Guide To Fighting The Skaven (8th Ed.), Post your anti-Skaven tips and strategy!

[Airtruck]

Got tips and strategies that work well against the Skaven? Share them here with other warlords! Since the release of the new 8th edition, the game has changed a great deal and new tactics must be developed and discussed in order for da greenskins to crump ‘em good!

[bigmeangreen]

well. just so happens that i fight a skaven player weekly right now....

they're a tough nut to crack this edition. basically they are THE steadfast army.

straight to the truth though, I have never beat them yet (this ed.), only massacred to the last man (once my gen and an NG bowman were the only guys on the board) in all 6 games.

however, losing is the best insight on how to win.

-kill that ugly rat general. i don't care if its a warlord or a grey seer. they're weak, and you can kill them (don't challenge!). until you kill them they grant LD 7 (+3 for ranks) to their 50-100 man slave blocks - meaning you'll have to grind them down to ~15 men before they break. (this is a losing situation as they are cheaper and more numerous and win attrition vs us)

-kill that ugly rat BSB - for all reasons too innumerable to list.

-flank attacks may not break his steadfast, but they break his ranks. meaning no +3 LD. steadfast at LD 7 (or often LD5 if the gen is dead) is much better than steadfast at 10.

-anchor your unit's flanks with dangerous terrain and TAKE the charge.

-you will not outnumber him. period. get the ladz to redirect his attention - this can be done by the old 7th ed. wolfboy bait trick (though the wolfies get chased down 99% of the time, it does pull one of his units 2d6+5" away from the rest).

good luck. i'd love to hear some success stories.

PS as many frakkin warmachines as possible is a nice way to tip the scales.

[Groznit Goregut]

A savage orc shaman with the Skull Wand in a unit of savage orc boar boyz (maybe with the +1 attack banner) can kill a number of the big and nasty things Skaven have: Doomwheel or Abomination. Combine with the spells that allow you to attack first and re-roll misses is best.

'Eadbutt spell and the itty Ring can be used to take out Skaven characters. Oh, there is the Goblin spell that has the big, green hand, but but it requires Init test. Rock Lobbas are good as they might miss their "Look Out, Sir!" roll.

Savage Orc Boar Boyz are also good for hitting flanks of big units, especially Slaves. Only 1 rank will get to attack back. They are only slaves, so probably won't kill much. The savages will get to kill a lot and probably keep Frenzy. I bet you can chew through a lot of slaves with just 5 of the guys.

Throw big units of Night Goblins vs. Slaves.

[Goreaxe Skullcrusher]

skaven can be really hard to fight. iv only played 2 games against them and the 1st was an extremly narrow win(the second the player was a complete idiot and i won the game losing under 20 models). my 1st word of advice is kill the abomination!!! its really nasty. and take at least 3 blocks. preferably orcs cause they will have no problem killing anything(even the stormvermin cause they arent that good). and kill the general because after that they wont be able to do well with their ld5. and DONT challenge him. he can just decline and units can still use his ld. and take a bunch fast cav because since skaven have non their easy to flank and will really help you break them.

[Cloudburst]

I am looking for advice on what to bring / how to beat a skaven army like the following (2400 ish points)

grey seer on bell in 60+ clan rat horde unit (also has an assassin)
bsb sits in stormvermin
couple more units of clan rats
a-bomb
2 cannons
flame throwers for his weapon teams.

I am having problems with taking the army, the best I have done is a draw against it.

Thanks for any helpful advice.

[Draig]

First up what's your list, and is that his entire list? Odd not to take any Slaves.

General advice. Weapon teams are high risk, and can be taken apart with shooting pretty easily. A Warpfire team is over 70- points, so that can give you some useful VPs before you engage. They won't panic the blocks, but it gets them off the table. The Bell is far less nasty than the Furnace kitted out, so that's something.

