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Pages: (3) 1 [2] 3  ( Go to first unread post )

 Next Target? Best Tactics To Use?
bobhope99
Posted: Feb 24 2012, 03:00 PM


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The pheonix guard also cause fear, so the trolls won't help on that one. I would reverse your plan, use your combat blocks to slaughter his seaguard, then slam the other block with everything you've got left.
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Warbringa
Posted: Mar 2 2012, 04:46 AM


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So I had my game against the High Elf Player.

Went very well. I beat him on Round 3, his turn.

When my Night Goblin Horde, next to my Night Goblin short bowmen unit were in range, he charged them ( the Night Goblin with Spears unit, though his sea guard [with Wizard] were also in contact with the short bowmen). I'll tell you now, my General and BSB who I had to the side, and my Trolls didn't even get into combat. They were positioned to charge in Round 4 of my turn.

Simply put, I won my attrition and Combat resolution. My Horde did enough wounds to him in Round 2 where he lost 8 out of 9 guys ) 8 guys failed their 4+ ward save. My Bowmen widdled down the Sea Guard and by the end of his turn on round 3 all that was left was the Champ from his Phoenix Guard and the Wizard that was with the Sea Guard and they both ran, got caught, and I won.


So this Saturday my next round is against a Lizardmen player and his 500pts.

So now I'll be strategizing to see how I'll want to take him out.

He'll have a 5x4 Saurus unit with spears and shields. 2 Skink Skirmisher units with 10 in each. And a LvL 2 Wizard that he'll have in one of the Skirmisher units.

My general plan will be to send my NG bowmen into the Skirmisher unit that has the Wizard. Try and beat it in combat resolution by doing enough damage to it plus the ranks I'll have in that unit ( I'll field it 4x5). So if I get the charge, plus dmg I do, plus the ranks ( whatever I have left - being optimistic) should hurt him and hopefully get him to fail a leadership test and run.

Everything else I'll send against the Saurus. Send in the NG with spears in Horde formation, march and release Fanatics or let him charge me and release them. Position my General and River Trolls to flank the Saurus probably by Round 3 or 4 they should make that flank and just tear that up. Not too worried about the other sknk unit but I'll handle it accordingly. Depending how he sets up I may send my Boss and Trolls into it and take it out by Round 2 and then have them get rdy for the Saurus unit.
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Cannibalbob
Posted: Mar 2 2012, 07:56 AM


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Congratulations on your victory!

Saurus are nasty, and are one of the units my night gobbos have a very tough time taking down. Thankfully nets work very well against them and push them down to strength-3. For this battle I would recommend having your characters in the Night gobbo unit instead of behind it. The nets should make your characters very tough compared to the Saurus, and those characters will be helpful in pushing the attrition fight to your advantage.

With saurus you will need to work pretty hard to break them since they have the cold-blooded rule. But, you do still have your trolls to work as flankers to assist in killing the saurus.

This post has been edited by Cannibalbob on Mar 2 2012, 07:57 AM
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Wechselbalg
Posted: Mar 2 2012, 11:39 AM


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Gratz to your win, sounds like it was steamroll biggrin.gif

No nets means you have a real hard time taking those saurus guys down so IŽd focus on everything else first and get the saurus stuff combo charged after.
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theorox
Posted: Mar 2 2012, 02:07 PM


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Gratz man! Fanatics would be great against those lizzies, it sounds like...or a doomdiver. smile.gif

Theo
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Cannibalbob
Posted: Mar 2 2012, 05:09 PM


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I forgot that you do not have nets, so forget what I said about putting your characters into your units. I would once again keep them out of combat with the Saurus until it is possibly safe to bring them in. Saurus will generate a ton of attacks, so they will be killing goblins wholesale. This battle might be hard for you to win.

It is sad that nets are as strong as they are, but they really make a huge difference. Those saurus will be attacking in 3 ranks with spears, and the front rank has 2 attacks each. So that unit will be putting out 20 attacks a turn until you can cut it to less than 15 models. That means you have to kill 6 saurus before you reduce his attacks at all. And with T4 and a 4+ armor save they will be very hard to take down.
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Colonel
Posted: Mar 2 2012, 06:28 PM


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Make sure you run the trolls in a conga line.. they get the same attacks and take less attacks back.. you just lose one stomp. They can combo charge easier with a ranked unit like this to get more attacks, or they can be thrown into a unit with a character like this to assassinate a wizard.

