If I recall correctly, the Genesis device didn't create a planet from just nothing. Either a dead planet or other space mass had to be used as a base to build upon. Such as basic building blocks of matter and energy. And yes, I know proto-matter was used in the Wrath of Khan movie. Keep in mind proto-matter is unstable, as was established in Search for Spock. Besides which, the Genesis planet in the 2 movies had been created from gases, matter and energy from the Mutara Nebula.

I doubt very seriously the Romulans would allow a Genesis device to fall into the wrong hands as it could be used against them. Selling such technology wouldn't be in their best interests, not even from a monetary standpoint. This just doesn’t strike me as being very ‘Star Trek’-like.

I understand my comments on this may upset some members. This is not my intention. I’m just thinking it would be a good idea that if we are going to change anything Trek, then there should be a disclaimer to that effect. Otherwise, it reads weird and less interesting to those who just read our board.

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I noticed this little tid-bit in post: “…..I was also hoping you'd loan me Sr. Chief Burgess for the shakedown as well, Sir."

Please use the chain of command. In the future run these things by the right characters. In this case you would talk to the Chief Engineer or Acting Chief Engineer. That IS who SCPO Burgess works for directly.

By the way, I could have sworn I posted something to the effect of Lt. Janis having been passed on information concerning Ens. Avakar’s situation while he sits in the Brig. It concerns me that issues like these aren’t getting addressed when they have such a huge impact on characters. And, yes, I know David has been unreachable. That doesn’t mean we should leave his character hanging.

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It would be great if my other characters in Engineering were acknowledged and utilized. Keep in mind they didn't leave with Seamus. In other words, please feel free to auto them as per our general guidelines for Player Characters. (ie. Don't make them do things they wouldn't normally do or make them act in a way that is out of character). Basically, if you are unsure how a certain character is played read up on that character's posts from past missions to get a feel for how they are played. If it's just something minor then keep it simple.

I would say that Lieutenant Deming is currently in charge of Engineering, Not Chief Burgess. Following that would be Ensign Harley Danson, especially since she was told to keep an eye on things by Seamus before he left.

I just think it would be a good idea not to bypass the established chain of command as we know it. Besides that, I would appreciate it a great deal since I'm currently able to at least read what's going on. I just don't have the extra time to be creative enough to write posts much. When I can write, I do. For the time being posts from me are just few and far between from me because of job related issues.

I do genuinely enjoy these posts Seamus, since it shows how much you care about the site and contribution to it. I do think you have a habit of looking at smaller details rather than the big picture. Below is a good example but I can see your point -

Try to remember this storyline has only just started. You know precious little about it so to anaylse it too deeply is a mistake. We've already pointed out that this Genesis device was built off plans of the original, we never said it was the exact same model. This will play out soon since the Voice dont have enough knowledge of it. All will be revealed. So you dont have enough information to really pick on these levels. The Romulan thing again, is it such a big deal? I mean, really? The Romulans always play people off against each other from the sidelines in shadowy ways . How do you know this isnt part of their plan?

For the record, its not but I'm just giving an example! ;)

What we're doing with both these cases is drawing on the tapestry of the Trek universe, rather than ignore it. I like it, everyone else likes it. I dont see it as a problem either. It's cute to mention the Romulans or Bajorans, to nod that all those characters are out there somewhere even if we dont deal with them directly.

Again, we're getting very picky here. The fact people are trying to (as with Genesis) touch upon all the great things you've brought to the sim is something to be commended, not picked on. No harm was done. Regarding Avakar, you may want to push this plot but we have nowhere to go. Az really isnt communicating to me where he wants to go with this and I'm reluctant to start drastically pushing his character into places he may not want to go but would be commited to follow through. I will eventually make a call on this since I wont wait around forever for Az but since he's a top bloke and fantastic poster, I'm giving him more scope. I try and do the same for all our regulars. That is why this is not being addressed and the character hanging - we dont have a right to drastically steer him in a direction he may not be comfortable with.

I dont believe anyone has used your characters in a drastic fashion or there's been any gross conduct on the above. It's been very lightweight, very broad and (for people like me), I wanted to acknowledge all the great characters you've written since I needed to go to Engineering for a post anyway. So why not pay tribute?

It was a good post Seamus and I know when you do these that its because you love the site and love what you do. Your enthusiasm is brilliant. But try not to get so hung on small details that you miss the big picture or the efforts of others. Regarding Genesis for example, how long have we built the homeless Marandan plot? Two....three years now? We're paying it off in a dramatic, character driven way that also pays homage to Trek lore. I think its a nice touch and we've been heading towards this a long time. When all this is done, things will be very differant with Star Trek: Liberator.

Stick with us, keep up your great work and enjoy :)

Since I was pointed out....I want to rebutt....

