OK, here are the two options heading into next season...
This is the league after moving retired and newly coached teams to C-Div, promoting teams up the ladder from B to A, and C to B to make room according to last season's standings:

OPTION 1
A
Chaos
Skaven
Necromantic
Chaos Dwarves
Orcs
Amazon
High Elves
Norse

B
Khemri
Halfling
Slann
Goblin
Vampire
Dwarf
Chaos Pact
Ogres

C
Wood Elves
Undead
Dark Elves
Lizzies
Human
Nurgle
Underworld
Pro Elves


AND using the model where no teams are promoted/relegated excepting the Division winners/losers of last season:

OPTION 2
A
Undead
Skaven
Necromantic
Chaos Dwarves
Orcs
Amazon
Wood Elves
Norse

B
Dark Elves
Halfling
Slann
Lizzies
Human
Dwarf
Chaos
High Elves

C
Khemri
Chaos Pact
Ogres
Goblin
Vampire
Nurgle
Underworld
Pro Elves

Regarding Option 1:
6th place in B would earn promotion to A
8th place in C would earn promotion to B
So under this plan, a last place team would be promoted

Not seeing the sense in that.

Yeah if I get put in Division A your doing it wrong.

6 to 4 What the flaming monkey? How does my team possibly deserve to be promoted? What the funk is going on hear??!!

That's why there's a vote, babee! ;)

Neither option is perfect, the vote reflects that. It's just a negative side effect or having to replace coaches after the season. Just no way around it.

You had a stellar season Honkie, don't sell yourself short. The race you were in for the 6th place promotion spot was riveting! EPIC.

What about the following as an idea. By putting rebooted Undead, Wood Elves, ans Humans (humans could also be Lizardmen or Dark Elves) in tier 2 poor preforming C division teams are not promoted. I also left dwarves in A over Chaos, since 1/1/5 in A is a stronger showing than 1/1/4 in B.

I thought this might make for a decent compromise and address some of the concerns. If a 3rd suggestion just complicates the issue just ignore it. I am personally fine with any set up.

OPTION 3

A
Dwarf
Skaven
Necromantic
Chaos Dwarves
Orcs
Amazon
High Elves
Norse

B
Chaos
Khemri
Halfling
Slann
Vampire
Wood Elves
Undead
Human

C
Dark Elves
Lizzies
Goblin
Nurgle
Underworld
Pro Elves
Chaos Pact
Ogres

No worries, but at least for rolling forward, we can leave this up until SmokingMonkee gets his team in.

If still a tie, Chance can break it however he sees fit.

What I'm most likely to do is something like Duder suggested - Majyk, Drew and I can look at the teams, promote/demote last seasons winners/losers, and then decide where the new teams should go. Put a little human reason in there and not just have a hard set rule.

In fact, Duder suggests putting new teams in the middle tier - moving forward, this may be a beautifully simple idea - let new teams find their own level, climbing or dropping at their own rate.

I do like it, as well, though I think it means we won't have enough room for the teams that would get bumped from B Div to A, that way.

I'll have to wait to get home to see how it brakes down with team playing around. If it works as you say, Chance, sure.


EDIT: Nope, it won't work. This last season is perfect for this because we have C-Div teams that have new coaches.

Escalating them to B-Div means two spaces would be left in C-League and a space would be missing in A-Div leading to 7 teams in A, 11 teams in B-Div, and C having a 6-team Div.

Fair enough, thanks for checking Majyk! Option I it is! New teams must start in the mail room and work their way up!

Maybe I can be the Michael J. Fox of the Highlander league. :D

Then again, given my chaotic play style...what's lower than a mail room clerk?

LOL! Love it!

OK, you heard it, folks - Option 1 for Season II!
Schedule being drafted and I hope to have it out by Friday, if possible!

Just posting the results of this for future ref: 15/24 = 63%
Better than Federal Elections! Nice!

Highlander League I: Season I Coaches...choose wisely!
OPTION 1!!!!! FORK!/TASTES GREAT! [ 8 ] [53.33%]
OPTION 2!!!!! SPOON!/LESS FILLING! [ 7 ] [46.67%]
Total Votes: 15

I have an argument against option 1 as it is (just ideas again, I will not be offended if they are not used).

By putting all the new teams in C the other teams are pushed up the ladder except the worst team of the top two divisions. So the Pro Elves are moved down to C with the 7 new teams. This pushes Chaos Pact up to B when they finished last in C. Why force the demotion of the Elves resulting in the promotion of Pact?

I would argue to forgo demotion, put the new teams in at the bottom, and then just slide everyone upward. Demotion would only be used in the case where room was needed for earned promotion. For example if no teams in A left the league, the bottom of A would have to give its spot to the top of B.

If we're moving 6th-8th place teams to another tier, we need to stop using the word "promotion". Effectively what we have is the re-naming of C-Level, it will now be called B.

In this odd universe we've created, I agree with Duder. Is going winless in the lowest tier a greater accomplishment than last place in mid-tier? The new setup clearly has nothing to do with performance-based promotion/demotion. Let's not pretend that it does.

I have no problem with this. It is WAY more important to make sure division winners get the promotion they earn every season and only doing demotion to make room for promotion.

Any set-up was going to be 'new' since we've never had to figure out what to do with new teams versus returning teams before. :)

And technically, it is still performance based because even a winless team suffered through the season whereas a brand new coach/team did not. Going 0-8 or whatever is more of a performance than 0-0. :)

The longer you stick with a team, the more likely you are to advance, at least some, since new teams are starting under you. This might encourage coaches to keep the Stunties for the long run, although we did not have any drop this season. It also gives new coaches/teams the chance to rise all the way to the top from the very bottom and requires a commitment of at least three seasons. Hopefully.

I hear you Beerox, the system will not be perfect. We probably will make tweaks again after this season plays out. I'm just not sure there is any perfect way to handle the Highlander system in a promotion-based league when we are constantly introducing new teams every season.

Just the way it is and we will do the best we can! :)

I say a tie defaults to the previous system - new teams enter the league in the division they were originally assigned, regardless of the new coach.

I think this is a good way to go. It preserves the intended promotion system for now.

Well, even though the Poll was for "Highlander League I: Season I Coaches", I am not above swing votes being counted, LOL.

I will say that I locked in changing my team from Undead because it was looking like Option 1 was the way it was heading and I'd get a chance to play...errr...Chance since he likewise was trading teams and would be going to C-Div.

I'll abide by this, and keep Nurgle for this season, if that seems to be the way these after-votes are finally being tallied but it should be noted that I was cutting off the vote once New Coaches were intro'd, I just never voiced this and likewise never posted the locked-in note I had earlier this morning.


In regards to "C-Div turning into/being a renamed B-Div", that is absolutely correct - Season I Coaches were being rewarded for not trading their teams and staying the course.
They are the builders of this League and we thought to give them more weight.


As Duder, mentions, however: "what about Pro Elves not getting the chance to bounce back up to B?"
This is because they are technically posted to the bottom of the Division due to their demotion - imaginary bottom as it may seem.
Following a season, they would track as having "0 C-Division points" was my reasoning(whether flawed or not, heh).

So, I have had a bit of a behind the scenes talk with Chance and we'll see what we sort out from this.
I just hope there are no further votes that may even be friends of friends ones, corrupting the whole process in the first place.
That would suck.

I didn't realize it was a season 1 coach vote. Sorry to mess up the process. Feel free to discount my vote.

I hope I'm not being the loud mouth new guy. Just trying to share ideas, take them for what their worth or feel free to disregard.

I also didn't know it was returning coaches only either.

Not a problem guys, we were not very clear. :) I think Majyk and I have worked it out.