!!! Lord of War !!!, CEO of Lockheed anyone?

I've been doing a lot of thinking about a new game based off my ideas pertaining to Government contracts proposed in the Car Company thread.

Instead of trying to incorporate the numerous and difficult to program ideas into one program, many of the ideas in that thread could be "tested" by creating a whole game that concentrates on only a few. Perhaps, in hopes, of it being incorperated or brought together at a later date into a cohesive whole.

One of these ideas that was discussed somewhat at length, was the idea of your car company bidding on Government contracts and designing weapon platforms, or certain space related contracts. If one were to slim that idea down, I could most certainly see a game that concentrates exclusively on military contracts.

IDEAS

1. All the usual stuff....employees, funding, research.

2. Instead of selling on an open market, which would be grosly unrealistic, you would be required in a set time limit of sorts, to come up with a working weapons platform for the Government whos contract you have accepted to participate in. In that contract you must abide by guidelines (Don't show them your plan for a battleship if you have a contract for a service rifle!), provide a prototype, and hope to hell that it beats out the competition!

3. It would be extremely neat if you were to recieve performance reports including casualties recieved, given etc etc, in future conflicts of the country that purchased from you. For example, Norway decides to get nasty about the soverinty of the Canadian North Atlantic and decides to stomp it's presence in an effort to claim land. The situation escalates, and the Canuckleheads kick arse and take names. (YES it is an alternate reality scenario! lol) The Canucks happened to have a contract with you and based on the quality and advancement of the Attack Helos they purchased from you, they kicked those Norwiegian blonde arses back to Europe! At least this is what the newspaper said anyways....

4. War is good business, and the more conflicts or higher tention in the world there is, the more contracts you recieve. (Again, no firm deal on any contract until you win.)

5. Options to sell to allies of the country that sealed a contract from you, giving a set ammount of years of excluisivity.

6. Performance of your weapons in the field have a direct effect on your future designs and sales. A built in reputation modifier would be easy to pull this off. Also effecting the ability to hire top talent, much akin to GB2.

7. Black-Ops programs that cost much to fund, and provide strange and random outcomes! Lets say that you just spent 5 billion trying to develop Guided rifle rounds.....whoops! You did end up with a half decent recipie for microwave popcorn though! It's been known to happen...cough, cough, starwarscough.....Damn throat is so ITCHY!

8. World Wars, small conflicts....decide to play a political role contrary to your regular Governments and provide black market weaponry to those pesky New Zealand terror groups! Darned Kiwi's strike AGAIN! Effects ability for future contracts and possibly fines.

9. Ability to specialize or diversify, with benefits and drawbacks towards each.

10. Ability to design units to cover every facet of warmaking....from leather grunt boots, to Jump Jets! Oh, and touching on the diversify/specialize thing, your products should also follow the same role. Do you make a specialized MBT (Main Battle Tank), or go for a jack of all trades type deal?

I dunno! Lots of stuff to touch upon!

What think ye oh mighty Forum?

Cheers!

(PS!!! In no way are any of the references to "Canuckleheads" and or "Norwiegian blondies"....mmmmm.....Norweigian blondes.....and for that matter, New Zealand terrorists, meant to offend anyone. I was merely trying to provide alternate possible scenarios that would effect gameplay! I am a proud "Canucklehead", so flame if ya like.....didn't mean to offend if I did!)

Anybody have a reply??

Seriously Unserious? You always have some sort of tacktful reply.....


Or is this a dead dog?


Cheers to anyone!

Actually, I meant to reply to this post, but other things came up and I forgot about it. Sorry .

Well better late than never. You have good ideas there but I can't think of anything to add to your ideas atm, your initial post was VERY thorough. That, I think, was one of the things that delayed me in replying to this, I wanted to think about this a while and see if anything came to the surface. Obviously, with that memory malfunction, that never happened.

Of course I also had a big Milan sized distraction too, which didn't help matters either.

Damn Milan stealing my thundah!

I think I have to simmer the amount of info posted with any of my ideas. Seems to be discouraging to anyone posting because of the fact that it happens to have a lot of crap in it, almost an overwhelmingly amount of crap! Also, the game proposed tends to be one that not everyone would have factual info on or real life experiences. That could also be a plus, encouraging creative ideas, but oh well.

