Best / Worst Match Ups For O&g

So what armies or play styles are the hardest for O&G to counter and why, similarly what are our most favourable match ups?

In my opinion vampire counts are one of the hardest as we have poor access ro magical & flaming attacks and nothing that can go toe to toe with a tooled up vampire.
Not sure about best match up though

*Twitch* Skavennnn! *Twitch*.

Theo

I've played a lot of the new Empire and done well. Maybe because it's new and people are finding their balance with it. I dunno...

I haven't lost to Tomb Kings yet. That's good.

I haven't played Beastmen in a while, but I have always done well against them. I don't play them often, though.

I've found armies that try to go MSU or with lots of chaff don't do as well against us as we can out chaff them. I played Lizardmen this weekend and did crazy well. He had a lot of chaff units and only one big combat block. My war machines killed his 2 Stegs early, too. So, there wasn't much he could do.

A local Ogre player says that OnG are tough to play against as we have all the tools to beat Ogres. I've yet to play an Ogre list, though.

I still haven't fought the new VC, but they have always been hard.

Chaos Warriors can be hard with double War Altars.

Anyone with Shadow Magic is tough!

Dark Elves are still pretty nasty. I can't wait to they get hit with the nerf stick.

The worst matchups in my experience are Skaven, VC and uh... maybe Ogres? Yeah, I think Ogres is one hell of a tough nut to crack.

Best matchups... probably High Elves, Brettonia? Doom Divers eat up knights like nothing and there's so much T3 stuff in High Elves that a lot of our S5 troops like.

Mind you I only play with Goblins so my view is a bit skewed.

I thought Daemons of Chaos were hard? But yeah, Brets and High Elves - push overs...

I haven't had that many problems with VC.

Armies that I have found manageable:
- HE
- WE
- VC
- TK
- DW
- EM
- LM

Armies that I have a real hard time cracking:
- Daemons (surprise!)

These are the only armies I have faced so far. I don't find that any army is a walk over, not even WE. A good player can always challenge me with any of those armies, but my problems with the daemons is their Ward save, high I, grinding power and that they're unbreakable. They seam to have an answer for any unit I have.

For you people who find Bretts a push over....do you use double Doom Divers? Would you still find them easy if you only had one?

I usually go with one Doom Diver and one unit of Night Goblins with fanatics. I do find Bretts to be a bit hard. Not crazy, but not easy.

Against brets is one of the best ways to go. Cavalry and Pegasus are the biggest threats they have (apart from the trebuchet or course) and doom diver kills them easily. So 2 doom divers are a must against them .

Yes, but what if you are playing a general list? Tailoring for a specific enemy helps, but my general list doesn't have 2 Doom Divers...

Yes, but what if you are playing a general list? Tailoring for a specific enemy helps, but my general list doesn't have 2 Doom Divers...

I usually include two in my lists, but sometimes just one if I want to try new stuff. You can always make a good use of them against any opponent, that's the good thing .

I had similar thoughts, but regarding the rock lobber. Last tourny, I brought 2 DD and 1 RL. I must say I was surprised about the performance of the rock lobber and I wished I had another .

So, why not including 2 DD?

Interesting question, though I think you'll get VERY different opinions depending on the meta-game status of the community of the poster, and the level of "proficiency" of the players in that meta game.

Here in our small community (about 18 players, 12 of them full active), I'll say that the hardest armies for my O&G to face are: WoC, DE, Bretonnia and the Daemons.

I've found the Empire, HE, Dwarfs, Lizzies and TK armies to be very manageable.

Regarding Bretonnia: I think they are TOUGH to crack for my regular army as they can field two Trebs (which decimate our blocks of infantry), the Peg Knights (which just fly over your lines and kill your warmachines if left unprotected), and have mobility in every horse unit which means you WILL be charged. Plus: they have access to Dwellers Below in those pesky damsels. Yes, our best choices are the dual DD and a couple of manglers and fanatics, but the special ward save they have is good against those units.

We don't have any active Beastman players, and the VC expert is still getting the hang of the new book, and doesn't have access to the new minis (yet). From what I've read, VC is also another tough nut to crack. The other match ups are "normal" IMHO

To answer the question of the OP, my BEST match-up has to be against Empire or TK; and my WORST one is a tie between WoC and the Brets. This considering not only the army, but the general that leads them.

And here in our community, my O&G ARE proudly considered among the "hard" matches for every player. Thanks to Da Warpath generals' insight of course !

I'd say our hardest matchup from my experience is definitely VC. Ethereals jam our chaff with ease, they have Regen and we don't have much access to fire, they can Ld-bomb Goblin-heavy armies, and we have nothing that even resembles an answer for the Vampire Lord/Ghoul King from hell. Just bad news all around.

