What I Think Should Change For Orc And Goblins

This is what I think needs to be changed in the book:

1.Give fanatics back their choice of direction when you roll a hit on the scatter
2.Make the gaint less expensive, like 150-165 pts.
3.Change the points of squig hoppers to 10 points, or change their rulings.
4.Make the hero and lord choice for having a squig as a mount less expensive.
5.Make River Trolls and Stone Trolls less sxpenive by to 40-42 pts.
6. Give the Sone Toll back his ward save.
7.Maybe reduce goblin and night goblins pt costs to 2.5 pts
8.Orc boys to 5-5.5 pts then reduce the sav ors by same amout
9.Reduce the cost of Boar boys and SOBB by 1-2 pts
10.Reduce the cost of snotlings by 5-10 pts
11.Give Black orcs their shields for free.
12.Reduce the cost of the giant spider to 250-260 pts.
13.Reduce the cost of some of the special characters.

I would like to see more tournament rules incorperate these changes. What I really want to see is every units be playable in a tournament
environment.

Anyone else agree with some of these rules?

This post has been edited by Snuggles on Dec 18 2011, 06:06 PM

I honestly have very few problems with the book as it is written now. I have a lot of trouble selecting my army because I want to take everything, nothing strikes me as being "always better" or "always worse". The only thing I would say is that the Giant is a bit too pricy, especially considering all the other golden units you can get in Rare for the same or less points.

I agree on points 1, 2, 3, 4, 10 and 13. Not so sure of the others, most of our troops don't need to be cheaper.

Blackorcs need Full Plate armour, with options for shields. The other point decreases seem a bit uncalled for IMO, especially the Gobbos to 2.5p and making Trolls even cheaper, they're perfect bordering on too cheap as it is! Boarboyz are OK right now, I guess dropping them by 2p wouldn't be OP, but not exactly needed either.

However, I'd like all gobbos to have the option of free shortbows and spears. Start with light armour, +1p for shields. The Skulkers/Fanatics/Nets and the theme would be enough of a distinction I think. Both start at 3p.

Theo

I think 1-point reductions are in order for orc boyz, and probably savage orcs - with big'uns of both type staying the same. Also cheaper giant, snotlings, boar boyz, squig hoppers and the Gigantic Spider mount (the monstrous beast one).

However I see no justification for cheaper Night Goblins or trolls, those are 2 of the best units we have! What does need to happen is an equalization between NG and Common Goblin, right now the NG gets free spears and shortbows but Common Goblin does not.

This post has been edited by Craze_b0i on Dec 20 2011, 01:42 PM

Also on the Squig Hopper's rules I think extra boingy should be on a score of two or more sixes or maybe be an automatic impact hit 1 reguardless of scored dice for the unit. Also maybe roll an extra dice for this if two or more sixes are scored?

This post has been edited by Snuggles on Dec 20 2011, 04:27 PM

I believe that the giant, orc boar boys and squig hoppers are about the only things that could do with a slight drop in points but I'm not gonna cry if they dont. Everything else is fine for me in the new book.

My argument that River and Stone Trolls need to drop in price by about 3 pts is that they need to be playable since players would say the extra 10 pts on them isn't worth the cost. I just want to see every model be playable in a tournament list.

This post has been edited by Snuggles on Dec 22 2011, 01:25 AM

Well I guess they could drop Stone Trolls in cost as no-one ever uses them. But I think Rivers are ok as they are.

Any doubles would be nice, and would actually come into play once in a while.

Theo

If you want Change

When ever you play a girl warhammer player
you should let her win

Well a real Gentleman would

I also think they should either change the Wyvern's rules or make him less expensive like somewhere around 100 pts.

Okay. If you play with those reductions, there is no way it's gonna get fair. All your changes make all our units capable of going toe to toe with anything head on, and that's not the point of the game.

1.Give fanatics back their choice of direction when you roll a hit on the scatter
Fanatics are plenty good as it is.

2.Make the gaint less expensive, like 150-165 pts.
Valid point. But i Can't see him being cheaper than 165 pts. I would much rather see him get Toughness 6

3.Change the points of squig hoppers to 10 points, or change their rulings.
Squig hoppers are pretty good actually. They just need to choose their targets. The idea of making any double give devastating charge is nice though!

4.Make the hero and lord choice for having a squig as a mount less expensive.
It's pretty cheap for a lord actually. Put him in with some squig hoppes, and those ladz can do wonders

5.Make River Trolls and Stone Trolls less sxpenive by to 40-42 pts.
No

6. Give the Sone Toll back his ward save.
He never had a ward save... The problem is that magic resistance isn't good enough. But that's a change to the core rules

7.Maybe reduce goblin and night goblins pt costs to 2.5 pts
I don't see why

8.Orc boys to 5-5.5 pts then reduce the sav ors by same amout
No, and definitely no.

9.Reduce the cost of Boar boys and SOBB by 1-2 pts
Both really have their uses, And I think they are appropriately priced

10.Reduce the cost of snotlings by 5-10 pts
fair

11.Give Black orcs their shields for free.
Not agreeing. Those guys are already really good

12.Reduce the cost of the giant spider to 250-260 pts.
Again, I think it would make it too good!

13.Reduce the cost of some of the special characters.
I have no idea about special characters

I also think they should either change the Wyvern's rules or make him less expensive like somewhere around 100 pts.
100 pts?? for flying monster with the stats of a wyvern? 160 is fine! That thing can kill an entire army on its own, because it can pick its targets

One not mentioned yet is the orc big bosses, if they were a few pts cheaper you could make more use of them other than just BSB.

I mostly agree with MortenC's points. Most of the suggested changes are just wishlisting. I do see legitimate issues with the cost of Snotlings and Giants though. And better thought out magic items would be nice. Hoppers getting their bonus on any doubles rather than just double 6's was actually my very first thought when I read their entry in the new book. And maybe some form of special rule where the Squigs WS and attacks are primary despite being cav - so opponents would attack vs WS 4, and supporting squigs would get an attack, but supporting riders wouldn't (they're too busy hanging on for dear life while the Squigs jump over each other to get to the enemy!). Oh, and the Flinger really needs an improvement of some kind. Maybe have it reduce enemy unit's M and I by D3?

Edit: Just thought of another one: there doesn't seem to be a reason that goblin shamans can take wolves as mounts but not giant spiders, and orc shamans shouldn't have to wait until they are great shamans to be able to have a chariot mount.

This post has been edited by Noisy Assassin on Jan 14 2012, 05:54 PM

I mostly agree with Snuggles, also if there"s better rule for choppas , orc boyz have always low I,D and animosity so to be back at 5 points it seems fair in my opinion and so to have the same point cost of boar boys of the old 6th edition and just to wishlist a bit more same stats as they were in 6th for black orc champions and big bosses.