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Title: Patriots at Bengals, Week 4, 10-1-07


Time Out - September 26, 2007 01:19 PM (GMT)
If it's October 1st it must be time for the Pats to travel to Cincinnati. Even the score looks like a perfect one for this year's game.

Some factoids courtesy of Patriots.com:

Through three games, the offense has gained more yards than any other NFL team and their defense has allowed fewer yards than any other club.

The Pats have scored points in each of their twelve quarters of play this season and have scored in 31 consecutive quarters dating back to last season (including regular season and playoff games).

Since being shut out 21-0 against the Miami Dolphins on Dec. 10, 2006, the Patriots have scored in 35 of 36 quarters and have averaged 34.8 points per game in nine regular season and playoff contests.

They have won 10 of their last 11 regular season road games and four of their last five Monday night contests on the road.

They are 14-3 during the month of October since 2003.

slomo33 - September 26, 2007 05:43 PM (GMT)
I love the fact that they scored 38 in that game as well. They love 38

Craig - September 27, 2007 07:49 PM (GMT)

troy - September 27, 2007 08:01 PM (GMT)
Story says they're the first published photos, but I knew I saw one in the Post yesterday.

TN - September 27, 2007 08:11 PM (GMT)
have you guys noticed that randy moss stopped talking to the media earlier this month? was talking all summer, then put on his headphones one day and walked away from a female scribe who wanted to ask about his brilliance.

no big deal. i bring it up only because i've been reading a lot of randy moss stories this week with no randy moss quotes in them.

troy - September 27, 2007 08:14 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (TN @ Sep 27 2007, 03:11 PM)
have you guys noticed that randy moss stopped talking to the media earlier this month? was talking all summer, then put on his headphones one day and walked away from a female scribe who wanted to ask about his brilliance.

no big deal. i bring it up only because i've been reading a lot of randy moss stories this week with no randy moss quotes in them.

I just read my first story that made reference to that. I was surprised to learn I don't care. I really think I'm turning anti-media (in general) now, T. I found myself agreeing with a lot of what the OSU football coach was saying before I realized that I wrote a column or two in my time like the one that set him off.

TN - September 27, 2007 08:18 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (troy @ Sep 27 2007, 03:14 PM)
QUOTE (TN @ Sep 27 2007, 03:11 PM)
have you guys noticed that randy moss stopped talking to the media earlier this month? was talking all summer, then put on his headphones one day and walked away from a female scribe who wanted to ask about his brilliance.

no big deal. i bring it up only because i've been reading a lot of randy moss stories this week with no randy moss quotes in them.

I just read my first story that made reference to that. I was surprised to learn I don't care. I really think I'm turning anti-media (in general) now, T. I found myself agreeing with a lot of what the OSU football coach was saying before I realized that I wrote a column or two in my time like the one that set him off.

I'm in sync with you on this. I don't care if Moss talks to the media. I guess part of the reason is we are so inundated with information nowadays that one guy not talking doesn't matter anymore. Plus, most athletes just mouth platitudes anyway. If the good talkers, the people who actually have something to say, stopped talking, then the fans might miss the dialogue. But if Manny and Moss aren't talking, what are we missing?

Time Out - September 27, 2007 08:30 PM (GMT)
As if the Bengals defense wasn't going to be faced with enough of a challenge, now their offense takes a huge hit as RB Rudi Johnson has already been declared out for Monday's game with hamstring woes. Kenny Watson will be the likely replacment for Johnson.

Gummy - September 27, 2007 10:27 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (TN @ Sep 27 2007, 04:18 PM)
QUOTE (troy @ Sep 27 2007, 03:14 PM)
QUOTE (TN @ Sep 27 2007, 03:11 PM)
have you guys noticed that randy moss stopped talking to the media earlier this month? was talking all summer, then put on his headphones one day and walked away from a female scribe who wanted to ask about his brilliance.

no big deal. i bring it up only because i've been reading a lot of randy moss stories this week with no randy moss quotes in them.

I just read my first story that made reference to that. I was surprised to learn I don't care. I really think I'm turning anti-media (in general) now, T. I found myself agreeing with a lot of what the OSU football coach was saying before I realized that I wrote a column or two in my time like the one that set him off.

