The Ultimate Tournament Army, 8ed

[Angelis]

I'll add my two cents to the BSB argument.

I would never consider leaving the BSB that naked and vulnerable, I'd suck it up and put it on a defensive Warboss (200-250ish points depending on type) and run a bunker behind the lines with a NG BSB in an archer unit for 60 points.

Remember, a dead BSB turns every LD roll into life or death, The warboss can at least accept challenges and mitigate other characters damage, leaving no need for a 15 point champ in the Savage Orcs, or is free to add more CR for the unit otherwise.

A BO BSB with just a shield in the unit most likely to see combat is just a free bonus points and easy win if I were an opponent, I'd just target him with a throw away unit while diverting the unit at the same time.

I know its a cheap LD9, but for 200 points more, you get more wounds, more combat effectiveness, more combat mitigation, and your shaman/general isn't such a high value target (cause if he dies, its game over).

I can see the other side of the coin where that 200 points can be better spent on another hammer unit, but I suppose its my bias to the good ol fashioned Warboss seeping through.

In smaller games I am tempted to go this combo, so it might not be all bad, but in 2500+ no way!

This post has been edited by Angelis on Jan 16 2012, 11:27 AM

[langen]

A Savage Orc BSB might also work since you already have the savage shaman, you've now got a 5+ ward for the extra 15 points and not used your magic item allotment. Which means, you can stick the silvered steel on your BSB for a 2+/5++.

[Snuggles]

I'm sorry, but what do Fencer's Blades do on the shaman? Do they make him hard to hit? I mean he's not that good at attacking. I could see it with fists of gork, since you would take a lvl 4 shaman I could see you probably getting that spell every game, and this making it very ugly for your opponent during challenges. Is there anything else it does?

This post has been edited by Snuggles on Jul 23 2012, 08:47 AM

[Chilledenuff]

The WS10 makes him hard to hit. Always fun to give them to the goblin great shaman on an arachnarok

[Snuggles]

I think Night Goblin Big Bosses w/ GWs are good to have in the Night Goblin unit. IMO we should have at least 3.

Here's the so far "Must Haves":
Savage Orc Great Shaman, L4, Fencers Blade, Lucky Shrunken Head, Obsidian Trinket.
Black Orc BSB, Banner of Discipline, Shield
L1 N Goblin Shaman, Dispell Scroll, Ruby Ring of Ruin
34 Savage Orc Big'Uns, AHW, Command
40 N Goblins, Musician, Standard, Nets
5 Wolf Riders
5 Wolf Riders
30 Squigs 10 Herders
Wolf Chariot
2 Rock Lobbas
2 Doom Divers
2 Mangla Squig

Total 2021pts

So we have 379 points to play with.

If we run the Night Goblins with 3 Night Goblin Big Bosses we'd have this:

3 Nt Goblin Big Boss w/ GW - 102

This post has been edited by Snuggles on Aug 28 2012, 05:40 AM

[Uncertain Foe]

List is beginning to look pretty good.

Sorry if this is questioning elements which have been proven but -
Are wolf riders really that useful. I've had problems with reliability and revlevancy.

Animosity makes it problematic to use them as redirectors and there have been plenty of times when I've found it hard to locate a target soft enough for them to be of use. I may be using them wrong but sometimes they've been great, sometimes they've been pointless, or free points.

I take it others have had more success?

On the chariot front I lean a little more towards boar chariots with an extra crewman. Yes, they do the same impact hits for 40 more points but then they have 5 strength 5 attacks, are toughness 5 with a better armour save an more wounds.
This seems to let me charge, do damage, flee (but survive with swift stride) only to come back later in the game for a second bite at the cherry.
They also seem to do better in multiples (I run 3).

Another element I really like with the savage orc unit, are single trolls. They stay within the leadership bubble and can redirect all other frenzies (like corsairs or 'letter hordes), at the same time as blocking our own charge paths to guarentee no awkward charging to our doom.

I'm also really liking the idea of the night goblins with the 3 (or more) Big Bosses.

Thoughts on wolf riders, chariots and trolls?

[TheAlternate]

Yes wolf riders are that usefull. not sure if an allcomers list needs 2 of those units, because some options in our book are something similar and might fit certain tactix better, depending on the rest of the list.

