"-why aren't my arrows stacking in the inventory anymore?
-because some of them are pretty straight, the others are slightly curved and the rest are really twisted."

Yea, like it is done in URW.. "Let's make 20 arrows today out of random living trees!"

There could be random curvature factor added into the arrow simulation.

Hey, if you want curved arrows, can I have a boomerang-like type of arrows?

I would be quite nice to have different arrows - much like we have with bows now. Primitive ones would be made out of somewhat strait twigs with bone/rock tips and normal arrow would have properly made shafts, properly fletched and with neat bone/rock or even iron arrowheads.

I wanted to second the whole animal density to kill ratio thing. I live on a farm in Maryland, USA, and in the woods upon that farm there are 25+ deer that regularly roam across the fields in a herd. The whole farm is maybe 400 acres, not even a square mile. Ducks, geese, all kinds of other wildlife cross my path. Geese in the hundreds at times. At one time there were even about 4 fox that roamed the fields. A flock of about 20 wild turkeys occasionally crosses the field once every month or two. This is all in less than a square mile, and less than 2 miles from the city limits of the county seat.

(Just FYI, I don't actually hunt any of the animals on my farm, I enjoy the wildlife scenery more than the hunt. In fact the deer are so tame I can get within a few feet of them before they turn and run.)

If you consider this game takes place in the Finnish iron age with lower population density and not as much over harvesting, I'd imagine the countryside simply teeming with wildlife.

On the other hand, I feel like its far too easy to kill an animal, large game especially, with the primitive weapons at hand. Chasing the animal is very easy in this game compared to the reality of attempting to chase spooked deer.

It seems to me that, if you take a shot at an animal and miss, the animal would sense that danger and run a fair distance at a speed greater than what most people can handle.

So, in my opinion, the bow and arrow are far too effective and accurate at the job they do. Maybe variability in the arrow, maybe a fletching skill. Maybe treating wood similar to drying meat in winter to make a higher quality arrow. ie, fine arrow, inferior arrow, ragged arrow, etc. Maybe breaking the string (cord?) on occasion from overuse/misuse.

Something like a javelin or spear should be harder to hit with, and only from a shorter distance, but should be far more lethal if it strikes the animal. Maybe the quality with which it was made could change the range from which it is still accurate to hit with. I have a hard time imagining a deer/elk traveling hardly any distance with a javelin sticking out of its hindquarter (but what do I know? I've never actually seen a game such as that hit with a javelin/spear, this is just my imagination/speculation).

I'll stop my rambling there, just putting my perspective on this situation out there.

Thats a lot of animals..

That however begs a question - what about predators? I think one of the main factors that lead to overcrowded forests nowadays is absence of good old wolfs, wolverines and lynx as they deemed a danger and very very strictly controlled. Please correct me if I am wrong on this.

That's accurate, the lack of true predators lets the animal numbers go out of the control. Even still, predators didn't keep their numbers so in check that sightings were 'rare'. I'd be shocked if someone had to go more than a mile without seeing some kind of game.

I don't know what the measurements are for each tile of the world map, but it seems as though there's miles and miles between game sightings.

If tiles are closer than that, the placement of villages on the map seems strange. I've had maps where 5 villages spawned in maybe a 7x7 grid just a few tiles from each other. At least in America, towns tend to be at least a few miles apart... which makes me believe each tile must represent more than at least a square mile. Otherwise the village spawns just don't make any sense to me.

If predators reduced animal numbers that severely, they'd have nothing to eat. Even wolves and the like have some natural control on themselves to not wipe out their own food source.

From what I understand, carnivores dont have a natural control on themselves to not wipe out their own food source. They eat what they can catch and breed correspondingly. Much like herbivores dont have a stop button - they will breed as much as they can unless kept in check ether by predators, natural elements or some other force.

Aside from the above, a hunter no matter how skilled.lucky he/she is will not find every single animal there is. In fact, I think (could be wrong on this one) that majority of the game simply hides. Ever tried to find a cat in the house if he doesnt want to be found? That is you KNOW there is a cat and the territory is not all that large, still it may take forever. Found it? Good, now scare the living *beep* out of that cat and try to find him again. Now apply same rules to the virgin forest and creatures who know the forest like the cat knows the house. You get the picture

Having said that, it would be very nice to have dens, watering holes and animal highways. From what I remember of the hunter stories (never hunted myself) that's where the hunter most probably will find his prize, or at least fresh tracks to stalk the prey.

One map tile is 100 metres * 100 metres. (2m * 2m when zoomed in). (I think it says it under the map screen)

- I'm not commenting on figures of animal density at this point. But generally speaking; improving simulation of wild animal populations is something we'd like to do. So please keep on posting your ideas, different views, opinions, facts and experiences. Even if we don't always comment on everything, we do read your feedback.

- the settlement icons you see on the world map are actually single (farm) houses. So, a "village" is exactly that cluster of houses packed close to each other in 7*7 tiles area or so. Maybe we should clarify this bit more in the game.

ps.

- Yup, it might be bit confusing as some measurements are in feet / inches, and some are in metres... Someday we'll harmonize them.

