Creating An Orc And Goblin Army For 8th Edition, A Beginner's Guide

Creating An Orc And Goblin Army for 8th edition,
A Beginner's Guide

On this forum we have had many great discussion threads on ideas for building an OnG in 8th edition warhammer. By the same token there are a lot of frequently asked questions from newer players such as "how do I arm my boyz?" or "What size unit should I take for X?" It seemed like a good idea therefore to try and pull some of this information together and write a new "beginner's guide" article for building an OnG army.


I should say at this point that the main inspiration for this new guide is the superb Guide Klinctastic wrote for the previous warhammer edition. The new guide below will use much of the same format and layout. I will look at different types of unit and then touch on tactics for using them together, as shown by the table of contents below. All comments and feedback are welcome.

*I may occasionally go back and make minor edits to this guide based on suggestions or feedback. These edits will be marked in red.

Table of Contents
1. Anvil Units
2. Killer Units (Elites)
3. Supportive Units
4. Artillery
5. Characters
6. Selection & Battle Tactics

As you see on the table I have divided the OnG units into 5 main types, a typical army list will include a mixture of all 5 of these types.



1. Anvil Units

The role of these units is two-fold. The first role to be steadfast and hold the line, this pins the enemy chargers in place so that you can either counter-charge with another unit or simply hold them there as long as possible (known tar-pitting). The second role of the anvil unit is to provide static combat resolution (ie. rank bonus and standards) to help swing fights in your favour. For these reasons a typical anvil needs to be as deep as possible with a narrow frontage 5-wide. It also needs the leadership bubble of the warboss and BSB for those crucial break-tests and panic tests. A typical reasonable-sized army of 2400 points will usually have 2-3 of these units. The 3 main candidates for this job are Goblins, Night Goblins and Orc Boyz.

Night Goblins - These gits are most people's preferred choice. The reasons are that they are very cheap so may be taken in large numbers, they can take free spears, and that they can be upgraded with nets and/or fanatics. A sensible unit size is 40-50 models, including nets-upgrade plus standard and musician. Its not really necessary to take a boss unless you plan on putting other characters in the unit and want him to accept challenges. Nets are a must-have item, fanatics are also useful though it is possible to vary the number taken. Spears and hand weapons are both viable, depending on whether you want the extra attacks or the parry saves. In terms of overall combat resolution there is not a huge difference, loosely 1 extra kill vs 1 extra save. On balance the spears probably have a slight edge simply because the Night Goblin rank and file are more expendable. Some players even like to take super-sized Night Goblin anvils of 80-100 models armed with spears. This is made viable by the fact the goblins are so damn cheap, 100 models is still just 300 points + command + nets. These are deployed 10-wide as a horde, not only are they near-impossible to break but with a potential 40 attacks they can also grind down even the most formidable opponents.

Regular Goblins - These guys cost slightly more points than Night Goblins since you have to pay extra for the shields and, if you want them, pay for the spears. Unit size and command options are the same as NG above, 40-50 with standard and musician. For weaponry choice hand-weapons and spears are both viable. Spear-gobbos will perform fractionally better at grinding down an opponent but are also half a point more expensive, so really it comes down to personal choice. Nasty Skulkers are also a useful addition to the unit, as well as stabbing at enemy characters they can create a character-screen in the front rank forcing the enemy to divide his attacks on your unit.

Orc Boyz - These are now 6pts base-cost making them a pretty expensive anvil relative to goblin types who can perform the same holding role with more ranks and for less points. In short, not as good value as they once were. The one redeeming point is that compared with the gobbos they are a bit better when it comes to actual fighting. An orc anvil is typically around 30-35 models, with full command options. Since this is a holding unit with narrow frontage I would personally recommend the hand-weapon & shield equipment option. The other equipment builds are also viable, indeed against 'average' infantry types all 3 builds produce quite similar results on combat resolution - though bear in mind the spears & shields option is more expensive. On balance orcs are ok fighters but not amazing, most of the time your orc anvil will be facing enemy types that are either equal or more powerful.

