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 Ng Unit Equipment, Best choice?
Warboss Gorbolg
Posted: Feb 21 2012, 12:58 PM


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Only reason to take spears is that you've bought a bunch of BfSP gobbos or you prefer the way they look. I'm in the HW/Shield camp, where you should actually be able to take a little bit smaller units because of the parry and save some points to put elsewhere. In the end it shouldn't matter much, but if you're looking to optimize I would go with HW/Shield.
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Squigkikka
Posted: Feb 21 2012, 01:46 PM


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That really is it tongue.gif I'd use HW/S if all my NGs werent BFSP Spear Night Goblins.
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Groznit Goregut
Posted: Feb 21 2012, 03:44 PM


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I don't think it matters much either way. The difference is so small, that I don't think it really tips it one way or the other. I'm sure people have preferences, but there isn't a statistical option that stands out. I say go with whatever you model them as. If you have a lot of BfSP gobbos, then go that route! I've got a lot of the old ones and the new ones that are all spears, so I tend to go with them.
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rothgar13
Posted: Feb 21 2012, 07:55 PM


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It is a big deal if you want a tarpit, but are a bit light on models. If you're bringing 70+ Gobbos, it's probably not going to show up until a point in time when either unit would have been doomed anyway.
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Groznit Goregut
Posted: Feb 21 2012, 08:21 PM


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Not true. The case in point was when his unit of 70+ NG got into the flank of my SOBU while there was another big unit of NG in the front. His NG on the flank with 1 character whiffed and caused few wounds. I caused a lot of wounds all around and it was enough to tie the CR. I had a musician and he didn't. I won combat. He failed a Steadfast check and fled off the table! That can happen in the first round of combat.
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Cannibalbob
Posted: Feb 21 2012, 08:29 PM


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QUOTE (rothgar13 @ Feb 21 2012, 07:55 PM)
It is a big deal if you want a tarpit, but are a bit light on models. If you're bringing 70+ Gobbos, it's probably not going to show up until a point in time when either unit would have been doomed anyway.

I disagree about it not mattering if you have large numbers. I think it matters more in regards to what the unit formation is and what you are doing with them. If you are playing with a big unit that is in Horde formation then in my experience the parry save from hand-weapon & shield adds up over multiple turns of combat. In that situation you have less ranks than if you were in a bus formation and you want to conserve your ranks for as long as you can while still getting the benefit from having a lot of attacks. My experience is that the saved models add up over a protracted combat.

In a single round the difference between spears and hand-weapons does not generally matter. For combat res they tend to be fairly close against most opponents with the extra bit of damage off-setting the extra bit of saved damage. But, it does make a difference in a protracted combat, or combat against units that will negate the 6+ armor save (anyone str-5 or greater). But, if you have access to either the Spider Banner or the poison spell then spears become very nasty.

On the whole I think that the hand-weapon + shield combo is a bit more versatile. But both set-ups are viable.

This post has been edited by Cannibalbob on Feb 21 2012, 08:31 PM
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Shimmergloom
Posted: Feb 21 2012, 10:02 PM


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QUOTE (Groznit Goregut @ Feb 21 2012, 08:21 PM)
Not true. The case in point was when his unit of 70+ NG got into the flank of my SOBU while there was another big unit of NG in the front. His NG on the flank with 1 character whiffed and caused few wounds. I caused a lot of wounds all around and it was enough to tie the CR. I had a musician and he didn't. I won combat. He failed a Steadfast check and fled off the table! That can happen in the first round of combat.

Yes, but really what are the chances that 41 ng spear attacks and 12 GW attacks are going to whiff so badly that I only cause 2 unsaved wounds?

I only got 1 hit on 12 big boss attacks, the chances of that happening are as small as us having a tie with that many attacks going out.

On the other hand, if I had had less ng's and musicians instead in my other 2 games, that would have cost me to lose steadfast a turn earlier and been just as bad.

So it was either be hurt in 2 games or be hurt in 1 game.

