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 2k Game Vs. Empire, Practice game before the League Games !
Lord_Viper
Posted: Aug 23 2011, 04:46 AM


Warboss in training
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Member No.: 5,335
Joined: 26-May 09



Hi fellow generals

After you helped me build my 2000 point list for my league tournament, I put it to the test against an Empire list that will be participating in the League too, even though it's not on my same group.

As always, I felt it was really important to give the list some practice before the real games, and I was not wrong. In the end, in case you don't want to read through all the report, I lost the game by a fair margin, but got a bit wiser about how to use the list...

The Empire army:
  • 32 Swordsmen
  • 49 Halberdiers
  • Steam Tank
  • 2X Great Cannon
  • Mortar
  • Mage (Lore of Shadow)
  • Mage (Lore of Beasts)
  • War Altar
  • Engineer

Deployment

user posted image

We play Meeting Engagement. Miserable rolls on my deployment means HALF my army ends up in reserve ! This has a HUGE impact for my troops, specially for the slow moving Black orcs, which will be decisive in the final result for my army. For the empire, only the Pope-mobile (war altar) and a cannon are left outside the board.

Turn 1 - Greenskins

user posted image

Movement phase sees my crippled army moving towards the Empire (I fear the cannons rightfully). The "reserves" come into play. I'm concerned about the Black Orcs as their pace means they won't be where they are needed, on time. Magic phase produces an irresistible force Foot of Gork that scatters into oblivion, and causes a wound on the LVL 4 shaman. A very ugly first turn...

Turn 1 - Empire

user posted image

The Tank gets 10 SP. Reserves come into play. War altar moves to the center, the Tank moves forward to use its canon and steam gun. Swordsmen move a bit forward and I think I should definitively charge next turn. During magic phase, Beast wizard casts +1st & +1to on the Swordsmen (I fail to dispel it!), and then Shadow wizard casts "The Enfeebling Foe" with irresistible force on my Savage Orcs !. He loses a level with the miscast AND the spell.
Shooting phase is not good for my opponent as the tank only kills 2 Savage orcs and 1 ng smile.gif

Turn 2 - Greenskins

user posted image

I charge the swordsmen in what was probably my first and biggest mistake of the game. This was my second ever game against the Empire and I was not familiar with the surprises this guys are able to pull off. Magic phase is forgettable as the empire dispels every spell I throw at them. Shooting sees both my warmachines missing or failing to wound any target.

Then comes the CC phase... and I'm dismayed as I only kill FOUR guys and the enemy champion (on a challenge) with ALL my attacks ! The "enfeebling foe" spell really payed for itself with the miscast... They kill two guys in return, but the swordsmen are steadfast 10Ld WITH a re-roll ! I see now that the situation will be REALLY tough for my troops and I think that this is a battle my Boyz will NOT be able to win on their own. Also, the lower placed chariot fails the ultra long charge into one of the cannons.

Turn 2 - Empire

user posted image

War Altar charges my Savage Orcs, and the Tank charges into my NG.

Magic phase, ends the previously cast augmented spells. I succeed in dispelling most of the enemy spells EXCEPT "Melkoth's Mystifying Miasma" on the Savage Big'uns ! This is a game-changer as now I'm convinced that I'll be facing an uphill battle.

Shooting Phase is really bad for my friend. Close combat sees "the Pope" placing a challenge on the unit of Big'uns. I take it with my BSB, thinking it will be a "soft" target, when I find out about ANOTHER surprise from the empire: Van*someone*'s Speculum ! Neither one of them cause any wounds on each other. Swordsmen vs. Big'uns is another even match and I win combat again, and again the Swordsmen stay. The Tank make my NG flee.

Things look really grim for my O&G...

Turn 3 - Greenskins

user posted image

I move my wolves to create a distraction on the Halberdiers. I move (and subsequently teleport) my mangler squig into the middle of the warmachines. The NG that broke after the attack by the tanks manages to rally back into the game. Wolf chariot 2 tries to maneuver at the flank of the tank and I forgot to declare a charge for the boar chariot. This was another mistake that would perhaps have made a difference.

Magic phase is only useful to dispel the curse on my Savage Boyz and to teleport (the so far useless) mangler squig. Shooting sees my DD killing the Shadow Mage, yay ! Combat continues and still no major casualties. The speculum is a great item: my BSB is locked into a combat that doesn't get us anywhere: we FAIL and FAIL again to hit each other !

Turn 3 - Empire

user posted image

Halberdiers take the bait and fail to charge the Wolf Riders. Tank positions to face my slowly arriving Black Orcs. During shooting phase, both cannons grapeshot my mangler into oblivion, and mortar fails again. Tank's cannon misfires causing 3 wounds into itself. The remaining mage hides in the Halberdier unit.

Close combat is really the same thing from last turn. Stubborn LD10 with rerolls is REALLY close to saying "unbreakable". The challenge is going nowhere as both characters are making all their saves and fail to cause a SINGLE wound.

Turn 4 - Greenskins

user posted image

Wolf chariot finally manages to charge the cannon ! My Boar chariot charges into the flank of the Swordsmen, hoping to finally break them. NG reposition to face the tank (hoping to stall it) and the other Wolf Chariot fails to charge the pope-mobile.