A Night Goblin Horde with Warboss.



2. Killer Units / Elites

These are your elite fighting units. The most powerful units that will cause most damage to the enemy. The hard-hitters in your list. They can include Savages, Savage Big'uns, Orc Big'uns, Black Orcs, Trolls, Squig Herds and the various types of Boar-rider. Note that virtually all of these unit types can also be taken as smaller supportive units (see section 3 below). What distinguishes them here is the fact they are taken as larger and stronger units.

Orc Big'uns and Savage Orc Big'uns - In the case of both these you are looking at fighting blocks of around 20-25 or even horde units of 40-50 in bigger games. On both these units additional hand weapon is the best option. With a spear-and-shield combo you pay an extra point per model for a benefit to your armour save, a benefit that disappears against S5 or higher, you also lose your precious extra-attacks when charging (and also when reduced below 3 ranks). Of the 2 units Savage Big'uns have the added perks of frenzy and a ward save, for just 2 points extra this is very good value. The Savage Orc Big Stabba is a so-so investment depending on whether your regular opponents like to field large monsters.

Savage Orcs -Regular savage orcs are basically a cheaper semi-elite version of the savage orc big'un. They have to pick fights a bit more carefully but otherwise operate in much the same way.

Black Orcs - Like the big'uns take fighting blocks of around 20-25 or even horde units of 40-50 in bigger games. Note however the latter can be risky as you are putting a lot of eggs in one basket. Black Orcs of course come ready equipped, though you can if you wish take a shield as well for extra protection against shooting. People often debate Black Orcs vs Big'Uns. In short Black Orcs are slightly more expensive and fragile but in return they can be useful in certain roles. As the only unit in the OnG army that can carry a great weapon they are useful for taking down either enemy with high armour saves or big monsters. They are also one of the few OnG units that can operate reliably away from the general's leadership bubble.

Trolls - Starting at just 35pts Trolls are fantastic value. Either Common Trolls or River Trolls represent a good buy. A unit of 6 (2x3) is a good number for a strong hard-hitting unit since in most cases all 6 trolls will get to fight. That gives you 18 attacks, plus 3 stomps! The only downsides are that they limited by needing the general's ld bubble and of course they can get nerfed by flaming attacks.

Squig Herds - Another fantastic choice in 8th edition. 30-35 will give you a solid attacking unit, this can be formed 7-wide to maximise the number of attacks. Alternatively you can build them as an even-more-formidable horde unit with around 50-60 models. Either way low toughness and zero armour/ward makes it essential to take them in large numbers in order to maintain full fighting capacity.

Boar riders - All types are slightly cheaper in this edition, but despite this they are still slightly over-priced. As such they suffer from the general bias against medium & heavy cavalry that exists in 8th edition warhammer. If you do decide to use them a hard-hitting unit then you need around 10 models including musician and standard. This can be slightly fewer if you plan to stuff the unit with characters or decide to upgrade the unit to big'uns. On the savages both additional hand weapon and spear+shield are viable choices. For common orc riders spears+shields is the best choice, well worth the handful of extra points.

Araknarok - I don't have one myself but early consensus seems to be that the base-cost of the Araknarok by itself is about right. The Flinger option is not great since you must shoot after moving charges and can't shoot it into combat. Meanwhile using it as a great-shaman mount has its pros and cons (see characters section below).

Giant - Again I don't use one myself. He is regarded as slightly expensive for what he actually does, but is often used as a 'fun option'.

*At this point its worth mentioning something about magic banners as several units above are eligible to take them. In my opinion a lot of the banner choices in the main rulebook are too overpriced or too dependent on certain situations. There are however four banners I think represent very good value, first and foremost is the Banner of Eternal Flame (aka Flaming Banner), the other three are Banner of Swiftness, Banner of Discipline (for the warboss unit) and Gleaming Pennant (any unit you want to place outside the range of your BSB).

A horde of Black Orcs.



3. Supportive Units

Of all the sections in this guide supportive units covers by far the most diverse range of unit-types. The roles for support units are equally varied, these include providing close support to you main blocks, being able to harass and threaten the enemy, and hunting down enemy war-machines.

