Spiderriders Vs Wolves Vs Boars Vs Squigs, Torn between the cavalry

So far, I have been able to use wolves the way I used wolves in my beastmen army, forcing them where I want them to flank them, and now with OnG, forcing them somewhere to flank them after showering them with fanatics. However, Before I play other lists, what do I want? I have played another OnG player who ran boar boys, standard, and they hit hard and defend well. I would want savage orc boar boy fyi if/when I get them so comment on them as well. Are spider riders damage dealers or redirectioners like wolves? lastly, squig mounts?...worth the points/cost?

Hey lad. Nice to hear that you use the wolfs as intended. They are the better choice, compared to spider riders, who have the same purpose. So no need to invest in those guys.

Boarboys on the other half is a nice unit. They work so well at swinging combats with their S5 and 3+ save. Savages on the other half have a worse save, are easy to redirect, and have to overrun from combat. On the other half they don't run screaming away from terror. So there are pros and cons. I prefer the better save though. Both builds I would run spear and shield.

Squig hoppers are a totally different size. They are glass hammers, who only work in groups of 5 or 6. They are good because of their 360 degree charge arc and random movement which deny enemy charge reactions. So they're perfect for handeling small units of chaff, that tries to take out warmachines, march block etc. They are cavalry though, so only the riders get to make supporting attacks. Which is why they only work in 5 strong units. And they are hit on ws2, again because of cavalry, so they are as easy to kill as goblins. They are a fine though. Their only problem is that the pumpwagon does the same thing, just cheaper and better.

Hope that helps

This post has been edited by Morten C on Apr 11 2012, 04:00 AM

In general, here are my recommendations for O&G cavalry:

Boar Boyz - Two main options stand out here - you can either keep them cheap and use them to clear your opponent's redirectors (5 guys with Shields, Spears, and a Musician should do the trick), or you can go for the dedicated flanker who gets the additional job of disrupting ranks and swinging fights your way (10-12 guys with Shields, Spears, and full command do this and do it well).

Goblin Spider Riders - Shelf decoration. Anything these guys can do, Wolf Riders usually can do better, and for less points to boot.

Goblin Wolf Riders - Great chaff units, and they can be a tough out thanks to that 4+ armor save. M9 + Vanguard means they can be wherever you need them fast. Squads of 5 with Spears and Shields are my preference.

Savage Orc Boar Boyz - Shelf decoration. Frenzy makes them easy to bait, which is not something you want in a unit that can't win fights by itself (and no, they can't). To boot, the lower armor save in exchange for Warpaint is oftentimes a losing trade, and that's not even considering that Wild Abandon is a trap.

Squig Hoppers - Shelf decoration. Random movement makes them quite slow at the business of actually getting up to your opponent, and having a WS2/T3/6+ save defense line in close combat holds up about as well as office paper does to a shredder. ItP is cute and the Squig does hit hard, but if that's what you want, bring a Squig Herd instead.

This post has been edited by rothgar13 on Apr 11 2012, 05:06 AM

I'll interject here and say that Spiderriders are just as good as Wolfriders in my eyes.

Why? Because of their awesome terrainscaling abilities. They really do make a difference. The poison has helped me too. And even the I4 of the spiders has been helpful! Also, the models are waay better than the wolfrider ones.

Theo

In certain situations, they can be useful, but IMO they are a bit suboptimal choice. If they were cheaper maybe they could be an option, but having less armour and less movement makes wolf riders a better choice.

the stridereffect is indeed very usefull. That is why i would say a Goblin character on Giant Spider is a very good option. more expensive than 5 riders, but in my eyes, more potential.

How about adding it to the convo?

Well apart from snotling I don't think that there is any unit in the book that is practically useless (and even those have uses). I just really think that movemnt 9 and 4+ armor save is superior to poison and strider. Both options are fine IMO, but if you already have wolfs, no reason for spiders.

The ideas of using those for bosses is nice though, since they still get the good armor save!
I don't agree on the models either. The goblins on the wolfs might be terrible, but the wolfs are still good IMO

Spiders can't really traverse terrain any better. They can't climb over impassable or anything, only unoccupied houses, which is really circumstantial.

March through forests, sure, but that's also sort of meh

This post has been edited by Squigkikka on Apr 11 2012, 11:47 AM

This got me thinking: Where does it say that any unit *can't* march through forests ? I can't find the ruling... Help !

This got me thinking: Where does it say that any unit *can't* march through forests ? I can't find the ruling... Help !

well they can. No problem

Cavalry, monstrous cav, and chariots just take dangerous terrain tests if the do so! As far as I remember, they've removed all terrain that slowed movement down, to create a faster game. You just risk taking casualties.