Do whatever you can to throw those fanatics through the saurus. Maybe charge the trolls or other gobbos into the saurus and then march the night gob unit to within 8" and throw the fanatics through the trolls so you really need less than 8" to get them in. Sacrificing 10 gobbos for 10 saurus is a steal if you are already in combat and cant panic.
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Warbringa
Posted: Mar 3 2012, 01:40 AM


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Welp, here is another thing I think I forgot to mention. There is a scenario involved here. I have a cart that contains loot. All that matters is that I have the cart and who wins is the one who has the cart by round 6 or has wiped the other player out totally.

So I am the ambushee, he will be the attacker. I deply first, he attacks first. I have to put this "cart" that I have with one of my units. If the unit is killed, the cart stays where it is on the board till it's picked up.


I'm considering having this cart stationed ( trailing) behind my Night Goblin Unit with Spears ( It pretty much stays in the back attatched to the back of the base).

I'd choose that unit since it would be harder and take longer to do enough damage to get it to break, I believe. My other option would be to put the cart with my NG unit with bows and keep them as far back and out of the way as possible while the rest of my force goes after / slows him down.

There are a lot of options here.

I could even have everything hang back and make him make his way to me, especially since he starts first I would not want to be too close to my 12" up line.


What seems best when I replay it over in my head, is keeping the cart with the NG with spears, march the NG with spears towards the Saurus without getting withn 8". Tempt him to charge me with the Saurus so I can make sure the 2 Fanatics will definitely hit him sinc he's charging, and I'll get to use all 4 ranks since I'll be in horde formation.

Around this time I may have my NG short bow men charging on one unit of skinks ( which he'll have somewhere left of his Saurus, and have my General and two Trolls ( not in the same unit) charge the other unit of skinks that the LvL 2 Wizard is in. That skink unit will be somewhere on the other side of the Saurus.

I'm confident my General and Trolls will destroy his unit of skinks with Wizard. If I wipe them then my General and Trolls will attempt to restrain and reform facing the Saurus Flank.

I'm somewhat confident my unit of NG bowmen 5x4 charging into the Skinks on the other side will do enough wounds, and with that added the charge and ranks I have left over from the counter attack to my combat resolution, get them to break ( perhaps let them run off while I attempt to restrain and face the Saurus from the other side.

By the next round I should be able to flank charge my NG bowmen at the Saurus on one side while my Genral and Trolls flank him on the other side. All the while my NG spearmen have been tarpitting him. Possibly by this round I would have reformed the NG spearmen to 5 wide and "x" amount of ranks down.

This whole time my BSB will be off to the side( not in the NG spearmen unit for fear of being challenged and killed in the challenge) and use his range for rerolling failed leadership tests.


So that's one plan. Have a couple other ideas but I have to play test them. And I have to read through the Lore of Heavens since he'll be able to get two spells from that. So I want to see what I may have to be ready for in those regards if he gets any of them off.
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Cannibalbob
Posted: Mar 3 2012, 02:52 AM


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If he has played against an army with fanatics before then most likely he will march/charge one of the skink units into the teeth of the fanatic unit just to get rid of them.
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Warbringa
Posted: Mar 3 2012, 03:36 AM


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With a Movement of 6 for the Skinks, I'm anticipating the chance it's crossed his head ( he's "fairly new" to Fantasy, but not stupid) to try and get the fanatics to release early and can do so by throwing a skink unit at it.

So in anticipation I'm play testing a couple deployment and stategies.

There is an obstruction lower left quadrant of the board. A forest ( to be determined of the type upon entry / touch of it) in the center of the board, and another obstruction top right quadrant of the board.

I do not plan on sending anything through the forest. I plan to deply everything close together right of the forest. So right of center deployment.