No Gutter Runners means you can field warmachines with impunity. I'd take several here. It's up to you what you target. Abomb, or cannons are really your big threats early on. Flaming banner is a necessity for dealing with the Abomb, perhaps on a spear unit for the extra attacks, though charging it is best as it removes the impact hits (D6 S6). If you can charge with Trolls, that's no impact hits and no Thunderstomp, against regeneration of your own. Unit of 6 could be useful here. A few Manglers could also be useful as they are cheap, disposable, and very nasty if they get into combat. Arachnarok will likely not survive with two canons on the board.

A Skaven army relies so heavily on their Leadership. Take out even on link in that chain, and it will start to crumble. First target is the BSB. Unless he's running 3 characters in the unit (if he is, plaster the thing with artillery), direct all base to base attacks against the BSB. He'll either be running a banner (perhaps Storm or Underempire), in which case he'll have a 4+ save an no ward, or a defensive set up, in which case you'll maybe need a character of your own. No slaves makes this job a LOT easier.

Try and lure the Bell unit into combat. That's the last place he wants it to be. Yes it's a very large unbreakable unit, but Clanrats are rubbish, and the bell lacks the Furnace's Wrecker and fog attacks. Plus it gives you a chance to go for the Seer.

One final thing. Watch out for SKitterleap. Honestly it's the most useful spell in the deck, over and above 13th. A skitterleaping Doom Rocket or Brass Orb Warlock can ruin your day with a large horde army, so try and contain them if possible.

[Cloudburst]

I have tried several lists against it and have not had much luck.

I usually bring for my rares

1 Arachnarok
1 doom diver
1 rock lobber

Specials
unit of black orcs with flaming banner (I have had this unit lose 18 orcs in 1 round of combat against the A-bomb)

Core
Have tried the big unz savage orc horde, also tried a bunch of smaller units instead (savage, regular, big unz)

Typically I run a level 4 orc and a level 2 night goblin

My opponent likes to hold back for a turn or two and then run the bell unit up and into combat, then while it sits there unbreakable he hits whatever its fighting with the A-bomb (savage orc horde died horrible to this very tactic).

I usually magic / shoot his flame throwers and so they don't tend to do much against me.

My main problem is that bell unit (hard to hurt with spells because of the ward save / magic resist), and the A-bomb / cannons. I realize that fire is the best answer to the A-bomb but its hard to catch when it moves 3d6 and runs away / deploys away from the black orcs.

Yeah i have felt the pain of the skitterleap / doom rocket and watch for it, though recently he has just been running the guy forward and throwing the doom rocket to hit one or two units depending on how the battle line is.

[Draig]

Ok charging the Bell into combat is very risky. How are you failing to kill the Seer? Clanrats hit like wet paper towels. The Bell base is 5 models wide at 20mm, which means seven 20mm models can all direct their attacks at the Seer. Or 5 Orcs if they are in combat instead. Assume 2 ranks, thats 14 attacks per turn from Goblins, 10 from Orcs, all of which you can direct against his very squishy Seer. Savage Orcs with Spears, that becomes 30 attacks. Max he can have is a 6 up armour, 4 up ward. This is your priority, as if the Seer goes down he's in real trouble forced to test on base Ld. Skaven will crumble astonishingly fast without the Leadership bubble.

As I said I wouldn't bother with the Spider if he's bringing two cannons, it'll go down fast. I'd bring some Manglers and more artillery.

Abomb is nasty, but if you take away Impact hits and Thunderstomp it's much more bearable. As I said, Trolls are your friend here. Force him to charge a throwaway unit, say Night Goblins with Fanatics to soften it up, then shove six Trolls in its face / flank. Ruby Ring of Ruin can help your fire Damage too, negating the Regen. Alternatively put the flaming Banner on your BSB, shove it in a unit of 40 Night Goblin archers for a turn, and laugh at him as it disintegrates. You can move your BSB somewhere more useful once it's dead.

Honestly not facing any slaves is a huge bonus for you, those things are astonishingly useful at tying up your best units.

In summary go after the Seer and the BSB, and the rest will take care of itself. Good luck!