I'm in sync with you on this. I don't care if Moss talks to the media. I guess part of the reason is we are so inundated with information nowadays that one guy not talking doesn't matter anymore. Plus, most athletes just mouth platitudes anyway. If the good talkers, the people who actually have something to say, stopped talking, then the fans might miss the dialogue. But if Manny and Moss aren't talking, what are we missing?

Dr. Z wrote something the other day lamenting that things aren't the way they used to be and how media used to be considered a part of the team because the players needed them.

I think a lot of the issues the media have now are due to the fact the realization (whether they'll admit it publicly or not) that the leagues, particularly the NFL, don't need them anymore. It's probably closer to the other way around. That's why people are pissed about the NFL imposing the restrictions on video content. They're couching it in the stupid complaint about freedom of the press and all that, but really the issue is that the NFL now has the juice to control its message. It got ESPN to dump that football show a few years back, and has the networks that fight over broadcasting its product doing whatever it wants.

Because the networks need the NFL. As do the radio and TV stations locally, and print and online spots as well. It's not the other way around anymore. So when Moss isn't talking, anyone who complains about it from the media standpoint is just upset for the same reason they're upset that Belichick or Manny don't talk much. It makes their job more difficult. Except it really doesn't. They just want us to think it does.

Time Out - September 27, 2007 11:23 PM (GMT)
What ESPN football show are you talking about that was taken off the air? They air an awful lot of football programming, especially on Mondays.

Gummy - September 27, 2007 11:28 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Time Out @ Sep 27 2007, 07:23 PM)
What ESPN football show are you talking about that was taken off the air? They air an awful lot of football programming, especially on Mondays.

Don't remember the name of it. It was a dramatic series about a fictional pro football team.

Lots of inferences of steroids, homosexuality, etc. The NFL didn't approve so it lasted one season.

Danielle - September 27, 2007 11:50 PM (GMT)
Playmakers. I loved it.

troy - September 28, 2007 12:25 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Gummy @ Sep 27 2007, 05:27 PM)
QUOTE (TN @ Sep 27 2007, 04:18 PM)
QUOTE (troy @ Sep 27 2007, 03:14 PM)
QUOTE (TN @ Sep 27 2007, 03:11 PM)
have you guys noticed that randy moss stopped talking to the media earlier this month? was talking all summer, then put on his headphones one day and walked away from a female scribe who wanted to ask about his brilliance.

no big deal. i bring it up only because i've been reading a lot of randy moss stories this week with no randy moss quotes in them.

I just read my first story that made reference to that. I was surprised to learn I don't care. I really think I'm turning anti-media (in general) now, T. I found myself agreeing with a lot of what the OSU football coach was saying before I realized that I wrote a column or two in my time like the one that set him off.

I'm in sync with you on this. I don't care if Moss talks to the media. I guess part of the reason is we are so inundated with information nowadays that one guy not talking doesn't matter anymore. Plus, most athletes just mouth platitudes anyway. If the good talkers, the people who actually have something to say, stopped talking, then the fans might miss the dialogue. But if Manny and Moss aren't talking, what are we missing?

Dr. Z wrote something the other day lamenting that things aren't the way they used to be and how media used to be considered a part of the team because the players needed them.

I think a lot of the issues the media have now are due to the fact the realization (whether they'll admit it publicly or not) that the leagues, particularly the NFL, don't need them anymore. It's probably closer to the other way around. That's why people are pissed about the NFL imposing the restrictions on video content. They're couching it in the stupid complaint about freedom of the press and all that, but really the issue is that the NFL now has the juice to control its message. It got ESPN to dump that football show a few years back, and has the networks that fight over broadcasting its product doing whatever it wants.

Because the networks need the NFL. As do the radio and TV stations locally, and print and online spots as well. It's not the other way around anymore. So when Moss isn't talking, anyone who complains about it from the media standpoint is just upset for the same reason they're upset that Belichick or Manny don't talk much. It makes their job more difficult. Except it really doesn't. They just want us to think it does.

Nothing you said wasn't true until maybe the end there. Reporters should quote sources. A player not talking makes it harder to write a story as good.

