How Wide Do You Run Your Savage Orc Big'uns?

I'll be running blocks of 20-30 depending on game size. Mine are tooled with AHW and will prob have a SO Shaman with them in larger games.
I wonder how wide you boyz run them and why. Thanks.

at 2500 I always run 38 or 39 (depending when I need to cut a few pts) with a Lv4 Savage Orc Great Shaman with Lucky Shrunken Head.

Expensive.

Deadly.

And if teleport spell is rolled: Mad fun.

Horde-wide all the time~

WAAAAGH

This post has been edited by Silver on Aug 18 2012, 08:41 PM

I'm with Silver here - I run 38 + BSB + Shaman in Horde, and point them at anything that needs slaying.

I run mine 37 strong, Full Command, With my Orc Warboss (Striking blade, Enchanted shield, amulet of preservation, crown of command) on a War Boar and my lvl 4 Savage orc Great shaman (Shrunk head, Shrieking blade, obsidian amulet)

And I dont make em big uns.

So many attacks, so many points, so much fun! Frenzy, cause fear, 5+ ward, Stubborn 9, MR2!!! And even at Str 3 after the first round of combat they just eat everything alive.

Actually stole this tactic from a friend of mine that plays a large brick of Dark Elf Witch elves. With so many Str 3 attacks you will beat just about anyone in a knock out drag out fight.

While my opponent is into my Savage horde I send my Chariots and/or Black orcs, and/or Orc boy big uns into the flanks and let Combat res do the rest.

I absolutely LOVE my brick of savage orcs.

4+ ward, right?
Still one in two chances the cannon will remove your Warboss as you get no "look out, sir" with that Boar.
MR2 isn't all that...
Okay sure against Lore of Death sniper spells its good, making your Shaman 3+ ward against spell dmg that can be saved (and 2+ on your warboss).

The one time I had 2+ ward against Death I rolled 2 ones for my saves, ]:

Anyway, Big'uns takes under 80 pts for that many savage orcs. If you don't have other big'uns, its definitely worth it. A small price to pay for a good return. S5 first turn will see you mow down elves and cut chew out T4 troops better. I run mine with no banner, no champion. Just my Great Shaman, Musician and Big'uns upgrade.

This post has been edited by Silver on Aug 19 2012, 12:48 AM

I run mine 10 wide 4 deep. Lately just trying to use them without characters. Last tournament, exactly 1 savage orc died all tourney.

We had a funny scenario where we were allowed to boost every stat on one unit's statline by 1 (including wounds lol). Anyhow, my boosted savages slammed into my opponent's normal 50 large balck orc unit and wiped them out before they could attack back .

MR 2 is worth its weight in gold in the SO unit and I'll tel lya why

It gives me a 3+ ward for the unit when it comes to magical spells (For the spells that allow saves anyway) The great part about it is that when my opponent uses, lets say the Ruby ring of ruin or some sort of magic missile on the unit I dont have to waste dispell dice on stopping the spell. Curse of years is particualrly nice to be able to ignore and I run into a fair share of VC players. I dont see it so much as protecting the unit but as protecting my dispell dice so that I can save them to stop the spells that NEED to be stopped, like Purple sun or pit of shades. And you've already brought up the VERY popular Lore of Death.

As for the lord on a warboar, yea your absolutely right, 50% chance a template weapon is gonna cream the guy. So far I've been lucky and the templates have either gone awry or I've made my saves. I have no doubt I'll eat it one day when its important, but for a 2+ 4+ I find it invaluable for him and is worth the gamble.

Besides, Gambling is a huge part of playing Orcs and Goblins isnt it? lol! I'm just going with the theme. Plus my Lord looks cooler on a warboar.

As for biguns, honestly its just too many points in one basket for my taste. My list consists of a unit of 24 Orc Boy big uns, a unit of 7X4 (28 strong) Black orcs, a Arachnarok Spider, 3 goblin chariots, 2 manglers, and a doom diver. If I were to put around 80 more points into my SO unit I'm looking at almost 1000 points into one unit (If you total in characters) Which would make it a tough nut to crack sure, but its already really really expensive and I try to spread out my points a bit. Keeping them regular orcs is the best way for me to do that.

Besides, keeping the Orc Boys as Big uns lets them take the flaming attcks banner which is great for hydras, corpse carts, trolls, and anything else that rely on Regen to keep them in the fight. My Boys hit a unit of 6 trolls once on an unsuspecting WoC player. killed 3 flat out and put some wounds on the next one, that silly little banner in a unit most people would leave weak earned me that combat and proably the game as my opponent never really recovered from the loss. (Although his brick of chosen certainly tried!)

Maybe if SO's could take a magic banner if they were biguns or if it was only 1 extra point a model, but as it sits now, the way I play, I cant justify the almost 1000 point price tag on the unit, just too much for my comfort level.

Anyway I'm rambleing

To be blunt, I don't see how a non-Big 'Un unit of Savages is all that good. +1 WS and +1S makes a truly massive difference as to what things they can take on and win, and you have all of the same weaknesses the Big 'Un unit has (more, if you consider that your troopers are wimpier). If you need to trim the price tag on the unit, take some characters out of it. The Warboss, for example, can be literally anywhere else in the army, or be removed from it altogether - SOBU's don't need Stubborn, because they don't lose.

This post has been edited by rothgar13 on Aug 19 2012, 04:51 PM

And the things that savages do lose to, you should still have steadfast for a bit, so you'll be stubborn anyway.

Also that orc warboss setup is 239pts, for 2+ armor and 4+ ward, while a savage orc warboss in that unit with the 2+ armor(5+ ward cause of shrunken head) and GW is 201pts. That saves half the points toward making them big'uns right there.