[Cloudburst]

Thanks for the suggestions, I will try out the trolls in my next game against him.

Cloudburst

[mickkk666]

Hi fellas! I'm going to play against Skaven tomorrow. Is my first time playing in this edition against them and I want to know your opinions about em. I'll do a little summary of the list. Its a 2000 points league list, so I can't change it:

Orc Warboss
SO L4 shaman

Goblin BSB on gigantic spider

2x5 wolf riders
2x40 NGs with 2 fanatics each
29 SOBuns

2 chariots
6 trolls

2 doom divers
2 mangler

He will have a typical deploy I guess: lots of slaves and clan rats, warp cannons and a abomination or even 2 abominations (auch!), grey seer and some runners.

The manglers can go ahead the abomination and hurting it as much as possible, putting also some wolf riders to charge against some runners. Chariots can work great with the warp cannons.

What about the deployment? Do I have to deploy my main blocks in the middle and flank with chariots&wolf riders&manglers?

Tell me your experiences against them in every way please. Thanks

This post has been edited by mickkk666 on Feb 10 2012, 05:17 PM

[rothgar13]

Well, I think that the first thing that has to be kept in mind is that you want to keep a little distance between your NG units, because he might go for the Engineer + Skitterleap + Brass Orb combo (especially effective against O&G with their I2), and that might pull your Fanatics out early. It's also a good idea to try and pick off any Weapon Teams with the Doom Divers - you only need a Wound to pop them, and even if you miss, you likely hit the block they're attached to. Apart from that... it should be fairly standard operating procedure.

[Squigkikka]

That is if you can afford to hit weapon teams when abominations bear down upon you.

[eastern barbarian]

If he takes warplighting cannons (and I imagine he will have at least one if not two) then I would really worry about your BSB on giant spider. Besides, I would definitely try to put flaming banner on savage orcs, which when you dealing with abomination is essential. Last thing you want is killing it and then it coming back!

I would play refused flank personally (I am a skaven player for many years)- limits places where gutter runners can deploy behind you focing them to either go in ambus or deploy on the side of your army- chariots turned that way will probably do enough to discourage him as well.

I second comments by rothgar about keeping the distance as well and targetting weapon teams- hell, if you lucky you might even cause some panic by destroying his weapon teams!
Any idea what else he might be taking? Pretty usual approach or less usual?
If he takes plague furnace target everything you have as far as doomdivers go into it as it has no save (or perhpas 6+ ward from ironcurse) and you have a chance of killing it and if it reaches you it can be really deadly.

If you can find the points try to put short bows on your wolf riders- very useful in reducing chaff units (those 5 giant rats blocking your way etc.). I would consider dropping fanatics from one NG unit and adding nets- S2 clanrats are suddenly much easier to deal with

And try to get flanking attacks on his big blocks as his strenght in number doesnt work then and once skaven army starts panicking its really hard to gather it again.

[Squigkikka]

Weapon teams don't cause panic checks.

[Kroxloq]

It might be wise to invest in a dispel scroll somehwere in there as well. One of my usual opponents is Skaven and the Plague spell has taken its toll on my army many times. +4 on dispel rolls from your shaman helps but the Scroll is a complete shutdown.

Challenge his characters to fights if you can! They're just puny rats, your characters will likely beat him in combats cuz green is best! Verminous Valor will let him go to the back without penalty, but that still means his lord isn't up front hitting rank and file while your lord chops rats quite happily, adding combat res. Something to consider

Where is your flaming banner? If you expect hellpits then that is a great way to get some flaming to deny regeneration. Sometimes rat ogres end up with regeneration as well if he takes the special char for them. My flaming banner is usually with my blorcs, but there other places to use this as well.

Definitely try to go for flanks. If you can disrupt his unit they lose thier rank bonus to leadership modifiers, making them much more susceptible to break tests.

It is fun to watch their weapon teams misfire and shoot/explode/ torch rats at inopportune times!

This post has been edited by Kroxloq on Feb 10 2012, 10:23 PM