Regular So's Or A Unit Of Bo's?

[ahmusgra]

So i use a large unit infantry list at 2.5-3kpts Im using

100ngs
30bos
30ob's bunker unit
30sob's

Im finding that the "elite" blorcs are my weakest unit. they are just too soft with the 5+ AS and they are so expensive.

so im thinking of using a unit of regular savage orc boys instead and adding points elswhere in the list with the points saved. I know the so's will only have a 6+ ws but that never goes away where as the bo's AS nearly always gets negated.

2 questions

Have others found that the blorcs are lacking in the same way?

Can regular so's hold their own i have never used them not being biguns?

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

[Grimskul25]

Well it depends on how you use your black orcs and how you equip them for (e.g. the Banner of the Eternal Flame for regen monster hunting). One reason why BO's are still a viable choice is because not only are they one of the more reliable units in our army thanks to them being ITP and not having animosity but also being the only unit with access to great weapons; especially with S7 the first round.

Of course one of the problems of BO's as you have already mentioned is that they die just as easily as a normal orc (I always though they should have had either T5 or a 6+ scaly skin but that's just me) which again really forces you to use them wisely and not like a swiss army knife because, as with most orc units ,they have a specific role to play in an army. Unfortunately meaning our "elite" often doesn't match up to things like a block of halberd-toting chaos warriors of khorne. Despite this as long as you have enough target saturation for your enemy to focus on such as a mob of SO Big 'Uns, Trolls, etc. I think that even if they take significant casualties, they have played their role as the rest of your army is left unscathed to wreak havoc with the rest of their army. Similarly if they leave them alone, they can rampage with their great weapons or double choppas.

Also normal SO boyz are lacklustre simply because frenzy makes them a liability at times (especially redirectors) and without the big 'un upgrade they often underperform in the cases where I have used them. You may as well just get Orc Boyz with additional hand weapons or heck a squig herd instead.

Also what types of units do you face? Knowing what type of armies you fight the most could help as BO's have been invaluable for me against heavy calvary, monstrous calvary and monsters but if you face a really shooty army or Skaven-slave train army they might not be the best choice.

This post has been edited by Grimskul25 on Apr 16 2012, 04:04 AM

[rothgar13]

Savage Orcs are even squishier than Blorcs - the WS3 will have a lot of relevant opponents hitting them on 3's, their save is actually worse against S3 attacks, and the lower Strength (plus weaker weapon options) make them less able to defend themselves in combat.

[theorox]

I'm not super impressed with either Savages or Blorcs so far. They just don't fight all that well in my experience. However, I'm developing a reputation of bad luck right now...

Theo

[mickkk666]

Depends on the points you play. For 2000, BOs are too expensive, but for 2500 or more, I think they have a place. Instead of bringing big blocks, try to fit smaller ones. They can either support your main blocks or go monster hunting on the flank. You will need diverters to decide when and where you want to fight, that will help a lot to develop their work .

[rothgar13]

Blorcs haven't let me down much. You do have to be cognizant of what targets you send them into (i.e. you want things that they would handle better than Savages), but once that's covered they're awesome. The reliability is especially what makes me happy about them - they're the one unit in the O&G army I can count on to do what I want it to do at all times, which is worth a ton in my book.

[Cornwall]

I've only fielded them against Ogres. Usually in units of 20, and 3 out of 3 times they've let me down so I've stopped using them for the moment. They're just not strong enough to survive a head on charge by a unit of even the most basic of Ogres.

I know I should try to be more sneaky with them, but as they only have a move of 4" it's hard to use them as flankers.

Given the choice I'd take savages, although I think the black orc figures look cool.

+1 for not fielding them in under 2000pts battles

[rothgar13]

To be honest with you, 20 is awful few bodies for anything that's not a monster hunter or a flanker. If you're planning on running them as a fighty unit, I'd say 30 to start, and I personally pack 40, once I add characters.

[Craze_b0i]

Savage orc boyz are ok performers provided you have space within your leadership bubble. If you already have a lot of stuff crowded around the leadership bubble, which it sounds like you do, then I'd personally opt for black orcs. As mentioned they work really well on the flank - just try and deploy them so as to avoid facing too many warmachines.

This post has been edited by Craze_b0i on Apr 16 2012, 12:02 PM

[Groznit Goregut]

I've tried regular Savages and they are just not worth it. The S3 is meager and they just fail to kill things.

I've not used Black Orcs that much in 8th as I have a bad taste in my mouth from 7th Ed where I never used them. I started to actually paint some up, but put them on the back burner. I'd like to try them out a bit.

Do you not give them shields? I always do, just for the magic and shooting you know they are going to take.

I will say that adding in a cheap combat character can really help a unit like that. The few extra kills they add in is good.

[Forchark]

Also, with that many points, feel free to include a savage orc shaman on a boar with a shrunken head. Join him with the Savage Orcs and they have a 5+ ward save. If you have Wurrzag in the group, it is a 4+ save (alone with Wurrzag it is a 5+). You will likely be using an orc shaman anyways, so go for it. This makes them worth it.

Additionally, what I have seen so far, people are typically more worried about Savage orcs than others (excluding black orcs) so that is one thing to consider when using a hammer/anvil (NGs?).

If you go black orcs, give them a shield. It is by no means a dramatic increase in points, and they get their ranged 4+ save and that option in combat. Why not? And if you net the same unit with NGs, you are set. You can make them your centerpiece.

[ahmusgra]

thnaks for all the words of wisdom.

I know they are the best infantry we have i guess i have just had poor luck and poor placement on my partf. the last few games they have just been my weak spot.

I have tried using shields on them but i really see that as a waist of points in my list. the fact that i never choose sword and board as a combat choice with them means im never getting a better AS then 5+ so not really worth the extra 30pts in a 2500pt list. I usually dont face shooty armies and if i do its S3 bow fire that seems to not bother the ol blorcs.

I be placing them on the flank from now on it just scares me to have that many points away from the bsb.

Thanks again for all the feedback.

[Craze_b0i]

Well mathmatically you are right. The shield is virtually never the right choice in close combat. Regardless of what you are facing the extra damage you do with AHW or GW outweighs the improved save. Even fighting a Bloodthirster I'd rather take 1 or 2 extra wounds in exchange for the opportunity to smash him back with some S7 attacks.

For me the shield only really helps vs shooting. Even here you can either take it or leave it depending on your opponent.

This post has been edited by Craze_b0i on Apr 16 2012, 05:37 PM

[mickkk666]

The purpose of giving them the shield is for shooting / magic. It makes them tougher, which is a good idea. Of course, it depends on the army you are playing against, but 1 points per model is really good.

[ahmusgra]

I am also having a hard time deciding when to use great weapons. The last game I played vs skaven and the bo's got charged by an abom. First round the abom rolled a 4one and got the most attacks it could get. So I used 2x hws they eventually killed the abom after a couple rounds but should i have gone with the great weapons the abom is only T 6? I chose 2xhws because he had more attacks and I had St5 1st turn and needed more damage to balance combat res. Is this the right way of thinking or am I way off?