Ideas For 8th Ed O&gs.

Greetings.
I wanted to start a thread to discuss on what we would like to get in our 8th ed book.
It is commonly known that our curent book is abit of a let down compared to our 6th ed book. (There were some positives though).

Here's a list of changes I would like to see in our next book.

1. Animosity
-Tests are taken after charge moves.
-Return the animosity chart to how it worked in 6th ed. (i.e first roll a 1 then you roll to see what happens)

2. Quell animosity
-Units take D3 wounds instead of D6.

3. Magic items
-Battle axe of the Last Waaagh! - 85pts
-Ulag's akk'rit axe - Always +1 str.
-Warboss Ironclaw's Waaagh cleava - 85pts
-Backstabba's blade - 20pts
-Skull Wand - 30pts
-Bring Back Krumpa's Club of Crumpin (No armur save weapon)
-Porko's Pigstikka - +2 Str instead of +1.
-Armour of Gork - 35pts.
-Bring Back Drog's Dead 'Ard Armour (1+ Armour save that cannot be improved)
-Bring Back Armour of Mork (Armour and MR(2) - 35pts)
-Amulet of Protectyness - 20pts
-Effigy of Mork - 30pts
-Bring Back magical War Paint (Savage Orc 5+ ward - 20pts)
-Maad's Map - 15pts
-Staff of Sneaky Stealin - 40pts.
-Gorks Waaagh Banner - 20pts
-Rowdy Grott's Big Red Raggedy banner - 45pts, and Immune to Panic instead of re-roll panic.
-Spider banner - 25pts
-Bad Moon on a Stick - 35pts

3. Magic
-Any Goblin units of 20 models or more generate PD and DD like in 6th ed.

4. Characters
-Goblin/Night Goblin Big Bosses are a 2-1 Hero choice.
-Chariots don't take up special slots
-The Giant Spider and The Great Squig Causes Fear and are both 35pts.
-BSB works like current army books

5. Core
-Orc, Arrer and Savage Orc command cost are 4/8/10 (Mus/Standard/Boss)
-Goblins and Night Goblin command costs are 3/6/6.
-Big'Un's upgrade for Orcs and Savage orcs are +2 pts.
-Goblins and Night Goblins are 2pts base. Plus 1/2 a pt for short bows with each. (The new Skaven book sees the return of Half points)
-Wolf Riders are 10pts base
-Spider Riders are 12pts base
-Snotlings are 15pts a base

6. Special
-Boar Boyz and Savage Boar Boyz get a 4pt decrease
-Big'Un upgrade is 3pts.
-Black orcs regain Quell animosity and have 2 attacks base. 14pts base.
-Goblin Chariots are a 2-1 Special Slot

7. Rare
-Both Troll upgrades are +10pts.

Okay there we go. Thats somethings I would like to see.
What about you?

cheers.

This post has been edited by Backstabba Zog on Oct 26 2009, 01:48 AM

I'd like to see an official change NOW. We know that's not happening anytime soon. Oh well.

Great write up. You hit all the key points. Compared to how the other armies are your point values aren't unreasonable.

The main point I see is that Orc&Goblin players have to fight to make a competitive list now and even then our list are still "mediocre."

This post has been edited by slannfrog on Oct 26 2009, 02:23 AM

My very first army was Skaven. I loved the guys not many people played them they were underrated (minus the cheese list most used with a large number of shooty things) and I loved it. Rumour came around Skaven were getting a new book, in 09 (it was 05 when I started them, 08 when I heard the rumour) so I sold my beloved skaven army which lead me to many victories.

Orcs and goblins are underrated. We dont have many great things. Our rules are showing their age and the book wasn't that good to begin with. So naturally I began gathering my vampire counts army to sell (once I realized how unnaturally good they were) and decided to head for lower ground, so to speak. The new skaven army book was around the corner. I had a choice to make- I needed a new army. Skaven, yes I loved them, I served the horn rat well, but it wasn't my style. I wanted to kick heads him, bash skulls. Skaven were not designed to do that. Orcs and Goblins... however...

I came here and lurked. For months, reading, watching. Then one day I made up my mind. I saw some of the people at underempire crying about our new rules, which actually made the list even CHEAPER in points and gave them a lot of what they wanted, and they still complained. I was in shock. How could they denounce this? We are sitting on crap for rules, supposedly an upgrade from out old book, and they complain about cheaper troops?

We don't got good stuff. We have alright stuff. But by golly, I love our army, and I love the models. I am gonna stick with the ladz no matter what happens. I hope people read this and remember why they started playing this game. It's not always about winning, it's about having fun!

ORCS ARE DA BEST! HERE'S TO A BRIGHTER FUTURE AND (HOPEFULLY SOON) A BETTER RULEBOOK!

I have to agree mostly with what Mike Oliver said. You know, i just want our army to be in the middle of the pack. Not too good and not too bad. Right now i love the fact that i really have to think out my army lists and strategies just to be competitive. What bothers me though is the fact that my bro plays VC, and the best i can do is draw. I've only ever beaten my bro once since the new rules came out........it's sad. Mind you i have a blast playing every time, my bro is the one that got fed up of winning without even trying lol

To go back on topic: in this rulebook, I think Matt Ward messed up a lot of things, and my personal opinion of him is that he's a joke.Big Red Banner should be immune to panic for that unit like Oliver mentioned, Mork's totem shouldnt be restricted to Orcs only. Dont get me started on the Magic Armour section

Spells in little Waaagh need a reduction in casting cost (the spells cost too much and the miscast table is rediculous). Goblin chariots and Big Bosses should be 2 for 1............you know what, im already fed up of writing this article. All im asking is to make Goblins a freakin blast again. YOu know they're still fun to play, but for crying out loud, Goblin hordes just arent what they use to be. Matt absolutely killed the gobbies. That's my opinion, and ive been pissed since this editions book has been released.