But you seem unsympathetic on the whole to the media. And I think media members are justified in saying these players wouldn't be making fuck-you money without their (the media's) forbears. If our grandparents or parents didn't read and watch and get interested to the point where they raised their kids Sox fans and took them to Pats games, sports wouldn't be nearly as lucrative. It's not 100 percent dissimilar from the ex-players who have crappy pensions. Today's media aren't owed money, but maybe they're owed the same cooperation that former players, coaches, and owners were so eager to give, and that helped make the sports figures what they are.

Gummy - September 28, 2007 12:28 AM (GMT)
Why are they owed that if they didn't have anything to do with it? Maybe if everyone told them to screw, you'd have a point.

But there is a room full of people willing to cooperate and there are complaints about the 1 or 2 that aren't - well, that's just complaining for the sake of complaining as far as I'm concerned.


TN - September 28, 2007 03:15 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Gummy @ Sep 27 2007, 07:28 PM)
Why are they owed that if they didn't have anything to do with it? Maybe if everyone told them to screw, you'd have a point.

But there is a room full of people willing to cooperate and there are complaints about the 1 or 2 that aren't - well, that's just complaining for the sake of complaining as far as I'm concerned.

Dr. Z probably had it right. The game has changed so much and along with it the relationship between the players and writers. Now they are adversaries. Back in the good old days, the writers considered many of the players friends.

Dave Lapham was on EEI today and said something about how the game has changed since he played for $26,000 as a rookie. He said you go into the locker room today, players are talking about marketing themselves, getting commercials, getting air time on ESPN. they laugh at what he made in his day. Lapham tells them back, "I was damn proud to make what I made."

Gummy - September 28, 2007 07:10 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (TN @ Sep 27 2007, 11:15 PM)
QUOTE (Gummy @ Sep 27 2007, 07:28 PM)
Why are they owed that if they didn't have anything to do with it? Maybe if everyone told them to screw, you'd have a point.

But there is a room full of people willing to cooperate and there are complaints about the 1 or 2 that aren't - well, that's just complaining for the sake of complaining as far as I'm concerned.

Dr. Z probably had it right. The game has changed so much and along with it the relationship between the players and writers. Now they are adversaries. Back in the good old days, the writers considered many of the players friends.

Dave Lapham was on EEI today and said something about how the game has changed since he played for $26,000 as a rookie. He said you go into the locker room today, players are talking about marketing themselves, getting commercials, getting air time on ESPN. they laugh at what he made in his day. Lapham tells them back, "I was damn proud to make what I made."

I think the point is that the "good old days" weren't really that good for the players, just for the writers.

Now, the players don't need the writers. I'm not sure why that means a change for the worse for anyone but the writers. Or why we should hear about it or care about their plight. They have a job to do. Just do it.

TN - September 28, 2007 07:22 PM (GMT)
poisonally speaking, i never had a problem with athletes who stopped talking to me. my attitude was always "screw you" back. it was especially great if they had done nothing in the game. if they did something, i just asked someone else for a comment. get teammates talking about teammates. if the non-talking guy screwed up, i might go out of my way and get in the other locker room to have those guys analyze things for me.

my point is the same as gummy's. there's more than one way to skin a cat if you're a writer. more than one way to write a story.

one thing that bothers me about game story writers is they don't talk to the other side, or even use the mimeographed quotes. you look at the game stories on the newspaper websites next tuesday and see how many boston writers get comments from the other team's locker room. it's a lost art.

troy - September 28, 2007 07:28 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (TN @ Sep 28 2007, 02:22 PM)
poisonally speaking

What is this? Is this a thing now?

TN - September 28, 2007 07:52 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (troy @ Sep 28 2007, 02:28 PM)
QUOTE (TN @ Sep 28 2007, 02:22 PM)
poisonally speaking

What is this? Is this a thing now?

It's Brooklynese, in honor of the Mets' historic collapse this weekend.

T-Bone, how would you approach a Randy Moss story for next Tuesday's editions? If you were a sidebar writer for a Boston paper, what would you do?

troy - September 28, 2007 08:06 PM (GMT)
We're assuming he had a good game, right? If I didn't have any direction from above, I'd probably go the mindless route: Try for Moss (but no need for a 'declined comment'), get the useless quote from Belichick, the predictable quote from Brady, maybe a quote from another Pats receiver who had a good night, hoping they'd tell me that Moss frees them up, then go hit the opposing coach, DBs, etc.