Small & Medium Infantry - These support units can be units of orcs or goblins of pretty much any type, typically ranging between 15-25 models. Such units can provide close support to your main anvils, ideally used for making flank charges on an enemy engaged to the front. Alternatively a small to medium support unit can be use to guard the flanks of your main-battleline against the likes of enemy skirmishers or fast cavalry seeking to move around it. A third use for such a unit is a 'bunker' to hide your important characters, this unit sits just behind your main battleline from where characters in the unit can cast spells or provide a leadership bubble to the units infront. Lastly your small Night Goblin units of 20 can be used as additional FDS 'fanatic delivery systems', giving you more options on how and when to lauch these whirling maniacs.

In terms of equipment you have all the same options as the large anvil blocks. On smaller detatchments of around 15 orcs the additional hand weapon is a good option (such a unit will mostly be trying to get flank charges). It is also common for small-medium infantry units to carry bows or short bows. In this way they have further means to harass and annoy your enemy, maybe even cause some significant damage. Greenskin archery is not brilliant but if taken in sufficient numbers your missile troops can certainly prove themselves useful. It is possible to build these units slightly wider, for example orc arrer boyz work well 6 wide since you get the extra shots from the front 2 rows and are still relatively sturdy in close combat. This tactic is less advisable on goblins who are weaker on both counts. A few players however like to take goblin archers in bigger horde units, the theory behind this is that you then try and buff their shooting with either The Spider Banner or the spell Gift of the Spider God.

There is plenty of debate on what is a better points investment for the supporting infantry unit: bows or shields? In the current edition I would say either option is perfectly good depending on your personal preference. Common Goblins however have the unique option to take both shields AND short-bows (a bit like the High Elf Lothern Sea Guard but without spears). This is a really great option that gives you the best of both worlds, I like to call them 'Goblin Sea Guard'. :-)

Fast Cavalry - At current point-prices wolf riders and spider riders are about equal in terms of value-per-point. They are typically taken in units of 5-10. They can be use for war-machine hunting, harassing the flanks of the enemy, or supporting your main blocks with flank charges. A large unit of 10 or more spiders can also be used to storm buildings. It is worth taking at least 1 weapon upgrade on the wolf riders, in other words either spears or short-bows. It is also worth getting a shield for the extra save. Both units will want a musician but the standard is only really worth considering on larger units of 2 or more ranks. Despite their potential uses fast cavalry are also quite fragile. These days many players will opt for just 1 small unit.

Boar Boyz - Boar riders are traditionally used as an expensive hard-hitting unit (see section 2) but taken in a small unit of 5 they can be used in many of the same supportive roles as fast cavalry above. They won't get a vanguard move or other fast cavalry special rules but on the other hand they are a lot more hitty and are that bit more resilient. As discussed in "Killer Units" the Savage Orc riders can take either additional hand weapon or the spear and shield, the common orc rider should take a spear and shield. You don't want to over-price this unit so for command options I would take just a musician.

Troll Detatchment - If you don't want a full-size unit these can also be taken in small units of 1s and 2s. Such units can fit nicely inbetween your anvils to provide those units with close support.

Chariot types, Pump Wagons and Mangler Squigs - Of the two chariots the Boar Chariot is slower but more resilient, making it reasonably suited to providing close support for your infantry in a similar way to trolls above. Wolf chariots, Pump Wagons and Mangler Squigs can be used to sweep down the flanks or simply rush ahead of your main battle-line. The main purpose is to get stuck in and cause as much damage and disruption in the enemy as possible, or at the very least divert the attention of enemy war machines. All these three are relatively good value, strong enough to potentially cause nasty damage but also cheap enough to be expendable. Finally the extra crewman is a good buy for both types of chariot, the extra wolf is generally not good since you don't really want to increase the frontage.

A medium size orc boyz unit.