Ah ok that provides good clarification if they're simply farmsteads. Makes a lot more sense in that case.

You're right Dark Art, I suppose what I meant was that nature has checks and balances to keep carnivores from wiping out their own food source not so much the carnivores in and of themselves. Otherwise there would be no animals left.

I'd be able to accept the idea of the game 'hiding' if there were a search function for bushes/shrubs/trees etc. If one could flush them out of hiding, I'd be more willing to go along with it I think.

Edit: Now that I'm home and looking, I'm not sure how I ever missed the measurements. lol, my bad.

I'm sorry. I used to live there, too.

Actually, older/more primitive hunting techniques involve chasing an animal down, as a rather fit human has more long-range endurance than most four-legged critters.

They may move faster, but they get tired more easily.

1> Yes, run a certain distance when spooked, but in a short burst. See also: My above comment.

2> A couple of years ago I was at an outdoor shooting range with a friend. We were letting off rounds from my Mosin Nagant* and these three or four deer just kinda wandered out onto the range at about 125 yards and stood around, taking in the scenery.

They didn't seem the slightest bit worried by the loud booming, nor the bits of dirt jumping up from the ground a little ways above them.

We ended up moving over to the other side of the range, and the deer followed us over and stood behind THOSE targets

I have pictures somewhere and I'll see if I can find them if anyone really wants.

But yeah, deer are REALLY effing dumb.

*Anyone who's used one of these knows they are QUITE loud.

Isn't that what happens when an arrow breaks?

That's why we're here.

@AbNo

1. Eh, it's not so bad if you can avoid the locals like I can. I live across the Bay Bridge on the less populated eastern side of MD. 400 acre farm keeps most of the neighbors away, plus it's on a river. That being said, my ultimate dream is northern CA / coastal Oregon lol.

2. I saw that post and found it interesting as I was not aware of such techniques. I'm not aware of native American hunting techniques though, is that what you refer? I suppose in a European tradition I'd just assumed it was a 'lie in wait & ambush' technique. I'll admit, I've not spent much time studying the history of hunting.

3. I suppose I was under the impression that many hunters find a ground which the prey frequent and lie in wait. Possibly creep around but in a very small area. I always presumed the sound of something giving chase would give the deer cause to flee again. Chase -> flee -> chase -> flee. It's hard to sneak while chasing, but maybe I'm not nearly as dexterous and sneaky as my ancestors.

4. Guns are an odd hunting tool, to be honest. When the round is fired, it doesn't have a similar presence like the sound and visual sight of an arrow hitting a tree or rustling as it lands in a bush close to the animal's head. The gun is loud, fast, and over with very quickly with very little visual evidence for a deer to acknowledge. It's true the sound spooks some animals, but I guess I always thought the lack of a 'visual attack' kept the deer from reacting too much. Versus an arrow, which the deer can see when the missed shot lands someplace near it, therefore spooking it. I'm not a seasoned hunter though, so I can't really say with certainty. I'm going off evidence I've observed with deer. They seem to react to a visual presence too close that alarms them more so than any noise level, and especially if they've been desensitized to certain noises. They get desensitized to noises very easily in the years they've been around on my farm. Visually, they still get alarmed very easily.

5. Agreed, deer are some of the dumbest critters around. Makes for great food storage though. Venison makes great BBQ and jerky.

6. I'm sorry, I believe I don't get your meaning. I was referring the bow string breaking from misuse/overuse versus the breaking of an actual arrow. Sure, you can repair the string, but it would take several minutes, if not an hour or two if one has to make the proper cord. Not something that happens often mind you, but if you're firing 20 arrows from a crude bow in a very rapid sequence... I could see a string breaking. But certainly arrows breaking should be a feature in the game. Primitive and crude arrow couldn't have been much good after hitting a tree or two.

7. Indeed, guess that's what keeps a board active lol.

deer are proven idiots - my Dad got a wild hair once and decided to get a scope for his bow (I don't know was this a regular bow or his crossbow). he was testing it out over deer season on a buck who wandered into the backyard to munch on our apples, and so snuck behind the fence between the trees and swimming pool. he got off a few shots but it must have been a really poor scope as he never hit the deer that was only a few feet away (I think he was trying for a headshot?).

one arrow struck the ground right in front of the buck's nose, causing it to snort, sniff the feathered end, and return to its meal. at this point my Dad got fed up, marched in the house, got out his rifle, and returning to the pool fence shot the dumb animal. he said it never moved from under the apple tree from the time he spotted it to the time he shot it. and this is in an area where there are numerous active hunters.

deer think with their stomachs first, and their survival instinct second (unless it's the rut season).

I like the comments on fletching.
To a fully equipped and skilled iron age character, lowly populated finland would have been the garden of eden.
But its getting the equipment and developing the skills. That is the true nature of the game play of URW.
Its like the iron working discussion. How do you make it tough enough to be challenging-realistic- fun without making it frustrating-realistic-notfun.

I think a good abstract for this kind of thing is that you must use forraging to find good bow or arrow wood. Not just any wood.