I don't know why Seamus (or anyone else for that matter) would hand off Security/Personnel matters for the Chief Helm Officer. Given who the character is, that should go straight to the First Officer since it's the XO's primary duty to deal with the crew. Dan isn't the first or even the second officer.

As for the chain of command....I'd already established Burgess (my own character) having worked on the ship. And, had the Captain wanted Mr. Burgess on the shakedown, then I'm sure he would have made sure there wasn't a more pressing reason for him to be aboard ship.

I think part of the issue here is that people feel everyone's characters are just that... our own characters. No one likes having their characters moved in a direction we don't want them to go. So, rather than risk overstepping that thin line, we move on with other characters that the players are available and able to respond. It's a normal part of this format of gaming. No one likes leaving a character behind, but, if the writer isn't there, then some people just don't feel comfortable moving that character, whether indirectly or not. Therefore, we move on. We're not ignoring them, merely putting them off to the side so we don't make mistakes with them and ruin their development and integrity as characters.

In the case for those of us who have many characters, people like you, me, and Cin, for instance, that can be a bit of an issue. I know I can get very frustrated when someone misplays one of my characters. It's also very frustrating for people who'd like to borrow them in a post because my characters are all so very different. Duo's a joker and very outgoing, while Kendra is extremely work-oriented and straight-laced. Yet, I've seen people put a few things in posts about Kendra that show her almost more like Duo. I can understand the confusion because, yes, she is my character, and yes, Duo is as well, but they're different. All my characters have very individual personalities. It makes things more challenging for me as a writer and more interesting for others as readers.

So, no, we're not ignoring the situation, just merely avoiding a potential problem later on by keeping the story temporarily sidelined until a workable conclusion can be developed. We don't want to mess up what anyone's done in the past with a character by miswriting something.

Dan... I believe there was some kind of answer to your question that was posted a while back. It was around the time you became a busy recluse if memory serves. It just seems that my steel trap memory (rusty though it is) doesn't recall what that answer had been.

Toward Jessi's line... look at the situation with David. I wish that boy would come back so we could write a resolution, but it's really hard to do that when he's not around. So in loo of making an answer up it gets dropped to be handled when he returns.

As for the scientific side of things... I am the last one to know and understand this stuff. I write and mostly pull that stuff out of my hat and pray it's within reason. I've never had that much inclination toward detail that Seamus and Dan do. I know both have sent me messages in the past to the effect of... hmm it doesn't quite work that way... and then set me straight.

Is this maybe stress or friction from writing together so long? Or more that we need to vent issues more often?

I'll be the first to admit I get frustrated at times when character posts get overlooked or missed or out right ignored. I fume a bit and then move on. Frell, half the time I want to see if Pete or Carlos will fly off the handle at Mally for some of her antics... only to get it glossed over because they don't know that I'm a deviant and would hope they'd act out...LOL. Just as I'm certian people are sick and tired of some of the stuff Mally does or sick of hearing about this and that from my characters.

It is how it goes in a game when everyone is busy. Those with time to post...do. Those who are busy post when they can.

Dunno if I've helped or hurt the issue.

@:^)

Well, I suppose I shouldn't expect everyone to understand the way a military organization works when it comes to a CO delegating authority. I for one, having served in the US Navy, have had experience in this. Senior officers aboard ship are given collateral duties outside their normal work when there is NOT a specific officer to handle them. Since the Liberator does not have a legal officer that can handle investigations, that duty would fall to the third in command (ie. Seamus). Since Dan Janis is next in the chain of command after Seamus this would fall to him in Seamus' absence. This would not fall to the XO because soon enough the XO would be bogged down with so much work concerning just the crew he wouldn't be able to function in any other capacity.

For this I distinctly recall Dan Janis ASKING the Captain for the use of SCPO Burgess. It had nothing to do with the Captain wanting Burgess on the shakedown. I seriously doubt Ensign Ro would have asked Picard if she could use an engineer to work on something. If anything she would have asked LaForge.


All in all I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree HOW a ship in a military organization is properly run with a limited number of specialized officers. It would make things much easier if we had a different character for each position but that isn't always possible.

And, Jessi, I agree with your take on how some characters can be auto-ed improperly.

Carlos, I suppose I don't have the whole picture. But anyone else that reads the board my come to the same conclusions, too. I'm just saying that maybe there should be a disclaimer at the beginning of an episode or possibly a sticky here in the Team Room that would indicate certain creative license is used in episodes we write.

Cin, I don't think you hurt anything by your post. If anything I think it helped.

I suppose my passion for good writing can get in the way of the fun here. For that I am truly sorry.

You dont need to apologise. As I said, the fact you love what you do drives you to these posts. I can appreciate that.

Just remember that we're all doing our best here and critques can be hurtful to people who put so much in. Your point about Genesis is valid though - dont worry, more will be revealed as we go along for this ep :)

The issue here, I think, is that there are those of us who are here merely for the enjoyment of writing regardless of accuracy, and some of us who find the accuracy part of the enjoyment. So, when those of us who aren't as concerned write something that isn't entirely accurate up front, those of us who want the accuracy get miffed and call it for what it is, which annoys those who aren't as picky.