If it were for Wednesday's paper, and I wanted to do something a little different, I'd probably talk to the Pats DBs who cover him for scout team. Or is that more of a Week 10 feature? :)

Don't know why, but your question reminds me of my most spectacular failure as a writer. I was covering some high school soccer playoff game in Jersey, and I came back and wrote a sidebar where I interviewed the goal, as in the the thing the goalie stands in. I had heard Montville did a column where he interviewed the Wall or something, and I think I later read something like that from Fitzgerald, too. Mine was just awful. I don't even remember if I ended up writing something else or it was too close to deadline and we just ran something from AP.

TN - September 28, 2007 08:41 PM (GMT)
we've all had some spectacular failures. i once wrote a mini-series parody of an old robert mitchum TV series called "the winds of war." howard cosell was one of my main characters. i was the only one who thought it funny.

as for moss, i would focus on him on every play, note who is covering him, and in what kind of coverages, then go talk to those defenders when the game is over. i'm not even sure the NFL gives access like that after games anymore. seems like only the key players come out for interviews. but i guess you can make a request, or hunt them down. would be a tough story to write on that deadline so i would save it for wednesday.

i just want to know from other players on other teams how good moss is. is he 80 percent of what he once was? maybe there's a player or two on the bengals who crossed paths with moss in his prime. he would be a good source. of course, if the pats win by 20 points, the other locker room might not be real forthcoming on the subject.

Joe - September 28, 2007 08:47 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (TN @ Sep 28 2007, 03:41 PM)
we've all had some spectacular failures. i once wrote a mini-series parody of an old robert mitchum TV series called "the winds of war." howard cosell was one of my main characters. i was the only one who thought it funny.

as for moss, i would focus on him on every play, note who is covering him, and in what kind of coverages, then go talk to those defenders when the game is over. i'm not even sure the NFL gives access like that after games anymore. seems like only the key players come out for interviews. but i guess you can make a request, or hunt them down. would be a tough story to write on that deadline so i would save it for wednesday.

i just want to know from other players on other teams how good moss is. is he 80 percent of what he once was? maybe there's a player or two on the bengals who crossed paths with moss in his prime. he would be a good source. of course, if the pats win by 20 points, the other locker room might not be real forthcoming on the subject.

Try tracking down Randall Cunningham. I'm pretty sure he was Moss' first QB and he might have some interesting insights in terms of what he sees regarding how Moss plays today compared with how he played 8-9 years ago.

TN - September 28, 2007 09:09 PM (GMT)
good idea. BB can call him in las vegas. i think that's where he ended up. went to college there back in the 1980s. younger brother of patriots' FB sam 'bam' cunningham of the 1970s fairbanks teams.

i'm just waiting to see when opposing defenses start to really try and jam randy coming off the line of scrimmage. that's a recipe for disaster if you miss, of course. but something has to be done. brady-to-moss has been too easy thus far. somebody has to take it away and let wes welker try to beat them.

-BB- - September 28, 2007 09:32 PM (GMT)
I actually used to see Cunningham quite a bit before he got called by Minnesota. His granite business was behind the company I worked for and our warehouses backed into each other. Randall was an all-american punter at UNLV. He had one of the strangest hitches of any NFL qb you'll ever see and was drafted more as an athlete than quarterback.

bastard lives in a gated community. I doubt they'd believe I'm on the landscape crew at the guard shack.

TN - September 28, 2007 10:40 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (-BB- @ Sep 28 2007, 04:32 PM)
I actually used to see Cunningham quite a bit before he got called by Minnesota.  His granite business was behind the company I worked for and our warehouses backed into each other.  Randall was an all-american punter at UNLV.  He had one of the strangest hitches of any NFL qb you'll ever see and was drafted more as an athlete than quarterback. 

bastard lives in a gated community.  I doubt they'd believe I'm on the landscape crew at the guard shack.

there was a time when he was the most exciting QB in the game, back with the iggles in the late 1980s. last of the throwback QBs who could run, throw and punt.

vince young is a modern version of randall. never seen him punt.