Ahhh......it's been a few months and time for this type of a thread to come up again. Yes, this has been discussed quite a bit.

Personally, I think that the idea that OnG stuff should hurt us as well as help us is not a good idea. There are a few things that should be toned down or removed.
-All magic items that have a chance of hurting the user should not do so (horn and itty ring)
-Quell Animosity should be d3
-When you call Waaagh!, a "1" doesn't hurt you. Also, you should be immune to Psychology for the round you do it.
-If you roll a "1", you should have to auto-charge, like frenzy if there is a unit in range.

Those changes still hamper us, but don't cripple us.

Besides that, there should be a few other changes
-Black Orcs become either stubborn or Immune to Fear or get dropped in points
-Big 'uns become cheaper
-Boar boyz (both kinds) need to be cheaper
-All goblins should start off with spears, as well as hand weapons for free
-Give some sort of rule that one goblin unit gets a free magic banner somehow. Maybe it's if you take a Goblin Warboss or maybe it's just a rule, but that's the only way you will actually see those goblin banners in the game
-Make the spells cheaper
-Make the miscast table not so nasty (or bring back that ignore miscast item)

You know, with just those changes, we would be doing a lot better, but not crazy.

I am in agreement with all that has been said so far. Yes we could do with an upgrade but we are Orcs&Golbin players and we can live with it thats what make us so unique as a group of poeple. We don't complain much and we accept what we are given. We never go out to smash are opponents we don't always make cheesy lists, we play for fun and thats why we play O&G.

Skar

i think units armed with missile weapons and in range of the enemy should not test for animosity as the orcs would probably be too preoccupied with the prospect of killing 'umies and such to bother with squabbling Not sure if that would turn out fair in game terms though, just a thought.

This post has been edited by Piccolo on Oct 26 2009, 02:03 PM

if they would restore some of the things that pee-ed me off big time about the 7th ed. i would be happy.

porko pigstikka: not rank BONUS, but justs ranks.

snots.....work like a real swarm again

wolf riders.....stop messing with the shields and light armour. (if you know what i mean)

Big Uns.... normal points again.

Black orc.... let us choose, and save points

This would be terrific if it would ever be implemented.

On the whole I quite like the book, things that immediately jump out at me are the points cost of units.

I think just about every unit across the board needs to be made cheaper in varying degrees. Trolls, war machines, fanatics and maybe hoppers and chariots (although the 2 gobbo chariots for 1 slot should never have been removed especially with the way chariots/US and negate ranks works now) seem to be spot on for what they're worth although stone and especially river troll upgrades certainly need cheapening.

Change the thrice-damned idiotic miscast table, O&G magic is not nearly powerful enough to warrant such punishment. Shutting down magic phases is something we can do quite well and relatively cheaply but it would be nice to have a bit more of an even playing field if we chose to go magic heavy.

A few more magic banners and champions in units being able to directly influence animosity results would be great as well.

This post has been edited by Tar Irontooth on Oct 26 2009, 03:21 PM

Great thoughts in the above...here's my

I think comparing how the High Elves gained a MASSIVE amount of punchy with little, or in some cases no, point costs increase is a good indicator of how the O&G should be approached.

+Bring back about 50% of the slashed magic items from 6th list...
+Animosity back to a roll of 1 and then chart...
+Add in that units already in melee receive first strike when the Waaagh is called along with unengaged units moving.
+The General, his unit, and any unit within 6" get the auto 6 when Waaagh is called.
+Units rolling a 1 when Waagh'ed don't squabble. It's a 1 per game ability, give it some TEEF!
+Figure out a way to get an Orc mounted unit down to 2+ armor save...heck, give any Big Un unit the option to upgrade to Heavy Armor...
+go back to 2 goblin chariots for 1 slot
+allow more range on who can mount on a Wyvern...they're not all that spectacular
+give Giants +1 T or +1 Wds...and bump the cost to 275 if so

Just some random thoughts to bring things more in line with the more recent lists.

This post has been edited by Keltheos on Oct 26 2009, 04:17 PM

I like making giants T6! They would be a true force to be reckoned with.

I don't know why people want you to roll a 1 and then the old Animosity chart? The new way is much simpler and better for us overall. That is if you consider rolling a 6 a good thing. I do.

I DON'T want to see wolf chariots becoming 2-for-1 again. It pretty much meant that every list had 4 spear chukkas and 4 wolf chariots. I was very tired of seeing those lists. I want some variety.

Not if Borcs, Bboyz savage and otherwise got cheaper/better

Dark Elves got a rulebook update long before their new book came out. Why can't we? How do we go about doing this? I want us ladz to make change!

I suppose we could send a giant list to GW with all the thing we want. As long as it gets to Phil Kelly (writes many of the powerfull army books these days) then we shall be fine. Hows about it ladz

Just a long shot but it woul be funny

Skar

This post has been edited by Skartooth The Third on Oct 26 2009, 06:18 PM

I want boar chariots with an extra boar upgrade.