I am about to try deploying as follows:

my two River Trolls side by side in one unit. Able to move straight forward with the forest directly at its left. So not going to touch that and they'll be deployed so that as they move forward it won't be in the way.

My NG Horde with Spears 1 inch right of the Trolls facing straight ahead.

My Night Goblin Big Boss BSB directly ( couple inches) behind the NG Horde with Spears, more on the back right side.

My Orc Big Boss on Boar 1 inch to the right of the NG with Spears facing straight.

My NG bowmen 5x4, 2-3 inches directly to the right of my Orc Big Boss. Slightly facing left ( or straight depending on what he deploys straight ahead of them).

My Trolls will always be ahead of my NG on their left and straight ahead, and my Orc Big Boss will do the same ( followed by back up of the NG with bows that are on his right) on the NG unit with spears Left hand side.

I expect him to deploy his Saurus between both Skink Skirmish units and his Wizard in one of the skirmish units.

So initially my NG Horde will hit his Saurus or taunt a charge. My Trolls, or General and NG Bowmen will charge the skink unit with the Wizard ( whichever side he'll be on determines that).

So I'm going to try and prevent early release and try to take out the Skink unit with Wizard. Followed by reforming to aid the NG Horde by charging the Saurus the turn after.

Considering placing the General with the NG Bowmen so he can't be attacked by the skinks ranged attacks. Yeah, this thought just occured to me. LoL. I'll try that first, keeping him with that unit and let it head out together.


What exactly does Cold Blooded do? And How do the blow pipes that the Skinks use work? Multiple attacks? 1 attack each? I know about the poison. Just wondering if there is anything special about the blow pipes in general.
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Warbringa
Posted: Mar 3 2012, 03:45 AM


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Ok, from my research Blow pipes do 2 attacks at S3 and 12" range.

Cold blooded means they can roll 3 dice for leadership test and use the lowest of the two.

Not sure if it's true, but read that skinks attacking your flank do not disrupt it. I'm assuming because they are considered a skirmish unit, even if they have to "group up" once in contact?
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Cannibalbob
Posted: Mar 3 2012, 04:04 AM


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You have more units than him, especially with your characters outside of your units. So even if he sacrifices a skink unit to get rid of your fanatics you have the advantage. In terms of points, you win that exchange since the fanatic points are tied up in your night goblin unit but his skink unit will most likely be decimated.

Anything in your army stands to do well against the skinks in combat. You are correct that they cannot cause disruption since they are skirmishers. They also cannot gain rank bonuses, so even your lone heroes can beat up those units. And they are one of the few units in the game worse than goblins in a fight (they have T2). However, they are pretty decent at shooting at close range with multiple shooting attacks that have poison. They could do a number on your trolls if you let them get close enough to shoot at you and then make a stand & shoot when your charge.

One thing to beware of though is the skink wizard. I don't remember all that they can do, but when I have faced them they generally choose from the lore of heaven and they have a way to get an additional spell. As with any lore there are some nasty spells in the lore of Heavens and he can potentially do some ugly things in a game this small. If he manages to get the comet spell cast that can make your day very bad very quickly. There is also the possibility of sniping out your characters with lightning spells if they are outside units and you are not careful.
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Warbringa
Posted: Mar 3 2012, 04:57 AM


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Bleh. I'm going to have to keep the characters in a unit or have the foresight to know which route my opponent is going to take with his skinks or they'll take out those characters.

Trolls will have to be better deployed to make sure they move up and turn accordingly to be able to flank that Saurus unit. In the mock test I did they were only able to go straight into it. Not where I wanted them. Saurus unit failed its LD test and was feared so had WS1. Hitting my Trolls on 5s since to hit River Trolls negates 1 to hit. Hmm...actually, should have been 6's? WS attempting to hit WS 3 would need 5s to hit, right? Don't mind me. It's midnight and I'm tired. lol



Question! If the Wizard is in a Skirmish unit and rolls irrisistable force and rolls a miscast outcome that requires a template to do damage over the Wizard and anyone he is around........doesn't the skirmishing skinks around him take damage too since they are around him? I could have sworn I heard it argued by the Lizardman player I'm going up against that they don't get hit since they are Skirmishers. But I couldn't find it in the rules.