Thank you very much for the quick answer Morten

For a minute there, I thought I was playing the game wrong. Yeah, the removing of that rule does make for a faster game (with A LOT more dice-rolls of course )

Thank you for the input guys! I forgot to consider wolves are a 4+ which is awesome for what they are. Two reason I want to know, these 500pt games make me want to make a fast flanking unit or either spiders or wolves. Secondly, I want boar boyz, but wanted somehow to justify the savage orc boar boyz. I run a unit of them with a sham, and at 1500+ game I'm sure they are good because of Wurzaag and a sham in the group with a shrunken head, but yeah.. Most my friends say they are sick, when I cant see it with frenzy ending once combat is lost. All they seem to do is force into enemy units, use poor saves, then flee.

And too bad about the squig hoppers. I love my night goblins so much that I wanted to see if I could get in their cavalry happily.

Thanks again.

There is one very important factor that no one has ever mentioned, and I feel gamesworkshop did this on purpose. Spiders, with Snagla Gobspit, get ambusher. No amount of wolves will give you this. Ambusher in most cases is very advantageous.

And I find SO Boar Boyz very awesome against other armies w/low I. Ogres/Undead and what have you. But if your buying only one set then Either Wolves or Orc Boar boyz might work in all situations.

I cannot defend squig hoppers though. I was just asking about these guys because I have never played out skirmishers before and i was curious. They dont even get the move/shoot coolness of that. Easy and slow targets.

IMO boars and wolves are by far the better choices.

Wolves are a better investment for the majority of the functions you want them for (diverting, war machine hunting, light chaff killing). Wolves have a much higher movement, and are fast cavalry, with vanguard. I like to keep my wolves cheap. Either spears only, or bows. Bows get laughed at a lot, but if you are diverting with them, then what do you need spears or shields for? Bows might get you a lucky kill or two, and are an additional perceived threat to a character who is thinking about jumping out of a unit.

Boars are way more expensive and don't perform the same function as wolves. I like to run boars with shield only because the upgrades cost 2p, vs just the 1p of wolves. The spear upgrade increases only 1s for one attack from a 2A (with boars included) model. The spear only increases S on the charge, which is the preferred way to get into combat, but not a guarantee with their lower movement. The difference between boars and wolves is survivability. a T4 3+ save is a hell of a lot better than a T3 4+ save. These stats make charging a unit of shades, or something else that has a decent stand and shoot, a much less risky proposition. Boars are tough enough when equipped with shield that you can expect them to stick around in combat vs most stuff. Sometimes wolves do too, but it is always a dicey gambit.

Boars are better imo at war machine protecting than wolves are, but then again, they still aren't as good as a pump wagon.

Having said all of the above, I pretty much always take wolves. other stuff in my army can perform the functions that boars can, but nothing does what wolves do better than wolves (possible exception the lone wolf rider hero).

I would like to add my two cents about Squig Hoppers. I have been experimenting with them, but have mostly been disappointed.

Squig Hoppers in small units
Their Random Movement is nice, as it keeps the opponent quessing, but this mostly means that they get shot to bits very early in the game, as the 2 S5 attacks are a bit scary.
This could be seen as fine, as this of course means that there is something else that doesnt get shot at.
They get no Animosity, which is very good.
Toughness 3 and no armor makes them die a lot, however.
As small flanking units, they can be useful, I just havent had any real luck with them yet.

Squig Hoppers in big units
This is, in my opinion, not a good idea. From being a nuisance unit, they now become a points sink, and one that is easily disposed of with shooting. So many points, being so fragile, is too tempting.

Squig Hoppers with a Night Goblin Character on a Great Cave Squig
This gets interesting, but also more expensive.
The Character adds some sort of control (some sort) of the Random Movement, and some staying power as well. I have tried this a single time, and it definately had some attention from my opponent. They got nuked by magic, and finally died to a lucky charge from a Wolf Chariot. I will try again, however.
Against low Initiative foes, such as Orcs and Ogres, this option may not be so bad.
Can other things do a better job? Most likely.
Will your opponent expect this unit? Most likely not.
Is it fun? Oh, yes.

Squig Hoppers as a Deathstar with 4-5 Night Goblins Characters on Great Cave Squigs
Mad, yes. Fun, yes.
I havent tried it (I only have 2 NG's on Great Squigs), but it sounds like something that just may work, again because it can surprise your opponent, who expect Wolf Riders.
They have a good deal of staying power, and have the possibiliy of coursing a good deal of carnage.
With the right magic items, they may actually survive for a while.
I would like to try it out, when I have the money, or the time to do some conversions.

A note about Pump Wagons
Pump Wagons trundling alongside the Squig Hoppers is fun. They add another unit that is Immune to Psychology, so they dont care if their neighboring unit gets offed. And they are very good at what they do. If you field Squig Hoppers, field Pump Wagons as well.
Or maybe just always field Pump Wagons, no matter what. I am biased, I love Pump Wagons. :-)

This post has been edited by Mrmox42 on Apr 12 2012, 09:55 AM