Goblin Archers With Spider Banner

hi all,

just been looking at putting together my goblins and what to equip them as.

i noticed the spider banner giving a unit poisoned attacks and i had the idea of using 100 goblins 10 wide 10 deep ,
volley fire 60 shots if stationary,
also they can still have shields so would be 5+ armour/6+ parry in combat.

my concern is the range of 18 will this just end up as a combat unit most of the time.
keeping the BSB alive also an issue,

ideally they would be targetting low save troops, if possible gift of the spider god on them so that 5/6 are poisoned ( from the wording im fairly sure this and spider banner stacks , but not past 5.

any thoughts on this?

also - 100 goblins, shields, short bows, fc 430pts
goblin bsb, spider banner, light armour ,shield, 149

Cheers,

Scruggin

Frankly, it's a gimmick. The shots have poor accuracy and range, and anything that gets enough penalties stacked on you will strip you of the poison. Secondly, that range puts you close to the fight, and the second you get into a fight you'll take a beating. Plus that BSB is going to die, because he's very poorly protected. You can try it, but I don't think it will do well.

I have seen a Goblin player use the Spider Banner a bit differently.

He had several smaller regiments of 21 Gobs with Short Bows, and some of them with Fanatics.

The BSB with Spider Banner and seated on a Wolf would then shop between them, moving from regiment to regiment as needed, and adding venomous nastynees here and there.

It worked surprisingly well, bagging him a whole lot of dead Ogres.

Use the goblin with arrer boyz instead. Range 24" and still fighty when in combat S4 first turn and T4.

I am surprised at the comments thus far, I thought this tactic was quite popular...

Never tried it myself but only cuz I don't have the minis.

Now that is something I really hadn't thought of. Nice idea, I still worry about getting squished once in combat though, but I guess you can always move him out of the unit for when that comes around.

While Rothgar has a point in that it's a bit gimmicky, I think the tactic may have merit. There may be negative modifiers, but it's usually only going to be over half/moving or over half. Both still let you poison on 6's, which is all that matters really.

It all depends om the opponents aswell. Poison isn't too badass against let's say, other goblins- but may very well be against elites or things with high toughness.

100 Goblins is overkill if you deploy 10 wide. How about 60 or 80 instead? Or deployed 15 wide?
We could do some basic math with 100 goblins 10 wide under optimal circumstances turn 1 and 2 (so, lose to start t1 so you can M4 into range, and t2 volley fire).

T1 is 20 shots and about 3.15 wounds.

T2 is 60 shots and 10 wounds from poison, and 5 wounds more if you fire at t3.

Potential stand and shoot: About 3.15 wounds.

I'm not sure how often youll get to volley fire. By T3 things are usually in close combat, altough you could delay and hinder this by threatening with fanatics, buying you more time for shooting or making him pay dearly for charging.


As a final note, don't forget this unit is very vulnerable to animosity. A failed test will screw it up for you no matter the result (a 6 wont let you volley fire)

I tried it with Orc Arrer Boys and it went perfectly. I think that you need the 24'' range.

When I go with this tactic, I take a level 4 goblin shaman to get the poison spell. If you cast it on your boys, you'll get poison on 5+.
Here's the list I usually use in 2400:

Orc Warboss
Night Goblin Shaman lvl 4

Goblin BSB, Spider Banner
Night Goblin Bigboss
Savage Orc Shaman, Lucky Head

Arrer Boys
Savage Orcs, 2HW
Night Goblins, Spears
Wolf Riders

Black Orcs
Wolf Chariot
Wolf Chariot

Rock Lobber
Doom Diver

I'm trying this list tomorrow against a wood elf and an ogre army. My tactics are to shoot my opponents biggest units to pieces and my hard hitters to kill of whats left of it

I will shoot and use magic to wither down the opponent and then my blorcs and squigherd will take on the units that comes forward. Even 60 arrer boyz can fight long before they are out in combat.

I tried out a unit of 80 NGs with the Spider BSB in a friendly game against Lizzies...

Turn 1 - Failed my Animosity check, picked a fight with the common Gobs sitting next to the (which were bunkering my Shaman).

Turn 2 - Failed my Animosity check, squabbled.

Turn 3 and on - Everything was in combat or dead except one block of Saurus on the far other side of the battlefield.

I use a unit of 50 Goblins with short bows, shields, light armour, Nasty Skulkers x3 and Full Command in nearly every Goblin army I run with great results.

I find them extremely useful without poison, though I always attempt to cast Gift of the Spider God on them.

I'm not a big fan of the banner because of its cost. However, I have used that combo a few times with positive results! And when you can get Gift of the Spider God off on them it can be very nasty!

I'd say go for it! My only suggestion is that you're better off with 2 units of 50, rather than the 1 unit of 100.

Arrer Boyz definitely look like a more viable version of this tactic to me - they won't curl up and die quite as easily on T1 of the inevitable combat you're going to find yourself in, and the better range does help. If you deploy them 10-wide, it also helps keep 20mm Hordes away. I'm not sold on it, but this at least has a couple of perks to mention.

This post has been edited by rothgar13 on May 16 2012, 03:59 PM

Thing is for the cost of 25 arrer boyz you can take 50 goblins with bows. I am not sure orcs are necessarily the better bargain.

Yeah, it really isn't. You want the Goblins because:

1. They are cheaper for their bows (3p), so you get both more attacks from CC and shooting

2. They have nets, which protects the BSB and really drags down combat

3. They have fanatics, which means units that want to close the gap quickly need to wade through those first

Nets are definitely a point in favor of NG bowmen, but that still only means that you can hold people down for a bit. Since they're likely crashing into you while you're 10-wide, it won't be long before a Horde can chew that unit past the point where it would be Steadfast, and then your points go down the tubes. And again, the range is a big deal.