4. Artillery

Conventional wisdom for a balanced list seems to be that you will want at least two pieces of artillery. (Besides sods law dictates one of them will misfire on turn 1.) Right now Doomdivers and Rock Lobbers are both good choices. The Doomdiver can pick off small heavily armoured units or score wounds on big monsters. The Rock Lobber can pound large units of mass infantry or wound monsters or even smash enemy war-machines. Spear Chukkas are reasonable cost, though comparatively more restricted by things such as long-range and line of sight. They are still used though less popular than before. A Bully is a useful insurance for the extra wound and for panic tests, though vs some opponents you can get away without using one.

A Goblin Rock Lobber with orc bully.



5. Characters

The Warboss - Assuming this character will be your general his most important job is the leadership bubble he provides to your main troops. The orc and savage orc warboss are both pretty solid value and provide good leadership. Black Orcs are not really worth the additional cost, none of their equipment or special rules is really good enough to justify the price difference. As for goblin warbosses their leadership is simply too low for a mixed list. For magic items there are all kinds of sweet-combos out there and I am not going to list them all here. The most important thing is to ensure the warboss has some protection.

Typically the warboss fights on foot in the centre of your battleline in order to extend his leadership bubble to as many units as possible. If you want to be extra cautious you can even place him in a bunker unit behind your front line. It is also viable to field him on a wyvern but you then need extra precautions against enemy war-machine sniping; for this type of character the Charmed Shield is a good buy.

The Battle-Standard Bearer - This is a must have, his most crucial job is to provide those oh so important rerolls so the main thing is keeping him alive. Again I would go for an orc or savage orc just because of the extra toughness and fighting prowess. However if you decide to hide him in a bunker then it is possible to save a few points and swap him for a goblin.

Shamans - Both Little Waaagh and Big Waaagh have some good spells. As for magic levels there are two main strategies. The first is take a lvl4 lord with a lvl1 or Lvl2 apprentice, the lvl4 obviously gets the highest bonus on casting/dispelling attempts and the apprentice is there for backup. Of these two shamen at least 1 should be a Night Goblin in order to gain the mushroom dice and use sneaky stealing on your opponent before casting your big spell. The second strategy is to take a circle of four lvl1 Night Goblin Shamen, this allows you x4 attempts to channel dice and the theory is you use them to spam your opponent with lots of spell attempts (hopefully stealing the odd dispel dice in the process). Where you deploy the shamen will depend in part what spells you rolled, ie. the spells range and if it needs line of sight, also what magic items you bought (see below). However there is one other shaman-tactic I haven't mentioned yet: mounting your great-shaman on an Araknarok spider. This is risky as he will present himself as a masssive target to the enemy, the only real reason for doing it is to take the Spidershrine - this in turn can be maximised by placing several lvl1 casters within range.

In terms of magic items Lucky Shrunken Head is great option for a Savage Orc Shaman, especially if you place him in a horde unit of Savage Big'uns. For a really 'fighty' orc shaman take Fencers Blades then have him cast Fists of Gork spell. Otherwise its always worthwhile picking some Arcane Items to augment your casting/dispel abilities. If your shaman will be on the front-line some protectyness item is not a bad choice either.

Extra Big Bosses & Extra Warbosses - Throwing extra Orc Big Bosses into your units can be fun, though probably not the most efficient way to spend your points. (The possible exception being on a unit of the otherwise mediocre orc-boyz, who frankly need whatever help they can get.)

Meanwhile the Goblin Big Boss with great-weapon represents a reasonably good deal. He is at his best when used in units that have already been joined by other characters, thus forcing the enemy to choose between targets. He can also be useful for issuing/accepting challenges or potentially allowing you to bump another character back into the safety of the 2nd rank. Another alternative is to take an extra Goblin Warboss (with GW). Although he costs nearly double the Big Boss he nonetheless represents reasonable value for his capabilities. It may also be worth throwing in magic armour to grant him some extra durability.

A warboss and shaman, perhaps discussing strategy!