Smaller units of normal savages are pretty neat. Lots of attacks from the front, and S4/T4 is good. Pretty damn cheap too. Sizes of 10-12 are optimal.

Naw, I really like the way the army plays even with the Savage orcs not being big uns. Sure the +1 WS and S would be nice, but taking the Big uns off my Boys and losing the flaming attacks would hurt my list more than anything having the savage orcs beefed up would bring me.

Also, the unit of boys without Big uns would really be useless. No flaming attacks. 1 attack each, WS 3. They arent worth taking and the way I have my list set up I cant afford not to have every unit viable.

Now I understand WHY you think an non big un horde brick of savage orcs wouldnt be worth it, but I dont think you understand how I play my list (Understandable unless your stalking me... which would be uncomfortable). With around 28 attacks comming from the orcs alone, plus another 5 from the War boss and his boar your looking at a ton of attacks usually going after non-horde bricks. With horde bricks you get your full 50+ attacks! So even if you take 10 wounds from a high ini enemy your sitting pretty. Even at STR 3 your going to be putting down as much, if not more, of the opponent. Brick vs brick, unless its chaos warriors, or a horde of Ironguts, your Savage orc horde is going to do quite well. Throw in there a lucky Ere we go and/or Gork'll fix it and you've prety much won the combat even if you flub the initial roll.

Now the stubborn, Your opponenet is going to see a huge brick of savage orcs with extra hand weapons, see the warboss and the savage orc shaman in the brick and reasonably determine that its a crap ton of attacks, 5+ ward, and prolly a killy lord on the boar. He's going to throw magic at it and discover the 3+ ward, he's going to shoot at it leaving my chariots, Manglers, and other 2 bricks alone to sneak up his flanks and deal with his chaff. When he slams into the unit, well a good oppoennt isnt going to send just one brick into them... and if he does, well it doesnt matter if their bigguns or not, your opponent is a fool and you had him the minute you began placeing units. So now your unit is slammed into by a semi-desperate opponent, if your any good you've gotten at least a couple units ready to flank charge your opponent's charge and the stubborn 9 Warboss ensures you'll get the oppurtunity, even if you lose the combat by 1,000! (Although that would suck)

Having a surprise in each combat brick of infantry really helps keep your opponent off center. Which is a HUGE part of the game. The savage orcs are a given when you see em, especially when you see 2 lords get placed into the unit. MR2, Cause fear, Frenzy, and stubborn 9 are head exploders which is why I'm happy with the current kit out. The 24X brick of Orc Boy big uns with the flaming banner is great to take care of anything that regenerates. Trolls, Abominations, Plaguebeareres, Send em in and take em down. Usually your opponent doesnt think about the possiblity of that banner in the unit until their rengerators are piles of ash. My black orcs are simply LD 9 but with the Armed to the Teef rule its always nice to have a unit that can stike at STR 7 for those pesky monsters everyone has running around these days.

And of course the arachnarok spider has the venom surge. >:D Couple that with 2 mangler squigs, and 3 goblin chariots running around with a doom diver killing off their high AS units and you have an opponent with blood comming out of his ears. lol!

So yea, for the way YOU play your lists having the horde of Savage orcs NOT be big uns would be a terrible idea. The way I play mine, its pretty much mandatory they aren't.

Hope this helps, if not... WHERE DO YOU PLAY!? I'll swing by and after I beat you you can buy me a soda. lol! (jk jk jk)

Here's the thing, though - there are blocks that can take on WS3/S4/T4 and beat them down. Chaos Warriors and Ogres immediately spring to mind, but even Saurus Warriors or Beastmen Gors with a Beast Banner BSB will rock that unit's world if it's a 1-on-1. I think you're really underestimating how inconsequential S3 is against certain flavors of foes, especially given that both those armies have a Magic phase that chews O&G up and spits them out. I can provide mathematical evidence toward this if you like.

Black Orcs have my Flaming Banner. 21, Mus, Banner.
They chewed a Steam Tank on the flank. S7 on the first turn is brutal to the T6 Steam Tank, 10W 1+ armor save? Pfft. Black Orcs have tasted 'arder steam.

So I take Savage big'uns and use 1 block of NG netters near them as deterrent for unwanted foes - charge my big'uns, then I come in and most likely add -1S to my enemy.

I used to run common Boyz as big'uns before building savage models ;D

This post has been edited by Silver on Aug 20 2012, 05:38 AM

I have recently faced an opponent who used multiple small units of Savages, like 10 og 12 in each unit.

It was at a tournament, and he did surprisingly well, at least until people got over the initial surprise and began taking early countermeasures. I guess he won 2/3 of his battles at that time.

When I field Savages, I use Big 'Uns, Add Hand Weapon and the Shrunken Head Shaman. I go with 30, six wide, as that are the models I have, WITH proxies (old style individual metal figures, that looks vaquely savage, or something). If Savages werent so iffing expensive, I'd have bought a ton of them by now.

Still, 30 guys, six wide, does wonders, and I am quite happy with them.

I don't go with a flaming banner. I risk it.

I've gone without Big Uns on my Savages, but they just under perform so bad. It's a huge difference to make them Big Uns that I tried it once and haven't looked back.

I tend not to like all my eggs in one basket. I don't like to put my BSB in the SOBU and I don't like to go too big with the unit. I go for a nice sized unit of 29 that goes 6 wide. I put my lvl 4 in there, too.

I do like going with the MR 1 trinket. It does help on those times when spells are cast. I recall my opponent giving up on Flame Cage on those guys! I had points left over after standard build and it fits in great.