Savage Orc Big Un's As Hoard?

I'm seeing a lot of people with 35+ Sav Orc Big Un's. Is it best to use these as a hoard?

If you include the shaman with shrunken head this is our toughest unit....and definately the killiest one (with add. hw).

to horde or not to horde depends a bit on the enemy, but in general the killier you are the wider your frontage can be.

The advantage of putting them in horde formation is that the shaman with the shrunken head can be in one corner, so he can avoid a bit the combat. Of course with an horde you will be a killing machine, but an horde with big base as orcs have and frenzy, makes it a bit hard to maneuver with a smart opponent.

ive run that unit with the shrunken head as a horde of 35-40...

when it gets into combat then it will tear up whatever it touches. The problem is that it will get focused on a lot with magic/shooting/avoidence. I recently started running a unit of the same size with a bsb as the only character in the unit. Ranked em up 7 wide and the destruction is still incredible. Plus you get rank bonuses and most times steadfast even if lost combat!!

Try out the 7 wide with BSB and throw the wizard in a bunker behind it.

Cheers!!

I usually go 27 and not in horde, but 6 wide. I haven't tried running them as a Horde.

I typically run this unit 6X6 but then when I need to blow through a unit (such as Skaven Slaves or SpearElves) I do reform into horde formation so that I can maximise my attacks and chomp through the unit I'm fighting that much faster.

A unit of Wolf Riders behind the combat works nicely to limit the amount they overrun after combat as well

40 in Horde formation (once you include the Orc Great Shaman and Blorc BSB), all day, every day for me. It's the most consistently useful unit in my army by a long shot.

Absolutely the best unit we have access to.

You do have to worry about enemy chaff trying to force a bad overrun, but just clear it out with you own chaff or block the would be counter attack unit and then it doesn't matter.

In the end you are paying for frenzy and the last thing you want is to lose combat and lose the extra attack. Getting all the attacks you can, which also gets the most from the big un upgrades, prevents this and ensures you will keep winning combats.

This post has been edited by Malorian on Aug 1 2012, 04:22 PM

Do keep in mind that a horde is big and fat and unwieldy. While it's tempting to go horde to make the most out of your extra attacks, it also means the unit is too big to make any swift maneuvers and with 25mm bases you will take up a whole lot of space.

Going 6-7 wide means you still get a lot of attacks, more ranks and becoming a unit more easy to maneuver with.

This post has been edited by Squigkikka on Aug 1 2012, 10:18 PM

"unwieldy" is a term I hear thrown around a lot by people who don't like hordes, however I have been running them (several in a list) since the start of 8th and have had no problem.

Unless you are playing with a serious amount of impassable terrain, and have played the deployment phase correctly, you should need to do little more than move up and engage.

For orcs (who have hand of gork) this is even less fo a problem.


Going 7 wide means you have 19 less attacks, maybe 1 more rank, and seriously isn't all that more maneuverable.

This post has been edited by Malorian on Aug 1 2012, 10:20 PM

Unless you play by some odd house rules how can you know how much, or what kind of, terrain you will see on the battlefield?

Hordes can be awesome but a horde that has to overrun, is not all that great.

Better to use Blorcs if you want to go horde, no animosity and no frenzy.

If you put on terrain by the book then you are looking at an average of 7 pieces of terrain, most of which are no impassible, and since you alternate placing them you can put the worst of it on the flanks where it doesn't matter.

Anything that has to overrun, no matter what, isn't a good thing. The trick is to clear out enemy chaff with your own so when you overrun it's because you just wiped out the opponent's key stone unit.

I agree black orcs are another great unit to horde.

Placing terrain may not be your biggest problem, some of the standard scenarios may ruin the placement of your SO horde.

Also if you spend a lot of points on big units, your own chaff will suffer due to fire from opponent, or better or more chaff On the other side of the table.

Just saying - and Blorcs are more reliable.

Dawn attack can be a pain, but that's true for everything. Should we not take a general because it may be stuck on a flank?

Again, I saw orcs and goblins fear dawn attack less than most thanks to hand of gork correcting our deployment.

A horde runs you 400-600 points. This means you can easily run 3, your characters, and have plenty of room for chaff.


Here is a list I ran recently:

Orc warboss w/ sword of bloodshed, potion of strength, charm shield
Lvl 4 orc great shaman w/ dispel scroll

Night goblin big boss BSB
Night goblin big boss w/ great weapon
Night goblin big boss w/ great weapon
Night goblin big boss w/ great weapon

40 big un savage orcs w/ extra choppa, banner
49 night goblins w/ spears, banner, nets
20 night goblin archer w/ banner

40 black orcs w/ banner, flaming banner
2 spear chukkas
2 spear chukkas
Wolf chariot
Wolf chariot

Doom diver
Doom diver
Stone troll*

Total: 2249

*stone troll is there rather than a plain troll since you got a point for having a unit no one else did

As you can see I have two hordes and another major combat block, the chariot and troll to chase away chaff, not to mention the warmachines to do it too.


Here is another example:

Lvl 4 orc great shaman w/ dispel scroll

Night goblin big boss BSB w/ banner of discipline
Night goblin big boss w/ great weapon
Night goblin big boss w/ great weapon
Night goblin big boss w/ great weapon

40 savage orc big uns w/ extra choppa, banner
89 night goblins w/ spears, banner, nets
20 night goblin archers
5 wolf riders w/ shields, spears
5 wolf riders w/ shields, spears

40 black orcs w/ banner, flaming banner
40 squigs and 15 handlers
Troll

Total: 2249

Now we have 4 hordes and all we need to clear away chaff. Remember that the big bosses can charge out too if needed, and the longer you stay back the longer you can rain down foot of gork

That's because the people you've been playing haven't been very good then, or it is because they play justl ike you and only tool up on hordes (sometimes the two are the same). When I meet an army containing a huge savage orc block deployed in a horde, I'm thankful because I know that the savage orcs will never see combat. They are piss easy to lead away from the game due to their frenzy.

I have no idea why you would think that. Your armies do not have more than 7-8 drops, my armies has 11-12. How do you expect to outdeploy me? You can't. The only reason you can "move up and engage" is because your opponent are equally sold on the idea that you can only fight with hordes, and thus they have a similarily low amount of deploys- and the exact same wish to just shove that dung forward.

Only the doom divers in your list 1 can deal with chaff, nothing else can. You see, to succesfully "deal" with chaff you need to kill it off before it even reaches your savage orcs in order to delay and divert.

List 2 has no good means of dealing with chaff whatsoever. 2x5 Wolf riders and Night Goblins with bows do not quite cut it, so the idea to "simply clear away chaff" is just positive thinking and that isn't enough to kill anything.

This post has been edited by Squigkikka on Aug 2 2012, 12:40 AM