Night Goblins Units In Mixed Lists, Weapons? Size? Character?

I'm planning a mixed army list also including goblins, orc boyz, big uns and black orc units, but I need to decide on what to do with my night goblin unit. I'll only have one, sticking to my fluff/theme idea, and their main use will be to release fanatics on the enemy.

So what's your opinion on night goblin units in mixed armies? Next to Big Uns and Black Orcs, they'll be quite useless in combat, so should I take the cheap option of 20 models for fanatic delivery, or should I go 30 strong and a few options to make them tougher in combat? For a small unit I'm tempted to try out short bows, since I wouldn't care to have them go toe-to-toe with anything anyway, is that a good option? Or should I stick to hand weapons and hope they can tie up enemy units long enough for my hard-hitters to join in the fray?

I've read that night goblin combat units require a character to add that much needed punch in combat? I don't have characters slots available, they're leading more important units, so perhaps that makes a larger unit a waste of points?

Anyway, you all delivered lots of insightful knowledge on the BSB debate, so I'd love to hear your thoughts on this one too.

Hi Trollhoer,

I think 20 would be fine. Give em bows and make use of them for fanatic delivery and then large target hunting. Every model in range in the unit gets a shot at a big beasty. with 10 to 20 shots you should pick up a few hits and maybe even a wound or two.

You could also use them to set up your heavier units for the charge. If they choose to flee or are forced to it doesn't effect your Orcs due to Size Matters. Remember that like all our units these guys are expendable. DOnt be afraid to get them killed if it gives ou an advantage.

Cheers

I agree with Xam. Short bows and units of 20. That makes them Fanatic Delivery Systems. Then, they all shoot at any large creature or unit on a hill. They are also great for diverters or redirectors. The next DWQ will have an article that goes into all that whenever it comes out.

Cheers guys, I like the idea of cheap units you don't expect anything from that may surprise you, instead of moderately cheap units you expect something from that end up disappointing you.

When is a good time to go for larger night goblin units then? Are characters leading them compulsory in order for them to be effective? Do larger units of them even have a place in mixed list?

Depends what you expect night goblins to achieve in battle.
Unit of 25-30 n.goblins with nets and fanatics can secure your flank and hava a chance of breaking enemy support units (5 CR and virtual t4 makes them almost as solid as orcs). If you expect your goblins to stand ground and maybe even break nastier enemy units join a hero to them. One of quite usefull options is to deploy BOBSB carrying spirit totem with them - 32 gobbos are good for holding rank bonus, enemy requires to kill 9 for panic, and nets make your bsb harder to kill in combat.

But if you already have got 4-5 (in 2k army) combat units, then ther is no need to deploy another one and its better to use night gobbos for fanatic delivery.

This post has been edited by Charki on Oct 4 2009, 04:40 PM

With an army as unpredictable as O&G, I rate versatility very highly, and for this reason I'd recommend a medium sized unit (25-30) with nets and perhaps a fanatic or two. A musician is pretty much mandatory but I'd probably not bring a banner unless you have special plans for the unit, as they're some of the crappiest troops in Warhammer whichever way you look at it. With this config, they can do most things but you're not putting too many VP's on the line. Using NG's as a main combat unit is sheer stupidity IMO - if you want troops that are effectively T4 with a 4+ save, Orcs got it, and all the time too.

A note on the nets - keep in mind that they work throughout the combat phase in which they are employed, so if the enemy charges the NG's, gets netted, then hammers them and pursues into another unit, they're still at -1S for that round of combat. Probably not something that comes into play often but it's handy when you need to soften the blow of a frenzied or hating enemy. If you're really savvy you could combine it with a hero wearing the Armour of Gork for an effective toughness of 7. To all but the hardest enemies, that pretty much equals hitting a brick wall!

This post has been edited by Reiks on Oct 4 2009, 04:50 PM

In larger games I use a large block of Night Goblins to help protect Gorbad. You can do that with all Orc Characters... use the nets to give them effectively one higher toughness. You also almost always have good static combat res in such a unit and the character can add a little bit of punch. I use this as an anvil unit. But you are right, these units really have 2 ways to go. Cheap, no character boss or banner, or all the way with a banner, character, and boss to protect the character from challenges.

-Myst

I have to admit that I have never really found a use for night goblins larger than 20. Then again, I haven't experimented much with them....

I often run a unit of 27 night goblins with nets, 0-2 fanatics, hand weapon+shield (default) and musician. I put a big boss with wollopa's and the tricksy trinket on a wolf inside. I use them towards the flank. They're pretty good at beating moderately tough cavalry, and people tend to avoid them with really tough cavalry units for fear of the fanatics.

The boss can charge 18" out of the unit to get some beat-down on something, sheltering inside until needed. He's only 55 or so points, so he's expendable enough.

Bows are cool too, but the 5+ armor save against troops who have been netted can save some damage.

Hi,
Why not a 25 goblin cheap unit? +5 more goblin provides you to take panic test in 7 casulties instead of 5. Leadership of Big Bosses (Ld:8) is not so high to fail.

Hi,

I tend to run both types of NG units: I use a 25-30 unit of netters + 2 fanatics + FC to use as a pseudo-anvil (mainly due to static CR), and they've worked very well in all my games. Other times, I choose to play a 21 - 25 unit of NG archers with only 1 - 2 fanatics and no command units as the fanatic delivery system many people have already pointed out.

NGs suck at combat but it's really a matter of when do you use them in combat, and against whom. Just don't expect to kill anything with them, especially with archers

I've seen a few lists with 21 night goblins instead of the minimum 20. Why do people keep units like that?

Cause you will need to lose 6 goblins before you need to take your first panic check. I saved me several times.

Greetz
G

Exacly. 3pts more for higher panic immunity is a bargain

Well if I was using Night Goblins in a mixed army, I'd equip them one of two ways;

21 NGs w. Musician, 1-2 Fanatics and Nets - 127/152

21 NGs w. Short Bows, Musician, and 1-2 Fanatics - 92/117

In a mixed army, NGs are best used as a support unit that either guards a flank or supports the orcs in combat. In both cases, you don't want a standard bearer since it's an easy 100VPs for a unit that is rather easy to run down. NG Champions are only useful if you've got a character in the unit, but musicians are worth while for the +1Ld for rallying.

I'd recommend against 3 fanatics simply because it costs so many points. When it comes down to it, a determined opponent can neutralise the usefulness of your fanatics so it's not worth investing too many points in them.

For flank protection, you don't expect the unit to be anything more than a deterent, so short bows are at least useful should you find a large target or a unit on a hill to shoot at. But if you're supporting orcs, the addition of nets can effectively give the Orc unit it accompanies +1T and +1AS. That's potentially T5, 3+AS orcs, not to mention whatever hero might also be in that unit!

This post has been edited by Dranthar on Oct 12 2009, 06:21 AM