Point noted....

I guess it's back to my short lived career of post whoring!

Cheers for the response Serious. Would love to hear your thoughts, if any.

Ok, I'll have to think on this for a while though, but if it goes on too long don't hesitate to post a reminder in here.

I've now thought of an idea for this.

Including a black market that could have huge profits, but also huge risks. If you get caught doing this you spend time in jail, get huge fines and lose a lot of points on your reputation rating.

The severity of these penalties could be determined by the severity of the infraction. For example, getting caught selling a few handguns to a local thug/gang would have less reprecussions than selling your latest tank to a mercenary, rebel or terrorist organization, and of course, get caught trying to distrbute something really bad like nukes and it's game over.

I'd like to drag this sucker up again after a LONG vacation from posting....Family issues (Isn't it always though?? lol).

I guess the most recent post for suggestions called "Weapons Trader" spured me on a bit to drag out a few of the possibilities that could be implimented in said game. I noticed that in the "Weapons Trader" post that a lot of folks might not see too much possibility in a game that would generally focus around trading weapons, with the amount of Drug/Lemonade/Ice Cream/Hooker trading games out there, but I implore you to check out the beginning of this thread. The game iteself might have a different general line of thinking than a simple "Buy low/Sell high" game, but I think that the scenario itself is a sound and rich environment to touch upon.

Also note that the recent garbage regarding military contracts in Iraq with Haliburton for example would be plenty of obtainable information for the regular "Joe" to impliment.

In other words, this game could be totally unique if approached as a Corporation game as opposed to a "Criminal" type game, as proposed in "Weapons Trader". Think of Lockheed/Martin in real world or even the olden goldie DOS game, Syndicate. Minus the tactical zombie/robot missions of course. (BTW, Syndicate I believe is now abandonware and can be found and booted up via DOSBox....check it out!)

Anyways, my 14 cents. Sorry for the long vacation from posting. I guess I'll be back more often now.

Cheers!

Seems good. But how about when you develop weapons you could customize their power, size, etc.

Eg. If you were designing an assault rifle you could choose the size of the rounds (Diameter and length), length of the barral, the types of matirials each section would be made of. You get the idea.

Also the weapon would have to be practical so if it would cost to much to produce, would be too heavy, or too slow, then it could turn people off.

Generaly good idea, but IMHO hard to implement. As corporate firm you are practicaly dependent on goverment (and thiers militayr budget) and her contracts.
If you look f.e. at research of F-22 - fom firs ideas, concept and firs drawningt to seral production-able plane it took nearly 25 years - firs reguest for plane come from 1988 after showing of su-27 and his performance in Paris Air-festival. designing of Ah-64 apache IIRC take cca 12 years.
Developing of new weapons is very long time run, with practicaly no certain future. Look at RAH-66 Comanche - it win competion for future attack helicopter, large-scale production have ben planed, generals are pleased with performance...but Cold war have ended, reducing military budgets, but research continue. But one day come Bin Ladin in place....and revievs of military project dediced no more RAH-66 is needed - terorist have no higt-tech AA or targets for whitch enviroment comanche is designed, with not another Great War theat is rising project is canceled...after spending milions of dolars.
Oh yes, no use for best attack helicopter on word.
And selling of weapons ? US practicaly forbids selling of high-tech stuff to other states, except closest allies (for others states its allow to sell lowered pefromance weapons), but Russians allowing selling of their high-tech weapons to others states (to secure another contracts). And rof booth are practicaly forbiden to sell legaly weponst to cetrain states (but this is done as "grey export" via weapons traders).
And to my experiences - I play game for big states to learn how to play (playing as big and easy winning becoma after certain time boring) , and as smaller nation for chalenge how much I good learner. And I fear this geme concept offer fun only as bis states player, beause small nations are practicaly forced to buy weapons from "big players" because they have practicaly no resources to fund developing of weapons (except small arms). And this make game practicaly unplayble as "small player".
Of course, you can sey, you can sell as smalll player weapont to other states - yes, but practicaly to africa, because all states defendting thiers home territory. And africa dont offer big revenues for small players, this is allowed only for big players.
For scenarios - f.e. forenamed Canada vs Norway - hmmm, its look like simple victory for C and certain los for N - it will be fun to play as certain victor or loser ?
But in battle of Falkland in 1982 between UK and Argentina - due to technology, resources and training is have ben practicaly certain win for UK - and they win. Argentina lost, but aftet battle expertises show one factor - Argenina have one but posibli decising advantage - proximity of main land. Distance of mother land for UK forcing them to carry supplies on supply ships - IIRC on 5 - and argenians sunk one of them, forcing brits to change battle pland of land operations. But if argtenise sunk 2 or 3 of supply ships, they will force UK to withdrow from F, because they will run out of supply meaining losing of war. But argenise dint reconized this and forcing on battle ships, sunking supply ship as wrong target (they thing it was war ship).
How to intehgrate this to game to prevent certain results before starting playing of scenario ?
Sorry if this sound if I killing you game.

