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 Stupidity Vs Random Movement
Giblit
Posted: Jan 14 2012, 04:55 AM


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Stupidity on pg76 reads 'A unit that fails it stupidity test...cannot take any further action this turn.'

Random Movement on pg 74 reads 'Models with random movement...are always moved in the compulsory moves sub-phase.'

So can a unit which fails its stupidity test still be moved by their random movement rule?

ie NGwarboss with wizard hat on a giant cave squig.

I would say sure he can move but not cast spells. If he gets into combat he can attack.

Any rule I missed?
Any other interpretations?

inquiring minds want to know.

Thanks!
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Flogger
Posted: Jan 14 2012, 10:33 AM


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I'd say yes, you are correct.

Stupidity failed = move forward 1D6"

Compulsory move = move forward 3D6"

Touch a unit = Charge



This all comes to = AWESOMESAUCE!

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Squigkikka
Posted: Jan 14 2012, 01:35 PM


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You roll your D6, stumble forward and then may take no further action this turn. That means no moving, no charging, no nothing. Just because something is moved in the compulsory phase it does not mean it can always move!

Otherwise, you could just aswell try to argue that something with random movement that has rallied immediately after may move again, which it can't do either.

So, no. You don't move the random movement after failing stupidity because that too is taking an action, and you mat -not-.

This post has been edited by Squigkikka on Jan 14 2012, 01:37 PM
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Noisy Assassin
Posted: Jan 14 2012, 04:27 PM


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I'd agree with Squigkikka. The Stupidity rule supersedes the random movement rule here.
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Giblit
Posted: Jan 14 2012, 06:41 PM


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Yes I see where you are coming from, everything constitutes an action however it also says "the player has no control over movement of such troops" and "are always moved in the compulsory moves sub-phase"

in an effort to be complete I looking into the FAQ for any ruling and found a couple clarifications which deal with stupidity.

pg 7 of the general faq
"what constitutes an action for units which have failed a stupidity test? for example could a character with a healing potion drink it? -- everything counts as an action, so if you have failed your stupidity test you can do nothing at all apart from bumble forward the compulsory d6" This would support your view.

pg7 of the general faq
"can a unit which has failed it stupidity test be forced to move or perform any other action, by a spell, or any other special rule or magic item? -- Yes" This, in my opinion, confirms my view.

Now I know if you have models with different "random movement" characteristics you use the smaller one so I checked back into the Stupidity rule and the d6 from the stupidity rule is done at the Start of Turn Phase not in the Compulsory Phase.

Correct me if i'm wrong but I believe "Random Movement" is a "special rule" so you move.

You said "Just because something is moved in the compulsory phase it does not mean it can always move!"
I agree with this but the only case I can find where the rules where there is not a conflict with other rules is Animosity where it specifically says "can not charge or move in the movement phase"

As you brought this up I will say I do believe you can move with "Random Movement" if you have just rallied because of the order of the Compulsory Moves Phase. Regardless this is a different topic which someone else can start, if they desire, so can we please stay on stupidity and random moves? Thanks.
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Squigkikka
Posted: Jan 14 2012, 09:49 PM


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Moving is taking an action. A unit that has failed its stupidity test may not take any further actions.The compulsory movement phase does not mean "Always moves no matter what", it means "Always moves when it can".

Failing stupidity and rallying both hinder them from moving. So no, you can't rally and then move again.

As per charging after rallying, I'll show you this quote on p. 24

QUOTE
A rallied unit cannot perform further actions during the Movement phase


Moving (and charging) is an action. Indeed, this supports that stupidity too stops it from moving.
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Silver
Posted: Jan 16 2012, 10:36 PM


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You can't use your Random Movement rule when a previous rule (failed Stupidity test) is specific that "no further action may be taken" - it can't get clearer, stop trying to get an advantage out of your unit going Stupid.

Not only does "stupidity" come into play BEFORE random movement, it even breaks the random movement rule since that rule even states "Models with Random Movement are always moved in the compulsory moves sub-phase"

Always is NOT always.
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Shimmergloom
Posted: Jan 16 2012, 11:06 PM


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QUOTE (Squigkikka @ Jan 14 2012, 01:35 PM)
You roll your D6, stumble forward and then may take no further action this turn. That means no moving, no charging, no nothing. Just because something is moved in the compulsory phase it does not mean it can always move!

Otherwise, you could just aswell try to argue that something with random movement that has rallied immediately after may move again, which it can't do either.

So, no. You don't move the random movement after failing stupidity because that too is taking an action, and you mat -not-.

Yes, this was something that was more apparent in 7th edition, when hoppers suffered from animosity.

They could fail animosity and then not be allowed to move in the compulsory phase.
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Skawilly
Posted: Jan 18 2012, 05:54 PM


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I would have to say that the squigs them selves are what provide the movement and not the riders. But if the ruling is no, that makes equally as much sense. What I would truly question is if a fanatic fails a stupidity test, is that the same ruling?
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Flogger
Posted: Jan 18 2012, 07:13 PM


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QUOTE (Skawilly @ Jan 18 2012, 05:54 PM)
What I would truly question is if a fanatic fails a stupidity test, is that the same ruling?

A stupid fanatic still won't stop spinning. It'll move an extra D6" in a random direction before moving another 2D6" in another random direction.

However, the squigs would become stupid as well, there is nothing saying "only the riders are affected by stupidity", are there?

I change my awesomesauce opinion to a...MEH...
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Squigkikka
Posted: Jan 18 2012, 07:22 PM


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Fanatics will also stand still if they fail a stupidity test, why wouldn't they? Once they exit the host unit they are tiny units of their own, and there's nothing I can see that would let them ignore it. Random movement is an action, and a unit with a failed stupidity may not take any actions.
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