6. Selection and Battle Tactics or 'using all your stuff together'.

In selecting all the unit types listed in the five sections above you need to constantly think about how you will use all these types together. You don't need a hard and fast battle plan set in stone but it does help to have some general idea in mind. It is possible to get into huge depth on tactics and strategy. But for the sake of this article I will simply give few a general points to consider...

- What is your general game plan in using your list? For example do you want an attacking force or a more defensive force?

- Try and anticipate what your opponent might bring to the table and what you need to counter it, making sure you have an appropriate unit.

- Think also about how you would deploy, in particular how many units can you fit within leadership range of your warboss and Battle Standard? An anvil unit with steadfast on leadership 5 is not very steadfast at all.

- Check out the battle-scenarios. The first 5 are not something you really need to tailor your list for too much, but the WatchTower scenario needs some consideration.

***

Finally I hope some of this army-selection guide will prove useful. It is impossible in such a brief guide to cover every possible unit-build or magic item combination. And I didn't even mention the special characters. But hopefully I have covered most of the basics. Any suggestions/feedback is welcome.

This post has been edited by Craze_b0i on Mar 21 2012, 03:06 PM

Great start!

Good start! I have to admit that I am a huge fan of the Big Stabba. Unless you play a lot of garage games, you will be facing off against Abominations and Hydras (and maybe a few other things....like A spiders). The Big Stabba turns a regular infantry unit into something that can take on a monster for only 20 pts. It's one more thing in the list that you can use against these horrible beasts. It is true that it's worth taking in an All Comers tournament list and not worth it if playing with your friends who don't have monsters.

I also am thinking you will change your opinion of boar boyz when it comes to support roles. I agree with what you are saying for the Hammer unit, but you can probably get away with 5 savages for a support unit.

Thanks guys. I posted late last night, just went back in today and edited for typos. More to come soon hopefully.

Looking forward to reading more.

Great job ! I'll be looking forward for updates on this thread.

As soon as I can find time to play a couple of games, I'd really like to chip in with my if possible.

Ok I added the final sections. I didn't set out to cover absolutely everything, but I tried to get in most of the basics. Comment/feedback welcome.

Official request to have this Stickied. Barrels upon Barrels of fungus beer will be delivered to the Orc that can make this happen.

In regard to preparing for scenarios... remember that one requires a minimum number of standards; and you should plan accordingly (my 3k list needed last minute adjustments because I forgot)

Also, a brief mention of Squig Hoppers as a gimicky support unit might be in order, if only to warn the average player off from trying to use them.

Mate, impressive work. I am just trying to finalise a tournament list (due tonight ) and thought I had it sorted, but wasn't happy with it. You have made me have a re-think, and I am liking where it is heading!
My only suggestion is to look a bit more closely at the distict units, but hey, I love what you have done already!

I second the vote for stickiness!

RoV

I disagree with some of the unit descriptions (Orc Boyz, for example!) but otherwise it's very helpful indeed! Nice writing

Definitely a good read

Thanks for writing it up

I agree, very good job. The only change I'd make is in chapter 3. You say that units of 10-20 (and a bit further 10-12) make good support units for flank charges. I'd say these units need to be at least 12, probably 15. Doesn't cost you an arm and a leg to get them at that size. If you actually manage these flank attacks, you are pretty much guaranteed to lose some men. If you start with just 10 you will not take away rank bonus which means a crucial difference of 3 to CR.

I think you are absolutely right. I don't really use these smaller units myself but clearly when I wrote 10-12 I was still thinking in 7th-mode.

Fixed above.

Bump. I was reading some of the other tactics threads on this section for various units like pump wagon or mangler squig. As you will see on the 'beginners guide' there are several support units or creatures that are only touched upon very briefly or not yet listed.

So this is an appeal for help really, if anyone wants to contribute to the beginners guide there are several units the could be reviewed. For example

Snotling Pump Wagon (inc upgrades)
Mangler squig
Squig Hoppers
Giant
Special Characters
Gigantic Spider
Giant Squig

In each case just a single short paragraph on each unit's pros/cons, uses. etc


This post has been edited by Craze_b0i on Apr 13 2011, 02:44 PM