Ogres are formidable, but we have some tools to give them problems (notably the Savage Orc Big 'Uns, which is a unit they have no true counter to). DoC's advantages can be mitigated by combining shooting with solid combat infantry (not trying to grind them down with Gobbos), and by loading up on ItP so you don't get run off the table without getting to fight.

I'd say our easier matchups consist of High Elves (can be ground down with numbers), Wood Elves (ditto), and Bretonnians (we have SO many options to slice through the armor saves they depend so heavily on, it's funny).

I have most trouble with Dark Elves. I am still struggling to break the code with these guys.

Empire are fine, Brets are fine, Ogres is something I have only faced once, and even though I got beat up, it was a close call, so I'll handle them eventually.

Tomb Kings were no problem. but I have never faced VC, WoC, Lizzies or Deamons, so can't say much about them.

But Dark Elves... Grrr. Repeater Crossbows, nasty magic and really fast units keep bugging me. Funny things is, I'm not really bothered by the Hydra, we have ways of dealing with that, it's the rest of the army that I am having trouble with.

I'll continue with this in this thread because I think it's relevant to the original post.

Yes, Doom Divers are really good against specific things, like small units of heavily armored stuff. That's Knights, Chaos Knights, Bretts, Mournfang, Demi-Griff Knights, Cold One Knights, etc. On the other hand, we also have things that can deal with them in the face of Mangler Squigs, Fanatics, Black Orcs, Ax Bosses, and Snotling Pump Wagons w/ spiky roller & spores. Sure, it's much better to deal with them from a distance and as quick as possible, but we do have other ways to deal with them, as well.

They are also good against Skirmishers. We can handle skirmishers through a few other methods, as well. We do have a few spells. We also have Chariots, Pump Wagons, and Fast Cav that can also deal with them. Also, a single Doom Diver is usually enough for the skirmishers (unless facing Lizardmen).

What is a Rock Lobba good for? Killing war machines, monsters, steam tanks, and ranked infantry. Oh, but it doesn't hit as often. Well, that's why I take two! What else can take out war machines? Fast Cav? Most armies with war machines take some sort of war machine hunter. Maybe your fast cav can get there or maybe not. Even if they do, it takes a few turns to get there. I've found that a pair of rock lobbas can usually hit and take out a war machine in a turn. Sometimes not, but sometimes they take out two! If the enemy has cannons or hellblasters, you might want to take them out sooner rather than later and nothing clears them out like a Rock Lobbba.

What about Monsters? We have some things that can deal with Monsters, but it can be hard. Black Orcs have to be in the right spot. Same with characters. Manglers, chariots, and Pump Wagons might clear it out. Doom Divers don't have the high S that can take them out like Rock Lobbas, but can wound them some. Spear Chukkas aren't bad, but they have to hit. I've found that Rock Lobbas are great at trying to hit those nasties that coming at us. Not perfect, but nothing we have kills a dragon like a rock on the head.

Overall, it comes down to what armies you face. If I faced a lot of knights and such, I would want two Doom Divers. I face more war machines than that, though. So, I go with two Rock Lobbas. I find they are a great threat. With two Rock Lobbas, I don't fear Empire as much as I could.

I do think that a lot deals with the players. There is a local guy that is good with any army he takes! He was nasty with the old 7th Ed Ogres, even. Besides that, though, there are some armies that are a bit of a challenge, no matter who the general is. You can have a mediocre opponent, but it can be a very stiff fight. I think Vampire Counts and Demons are those. Warriors of Chaos and Dark Elves have their boosting items that really make it hard, as well.

I agree with you in lot of things you said, but we have almost the same alternatives to kill monsters as heavy cavalry. The Ax boss can put some wounds on them, also chariots and pump wagons. S5 impact hits can deal some wounds to monsters and the majority have T5 or T6, so is something feasible. Some for mangler squigs, with S6 you will see that monsters won’t like to be close to this angry squigs! So, as you can see, we have lot of tools to deal with them, apart from the rock lobber and BO.

I always find an adequate target for my DD! There’s always something interesting to shoot at, not only knights or chaff. What about dwarves for example? Iron breakers and hammerers are always a good choice for them.

And yes, it depends a lot of whom are you facing. Maybe your army has 2 RL and in one round of a tournament you face WoC, an army which the RL are a bit crap since there aren’t fine objectives lot of times. Warshrines? Almost no way, as they have ++3. Marauders? Well, they have big base, you won’t kill a big bunch of them. Sniping characters? If you are very lucky it can be nice, but normally it isn’t.

So the conclusion is, which is the most flexible set up? Bring 2 of both and you will cover both parts .