Jill D - September 28, 2007 11:05 PM (GMT)

troy - September 28, 2007 11:44 PM (GMT)
Don't they punish filers of frivolous lawsuits for crap like this? Wikipedia says "Because a frivolous defense or claim wastes the court's and the other parties' time, resources and legal fees, sanctions may be imposed by a court upon the party or the lawyer who presents the frivolous defense or claim. The law firm may also be sanctioned."

Gummy - September 29, 2007 02:31 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (troy @ Sep 28 2007, 07:44 PM)
Don't they punish filers of frivolous lawsuits for crap like this? Wikipedia says "Because a frivolous defense or claim wastes the court's and the other parties' time, resources and legal fees, sanctions may be imposed by a court upon the party or the lawyer who presents the frivolous defense or claim. The law firm may also be sanctioned."

That's a general rule. Each state's application of it is different.

This is a frivolous lawsuit I would think. Looks like these guys do it all the time though, so they don't seem to care, nor does their bar apparently.

-BB- - October 1, 2007 02:37 PM (GMT)
this is pretty good from CF, who is going to blog tonight's game:
QUOTE
I think I've got it figured out. Peter King is to Brett Favre what Scotty was to Dirk Diggler in "Boogie Nights." If he shows up at the Football Night in America studios at some point this season wearing a super-tight No. 4 Packers jersey and tearfully muttering, "I'm so stupid, I'm SUCH a loser," you know there's a pretty good chance Favre rejected his kiss.

Gummy - October 1, 2007 02:41 PM (GMT)
He's absolutely right.

King's manlove for Favre is over the top and disgraceful.

Time Out - October 1, 2007 09:42 PM (GMT)
ESPN's Teams at 20 report saying Maroney will be a game time decision tonight, but they're betting he'll play.

What exactly are they betting? I say if the Worldwide Leader is wrong they have to go off the air for three days to promote family togetherness. :lol:

Mike Reiss tells us that weather won't be a factor, and speaking of fakakta(?) guess what unis the Bengalis are wearing tonight? :rolleyes:

user posted image

Cincy is actually 3-0 lifetime wearing the pumpkin tops.

Enjoy the game, all...last-minute change in plans, I'm watching at a friend's house.

Think the Pats can keep their consecutive quarters scoring streak (31) going?

Jill D - October 1, 2007 11:13 PM (GMT)
ESPN is reporting that Laurence Maroney is inactive tonight with the groin strain.

Full list

-BB- - October 1, 2007 11:40 PM (GMT)
Mr. Maroney is on the cusp of having a reputation.

-BB- - October 2, 2007 01:47 AM (GMT)
that was the first mistake Brady's made this season that I can recall. I'm sure there must be on before but off hand.....

troy - October 2, 2007 01:50 AM (GMT)
Ridiculous. If Brady and Moss can do that anytime they want, the Patriots should never ever ever lose ever.

Jill D - October 2, 2007 01:52 AM (GMT)
Amazing throw and catch. Of course, being 6'5" doesn't hurt.

I really wish they (and everyone) would stop talking about 16-0. It's just ridiculous at this point in the season.

Beebs, that INT was maybe the second mistake Brady's made all season, I think it was his second pick.

-BB- - October 2, 2007 01:58 AM (GMT)
defense looks horrible right now. what happened to the pass rush?

troy - October 2, 2007 01:58 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Jill D @ Oct 1 2007, 08:52 PM)
I really wish they (and everyone) would stop talking about 16-0. It's just ridiculous at this point in the season.

I meant it more intangibly. Like, not 16-0, but more like infinity and 0.

Jill D - October 2, 2007 02:02 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (troy @ Oct 1 2007, 09:58 PM)
QUOTE (Jill D @ Oct 1 2007, 08:52 PM)
I really wish they (and everyone) would stop talking about 16-0. It's just ridiculous at this point in the season.

I meant it more intangibly. Like, not 16-0, but more like infinity and 0.

Not directed to you at all, troy. I agree with your point entirely. They are just making it look so easy. I was talking about the mediots, they just need something to talk about. Week 4 of the season is a little early to begin speculating, but that's what mediots do. :rolleyes:

Finally, a red zone defense without giving up a TD. Nice way to end the half, although I'd like to know where the defense was up to that point.


troy - October 2, 2007 02:06 AM (GMT)
Stu Scott = Brian Fellow. What'd he, knock him down and take his glasses?




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