Need help on that one guys, please. ;D
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Warbringa
Posted: Mar 3 2012, 05:09 AM


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QUOTE (Cannibalbob @ Mar 3 2012, 04:04 AM)
You have more units than him, especially with your characters outside of your units. So even if he sacrifices a skink unit to get rid of your fanatics you have the advantage. In terms of points, you win that exchange since the fanatic points are tied up in your night goblin unit but his skink unit will most likely be decimated.

Anything in your army stands to do well against the skinks in combat. You are correct that they cannot cause disruption since they are skirmishers. They also cannot gain rank bonuses, so even your lone heroes can beat up those units. And they are one of the few units in the game worse than goblins in a fight (they have T2). However, they are pretty decent at shooting at close range with multiple shooting attacks that have poison. They could do a number on your trolls if you let them get close enough to shoot at you and then make a stand & shoot when your charge.

One thing to beware of though is the skink wizard. I don't remember all that they can do, but when I have faced them they generally choose from the lore of heaven and they have a way to get an additional spell. As with any lore there are some nasty spells in the lore of Heavens and he can potentially do some ugly things in a game this small. If he manages to get the comet spell cast that can make your day very bad very quickly. There is also the possibility of sniping out your characters with lightning spells if they are outside units and you are not careful.

Thnx for the info.

If the question comes up, how could I prove to him ( don't recall seeing it in the BRB) that Skinks don't get ranks, thus also don't cause disruption?

Also the Skink Wizard HAS to choose from the Lore of Heavens. It's in their profile I believe.

They have a special rule known as Channeling. I have not looked it up yet but based on what you said I'll assume that channeling ability allows him to try and get an extra spell. So he's LvL 2 and will get 2 spells, may get 3.

In my mock test I rolled Blowing Wind ( I forget the name) and chain lightening. Yeah chain lightening was bad. lol

I just need to get something into that Skink unit ASAP ( the one with the Wizard) to take it out. Perhaps my Orc Big Boss attatched to the Trolls, go run kill them, reform and get rdy to flank the Saurus?

If I do that, then I'll have my NG with spears march straight for his Saurus ( I'll have to ignore his other skink unit for now).

My NG with bows I can either come up on the side to flank the Saurus from the side opposite the Boss and Trolls, or that unit can see what it can do against the other Skink Skirmish unit.

NG with bows have no armor, so chances are I will take on a LOT of casualties. That's something making me think twice about charging them with the NG with bows. They're more likely to take too many casualties, fail a LD test because of 25%+ casualties taken ( since Boss will probably be far away to use his LD8), then panic and flee and if they are close enough to my NG with spears then they'll cause them to panic ( But they should have no issue since they'll most likely be within range of Boss Ld8 and my BSB).

Hmm......decisions decisions. LoL
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Cannibalbob
Posted: Mar 3 2012, 05:18 AM


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QUOTE (Warbringa @ Mar 3 2012, 04:57 AM)
Trolls will have to be better deployed to make sure they move up and turn accordingly to be able to flank that Saurus unit. In the mock test I did they were only able to go straight into it. Not where I wanted them. Saurus unit failed its LD test and was feared so had WS1. Hitting my Trolls on 5s since to hit River Trolls negates 1 to hit. Hmm...actually, should have been 6's? WS attempting to hit WS 3 would need 5s to hit, right? Don't mind me. It's midnight and I'm tired. lol

Do not rely on fear to help you out much against the Saurus. They rarely fail leadership tests due to the cold blooded rule. The combination of base ld-8 and rolling 3 dice and dropping the highest means they don't often fail unmodified leadership rolls. It can happen, but it just is not very common.

As for the skink wizard and miscasts, according to the normal rules other skinks nearby would be hit by a template. I dunno if there is something in the lizardman book that prevents it, but if there is I think it would apply to the Slaan and not to the skinks. However, there are miscast results that damage other models in base contact. Those results would not hit any other skinks since skirmishers operate 1/2" away from each other and so are not in base contact.
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