I arm WolfRiders with Spears by default, whenever they charge a flank or machine, those spears can save the wolves from fluffing their most important charge ever.
if you do not have spears, you do not even have a proper chance of bashing an average Dwarf crew. And it's cheaper than the stupid standards...

wether trolls are a must have i do not know.
They are very strong, but because their Stupidity forces them to stay near the bubble, you also limit your choices in deployment, especially with 2500 pts there's a problem with deploymnt allready. In the current list there might be a place for them. id vote for a 7 strong troll unit then.

Wolf chariots are allways good.

[Snuggles]

Personally I take at least 6 Night Goblin Big Boss and 1 Goblin Big Boss. I'm sure most consider this overkill, however, I think they are too good not to take full advantage of. With Netters their thoughness is essentially 5; I love it! Also they have a nice, cheap bunker to go with them. And equiped with spears they are essentially a good killer for smaller units, such as Skaven Slaves. IMO it's one of my best unit, if not the best unit aside from SOBUs. What do you guys think? IMO we should at least take 3 Nt Goblin Big Bosses.

[Johnny-Crass]

Is Sword of Anti-Heros popular around you? Because if so those Goblins are just easy points.

[Snuggles]

O wow. Didn't think of that. That would be pretty funny if that ever happened though.

[Snuggles]

From my knowledge, you can always look at an opponents army list. So if you see a Sword of Anti Heros just avoid it. But if that item is popular then I would just stick with 3 Night Goblins Big Bosses.

[Gorks_wundapantz]

Horde of trolls! Its damage out put is massive (54 ws 3 s5 attacks + 6 stomps)
ITP, Regen, Fear they can cannon-shield, they can vomit off high armour units like knights and with a goblin big boss on wolf with dragon helm to tie up the unit with the flaming banner and hand of gork to redeploy turn 1.

these combat monsters will have your opponent crying from the time you place them on the table, until you have removed all his toys.

[SneakyGit]

I like where the list is going.

I think a large group of Trolls (8) has better sustainability over a squig herd.
I think because they are so close in points they could be listed as an either/or option.

I think a unit of 2 Wolf Chariots is Super Effective and Cheap!! 2d6+2 Impact Hits at S5. People have a hard time choosing what to kill between that, manglers, and pump wagons. Running two units is even better.

And where are the pump wagons? Random movement 4d6 with 2d6S4/5 Impact hits is waaaaay better than 5 Wolf Riders and the points are very close! Your opponent can't run away or stand and shoot! Close in my book to Manglers.

[gingerali1]

I agree, the trolls are a stronger choice, but maybe less so with no ld 9 general?

also yer i think pump wagons are worth having maybe some chukka's as well

interesting thread

[Novos]

Hey all!

Loving this forum and all the great O&G discussion.

This list looks absolutely amazing! I have a few comments about it though...

1.) I believe that not playing a warboss is incredibly irresponsible. This list is just asking for a bloodthirster to smash into the front lines and kill the shammy and the big boss by turn 3.

2.) Lobbas are useless. They might come through every 3rd game but thats not good enough for a competitive list. My past 3 games I've played 2 and they've done nothing. Even if you make the 1/3 chance to hit what you want, you still have to deal with the 1/6 chance that you'll misfire. If you manage to beat that you have to worry about rolling a 1 to wound, and if you beat that you have to worry about the 50% chance to roll a 1, 2, or 3 for D6 wounds, which sucks and essentially wastes the shot. Save 160 points and put it towards something else. Doom Divers tend to pay for their points so I say keep em in.

3.) Switch out squig herds for trolls. We need a can opener, and no unit in our army does it better than vomit attack. Demigryphs and chaos knights will laugh at squigs. High armor save doesn't give 2 dungs about strength 5. Trolls on the other hand can utilize the vomit attack to cause massive wounds on said units, especially in deadly units of 8. Definitely the better choice. Vomit ignores armor saves. And 6+ regen essentially means 6+ ward save against most attacks.

4.) 3 Night Gobbo big bosses are a must. Turns a tarpit unit into a tarpit/grinder unit, opponents rarely expect it. Those 9 WS4 S6 attacks can be deadly. And the unit is still fairly cheap even with the bosses.

Keep up the great work!!! We should work on a 2K point variation for this.