And ideas of others ?

As one or two of you might know, I began work on a Game with this motif a couple of years ago; since abandoning it from perceived lack of interest I've seen alot of renewal on the concept. So much so I've dug up my old code (Ouch, I forgot I was that bad a coder) and began updating it these last few weeks.

Before stopping work on the orginal project, I intergrated alot of ideas from this thread into it; with my own brand of coding spice. So I'd like to revive this thread and see if anybody has any further thoughts on the subject? Likes, dislikes, new ideas and so forth.

You know I'm down with this stuff mate!

Cheers for bringing it back!

NEW IDEA(S)!!

1. I was thinking about the time frame previously mentioned by Czert. He has done a wonderful job at bringing out the problems with said game, and the feasibility of it. Now is the time to troubleshoot one of the ideas. With regards to the fact that developing a brand new F-22 Raptor takes decades for even the most advanced companies, there must be some sort of 'leveling' system implemented. Perhaps you can start your company at different time frames, for example, at the beginning of WW1. During this time you might concentrate on a new rifle design, or boot design through a contract with a given side. This would be the fertile groundwork for you to begin diversifying throughout the years. Much like modern defense contractors, they did not just start up making F-22s! They started small, and after many years they have been able to develop the infrastructure and resources to tackle a project like an F-22. So, in essence, as your company gains 'experience' and resources along with new world techs you will be able to develop more and more complex devices along with the staples that keep your bank accounts steady. (Note Diminishing Returns)

2. With regards to the idea that sinking enormous amounts of funds into a project that ends up being canceled due to political climates: I guess that's the risk your company would have to take. Big risk, but big payout. Of course you could still make webbing and boots instead, after all they will always need boots and bullets no matter what war is going on...or isn't!

3. Czert brings up the real world scenario of political entities restricting the sale of top secret weapons to other political entities it deems unsafe. I think this would add a level of 'spy game' actions to the entire game. I'm sure we never actually hear the whole story with regards to weapons dealings, and it would be interesting to delve into that whole 'Black Market' idea! Do you play it safe and patriotic? Or do you work under the table with a poker face up front, at risk of getting caught? Perhaps we could throw in morality conundrums. For example: You are a contractor in the USA. USA forbids selling to South Africa. They forbid this because they do not like the democratically elected President and would rather have their own dictator in place. You like what the President is doing for the people and world safety on the whole, and dislike the pushy politics of USA. So, you decide to supply the President of South Africa with boots and bullets to fight off attempted coups from the evil Dictators party. Do you risk it? Or stand firm, with the possibility of fines and foreclosure?

4. Zeppelin brings up the idea of customizing the certain elements of the goods that you would produce. In essence he would like to brand his product. This is an AWESOME idea and reminds me of the old geo-political sim called Superpower. I recon that we would need some sort of 'generation' leveling, with sub statistics that fine tune. For example: You produce a rifle. The rifle is a generation 2. It's other statistics are quite low, BUT because it is a generation 2 rifle it would be on par with a generation 1 rifle with superb statistics. Why? Because it's the difference between a musket, and a rifled barrel. BIG difference. So this give you the option of working on developing a better current generation, or spending the big bucks to make a breakthrough towards the next big thing.