I think what Dan's trying to say is that Janis is NOT in the Chain of Command for the entire ship. As of the launch of the Liberator, Annie is actually the character next down in line from Arman. She is the official Second Officer. Therefore, it wouldn't even fall to Seamus if it was going to the third in command, it would be going to her. She has a rank of Lieutenant Commander and is Bridge certified in order to be able to perform her duties properly. So, unless there's something that says things would go to someone right under her, then we've technically been playing it wrong by having Seamus look into it all and skipping past Annie.

It has nothing to do with the level of writing, as most of the people here are fairly literate. That's something I've always appreciated about writing with this group. Having been in many different RPGs and many different internet communities, I must say that the level of competency in our ability to express ourselves in an understandable manner far exceeds most of what else I've seen. Perhaps that's why I'm not so picky on the details, because I'm simply happy to have something to read that I don't have to mentally translate from bad language into well-written and understandable language.

Like I said, the relationship of enjoyability to level of accurate detail is different for all of us. I like something that's easy to read, easy to understand, doesn't go over my head, and doesn't bore me with unnecessary details. Some people want the scientific accuracies and measurements with fancy terms. Some people look for proper representation of a lifestyle or organizational structure. Others look for fun or just a creative outlet to keep their minds sharp and muses satisfied. All of us are here for different reasons. What matters is how we can work to satisfy all of us without driving others away with the level of technical detail or strict writing restrictions or lack of control over what's added to the story. All of us are going to have to step back and give some leeway on something. There is no way to make every single person that peruses this site happy, no matter how hard we try or how much we want to. It's just human nature that everyone has different tastes and desires.

Yeah...Ensign Ro wouldn't do that...but then again she wasn't a member of the Senior Staff either.

It boils down to this, Seamus. I'm not going to write your characters because I don't want to cause a problem when I inevitably write them incorrectly. And given the fact that you've been absent mostly, only popping by to throw up your own self-contained posts recently, I wasn't about to go getting involved with any of them. I'm sorry if that hurt your feelings.


And maybe this is something I would know better if I'd served in the Navy too....but where does it say that Harper is the Third in Command? I'm not saying he isn't.....but who said he was?

Sometimes you have to see the forest rather than the trees......

Sorry, Jessi and Dan. I misspoke on the ranking part. Seamus falls next in line under Annie. Then Dan would follow. (I'm uncertain who would be next because I never mapped it out beyond that.) That was established long ago and far away on the Endeavour. If you recall, Seamus was promoted to LT before Dan was. And keep in mind that I've had Seamus take charge in such a capacity in the past when Annie was unavailable. As you have done when necessary, as well.

Also, something like I described as a collateral duty would more than likely NOT fall on the Ship's Counselor. That would be an exception because of the primary role Ship's Counselors have.

Unfortunately, you seem to miss the point I was making when I brought up Ro. Since this particular subject seems to vex you so I am going to say for the last on the subject that we will just have to agree to disagree. Otherwise this can become very tedious. and I for one don't wish to detract from the main story.

As far as my "...own self-contained posts..." I explained my reasons for that LONG ago. I found your comment about this quite inappropriate. I was accepted in a job that may take my internet access from me very soon. If that's not enough reason I don't know what to tell you. I actually had something to say here at first but changed my mind. I don't think it wise to continue bickering.

Apparently there is no way to explain any of this without ruffling feathers so I think it wise to call a truce. I'll admit I tend to nit-pick and try to be as accurate as possible without going into techno-babble. Anyone else want to take a stab at an admission of some kind? This'll be good therapy for the group. :)

Hows about a big bear hug? Any takers?

Hi everybody! XD

Hello Doctor Nick!

@:^P

WAR! WAR I TELL YOU!!!!



lol

I'd really rather be a lover instead of a fighter... blood, guts and the likes are really hard on clothing... but then again so is chocolate and whipped cream...

LOL

Personally, I think the Genesis device idea is a great one. Nice nod to Trek history and it fits perfectly with the storyline that has built and built with the Marandans. As Jessi mentioned though, everyone on the site is different. I'm not one for details myself, although I do like the odd technical reference here and there. I know Carlos is a lot more on character and story development. We all have different ways of bringing our stuff to the site. Collectively its what has made us run for nearly four years. If we were all the same this place would end up pretty boring!!

On the subject of Az, we are in a dilemma on this one. Carlos has spoken to him in the past and he indicated he was coming back. He even wrote a thread to say so. Then nothing. As a long serving member and a valued one, we are trying to hold out for him. We did the same when Mike was busy since Omega is a very popular character that we didn't want to give up on. Same for Avakar. So for now, we're staying away until we make a proper decision. Its a sensible solution to me.

Petey