However, since Brawler bash is 3k, I am going to take musicians and force myself to take a black orc, since my great shaman's unit failed animosity in all 3 games and in like 5 of my last 6 games and 3 of those times it cost me dearly. But I am sure that once I have musicians again, I will never see another tie and instead see more 66-7 CR results.
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Shimmergloom
Posted: Feb 21 2012, 10:10 PM


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QUOTE
I disagree about it not mattering if you have large numbers. I think it matters more in regards to what the unit formation is and what you are doing with them. If you are playing with a big unit that is in Horde formation then in my experience the parry save from hand-weapon & shield adds up over multiple turns of combat. In that situation you have less ranks than if you were in a bus formation and you want to conserve your ranks for as long as you can while still getting the benefit from having a lot of attacks. My experience is that the saved models add up over a protracted combat.

In a single round the difference between spears and hand-weapons does not generally matter. For combat res they tend to be fairly close against most opponents with the extra bit of damage off-setting the extra bit of saved damage. But, it does make a difference in a protracted combat, or combat against units that will negate the 6+ armor save (anyone str-5 or greater). But, if you have access to either the Spider Banner or the poison spell then spears become very nasty.

On the whole I think that the hand-weapon + shield combo is a bit more versatile. But both set-ups are viable.


Ok, here is my take on this, since I have tried both in units of 90+.

When I take hw/shield, I lose less guys, but I am still rarely winning combats and getting less enemy kills. With spears, I am losing more guys and still losing combats. However, I am getting more kills.

And that's basically your only hope with ngs. You hope that your big bosses can get kills and that your ngs can get kills and that you can use that to grind down your opponent. You can't expect to win. If you do, it is a bonus. Your main goal though is to grind down.
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rothgar13
Posted: Feb 21 2012, 10:34 PM


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Sure, when you have 90+ NG's in Horde formation with 4 Big Bosses, trying to grind people down with Spears doesn't sound like a bad idea. But that's enough points spent for you to have a real fighting unit instead. If you're fielding Gobbos as a tarpit, I'd rather have as few of them die as possible, because the goal isn't to grind, it's to hold.
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Cannibalbob
Posted: Feb 22 2012, 05:03 AM


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QUOTE (rothgar13 @ Feb 21 2012, 10:34 PM)
Sure, when you have 90+ NG's in Horde formation with 4 Big Bosses, trying to grind people down with Spears doesn't sound like a bad idea. But that's enough points spent for you to have a real fighting unit instead. If you're fielding Gobbos as a tarpit, I'd rather have as few of them die as possible, because the goal isn't to grind, it's to hold.

That still depends on the army. Some people play full goblin armies, and for them grinding down is one of the tactics available. But even then, you should always be looking to use flanking hammer units (squigs, trolls, giants, etc).
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rothgar13
Posted: Feb 22 2012, 06:03 AM


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I agree with that. Gobbo armies should never let their NG's grind alone - you're saving a bunch of points on your troops, spend it on flankers! smile.gif
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mickkk666
Posted: Feb 22 2012, 07:36 AM


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+1. I prefer having units of less gobbos and spend the rest of the points in chariots, squigs etc.
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theorox
Posted: Feb 22 2012, 09:45 AM


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That's how the game is supposed to be played. The use of Supportunits is largely the determining factor of who is a good player. smile.gif (Hello generalized statement wich some will probably find offensive...)

Theo
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Groznit Goregut
Posted: Feb 22 2012, 03:39 PM


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QUOTE (Shimmergloom @ Feb 21 2012, 10:02 PM)
I only got 1 hit on 12 big boss attacks, the chances of that happening are as small as us having a tie with that many attacks going out.

Actually, you only had one hero left and did one wound with him. I had killed 2 others in previous combats.
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Shimmergloom
Posted: Feb 22 2012, 05:33 PM


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No, in the final combat I had all 3 big bosses from the front horde and 1 big boss from the flank horde, so I had 12 GW attacks. I only got 1 hit from the 12 attacks.
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