Neobros! I know that all the ideas rattled off have been a lot to squeeze into a game, but what say you? What have you been able to implement, and what things do you want to do but don't think can be done? Perhaps we can all find an easy compromise!

Cheers!
(BTW, this marks my return to HUGE ASSED posts! Thought you all might like!! Tehe!)

Thanks Harken for your continued contributions :-) I'd love to intergrate all of the ideas from the whole thread into the game in one form or another, but sadly, and against my best efforts, I'm still mortal. And so after implementing some of my more basic aims I think the game truly needs I'll begin working on some of the more "Out-there" and technically difficult to achieve ideas to the best of my abilities.

The more fundemental components I've been working towards so far include:

An extensive and diverse technology tree; encumpassing actual technology, historical technology and theoretical technology ranging from the early 1900s to the hypothetical future.

A customisation system to implement technology into actual products; allowing the user to combine several branches of research into a single Weapon, that should allow for an extreamly diverse and unrestricted product line for people to play about with. This will also solve the decades to develop single advanced equipment problem mentioned.

An advanced Corporate-Political interaction system, that I hope will beable to encompass all the players needs for such a climate; from random positive and negative events effecting both your company and the world, to possibilities of directly effecting the world climate to favor your outcome. This will also include a "Shadey Dealings" system I've yet to fully conceive of.

An real-time UI, allowing a god-view play-style more akin to "UFO - Enemy Unknown" than a normal turn-by-turn business sim.

I must stress that these are purely fundemental elements, I have alot more I wish to try and implement before release, providing my reach stays within my grasp; and a few already finished surprises I wish to keep under wraps before release.

Needless to say this will take some time to develop, and some elements may fall drastically short of my ambitions. But in the meantime any further contributions by any one would be greatly appreciated :-)

Just as an update; the Game's shaping up nicely. Many of the more technically difficult things I've been trying to achieve are nearly finished; and I should have a preview ready in a month or two.

If anybody has any further ideas to add, or amendments to other ideas in this topic; now would be the time to speak up so I can look at adding them in.

Sorry for not writing with some ideas for a while, Neobros. I've had a few technical difficulties with my computer and even missed out on giving a complete review for Geopolitical Simulator over in the Video Games section!

I'm glad to hear that the Game is coming along nicely, and can't wait to see some pics or a dossier of features, present and future! I'll try to think of anything else that might contribute to the success of your project!

Cheers!

I'm looking forward to this!

I was thinking for funds, you could be a small-arms dealer and help out various conflicts/groups to raise cash for reaserch.

An idea I thought of after playing through MGS4. I know it sounds wierd but it isn't. Anyways how about instead of just developing weapons you could also create a PMC to assist in conflicts. You could choose what equipment they carry ranging from guns, to armour, to camoflauge, and even smaller things like helmets and boots. You could also purchase different vehicles to use in your PMC such as APC's, choppers, boats, etc.

Another thing that should be included is an ingame world. What I mean is that depending on the current world situation your sales would increase or decrease. If there's a world war then your sales will skyrocket due to the constant demand for guns, munitions, and equipment. But if the world is at peace or only has very minor conflicts going on then your sales would drop.

I'll try to come up with some ideas for the weapon customization system since I feel this could be the thing that could turn a good game into an amazing game.

I like the idea of a PMC (Private military company); actually the mechanism's already in the game for rigging up soldier packages, so you can sell entire soldier kits aswell as single item lines; it would be a (Relativity) simple matter of altering that slightly to encompass a PMC.

The code's already built for a world stage system; currently integrated with 165 countries all running with a complex interaction system. Plus a few more surprises in that area I'm keeping up my sleeve untill after the Alpha release. From the off I realised the World stage system had to be one of my primary focuses on this project.

I certainly agree with you about weapon customization; I plan to make it a very key part of the playing experience. Although I haven't written that code yet, so I'd love any input regarding it.

Can I be a better tester, please? 8)

The PMC idea sounds good, although I think it would be intresting if you based your base/head of operations in Brazil and helped the opponents of the US, like in Iraq.

Brazil because it's heard to find you in there.