Nothing happens during magic phase: all my spells are dispelled. Shooting phase is completely irrelevant. Close combat, sees the survival of the general, which is ALL by itself, holding the regiment of Big'uns. Challenge is still without wounds, and I know its game over next turn, when the halberdiers charge into my flank. At least, the Wolf Chariot kills the cannon and overruns into the other cannon.

Turn 4 - Empire

user posted image

Steam tank charges the NGs again. Halberdiers reform a bit, but don't move. Irrelevant magic phase. Mortar shoots the black orcs (kills 2). Close combat continues, I fail to break the lonely general, challenge is now one wound on each participant. I know this moment that I'll be losing the main combat, it's inevitable with the Halberdiers so close to my flank. NG are broken and run away (as expected...). Chariot kills the other cannon and overruns a bit, but not into the mortar.

Turn 5 - Greenskins

user posted image

Having nothing (more) to lose, Black Orcs charge the Tank. The Wolf chariot charges the Popemobile, Wolf riders charge the block of halberdiers (hoping only to stall them by miracle). Another irrelevant magic phase, altough the Diver kills off the Engineer Another turn of fruitless close combat as the BOs don't cause a scratch on the tank and the general HOLDS as expected.

Turn 5 - Empire

user posted image

Finally, the halberdiers charge into my flank. Both my units break from combat but only the main unit is caught. It should be noted that my chariot was not in combat anymore thus didn't get to participate on the slaughter. General and Pope-mobile pursue the remaining chariot. Mortar tries to kill the chariot but fails. Black orcs get killed by the tank, that thing is truly a beast...

FINAL Turn - Greenskins

user posted image

Wolf Chariot charges and kills mortar. Boar chariot does an impressive TWO impact hits on the general and obviously fails to kill the bastard. Gobbos and Wolf chariot finally rally back into the battle. Too late...

FINAL Turn - Empire

user posted image

Pope-mobile charges the chariot but fails to kill it. Tank keeps killing my black orcs without too much hassle...

************

Its a victory by far margin to the empire. I didn't knew enough of the enemy army to play mine effectively. Still, it was a GREAT practice to have before my first game of the league.

What would I try to change for my next game ?
  • For starters, DON'T charge the swordsmen unless I can kill the general by round TWO. That can happen via challenge or allocating attacks, which I'll try to do next time.
  • Another thing would be trying to kill the Pope-mobile via ranged attacks next time. The "speculum" is really good against a killy-type of character like my general so I have to take him out from a distance.
  • Use more aggressively the mangler. I felt that the unit was wasted in this particular game. Maybe find a more suitable target for it ?
  • Finally, I think I should ignore the tank. I know it's really NOT easy, but at least, killing it last would be "easier" if the whole army is focused into it. I don't really know how to deal with the T10/AS 1+ of the thing...


It was a great game against a very good opponent that is returning into the game. He's a very nice guy and I learned a lot from the game.

Thanks for reading all this ! I really appreciate it smile.gif yarr.gif
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BorkBork
Posted: Aug 23 2011, 06:30 AM


also known as Bonapork
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meeting engagements can ruin anyones plans.

nice report.

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Morten C
Posted: Aug 23 2011, 02:04 PM


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QUOTE (BorkBork @ Aug 23 2011, 06:30 AM)
meeting engagements can ruin anyones plans.

nice report.

+1

and +1 wink.gif

I will say that i think you look like you were pretty unlucky with a lot of things in your battle!

unlucky deployment - you have a lot of your support units comig in late... that coupled with not getting any support spells on your savage orcs is fatal...

unlucky shooting - how the rocklobber could miss those huge units is beyond me laugh.gif

unlucky terrain - Your troops arrive, not only on peace meal, but are also with terrain against them... you have trouble advancing as a battleline, and without those support troops, your flanks are open to anything. if you had been unlucky, a flank charge from a pope mobile, and you would have lost your frenzy...


That said, I think you suffer from not knowing your enemy as well. The empire has tons of dirty tricks like the speculum, and they can ruin your day...

You also loose the game cauz you don't exploit the fact that you have the momentum when you charge. Instead of trying to cast spells yourself, you would have really benefited from dispelling the enemy hex spell when charging into combat with the swordsmen... they would still have +1 S and T, but it would have made them far more manageable. If you have room for it, you might want level 2 goblin shaman instead of only level 1? I think your big combat blogs would really benefit from some of their spells, instead of only damage spells that the orcs have.


Hope you could use some of that smile.gif
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Anton
Posted: Aug 23 2011, 04:24 PM


Lucky Git
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Very good report, it must have taken ages to make.

Savage Big 'Uns are pretty good at grinding down humans until they break, but of course Enfeebling Foe and Wyssan's Wildform can really ruin their day.

When the Pope challenges, answer with a Boss or a Shaman, or better yet don't answer at all! Unless the Pope has Meteoric Iron you can kill him with Big 'Uns. If he does, destroy the Popemobile. He isn't unbreakable without it.
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Lord_Viper
Posted: Aug 24 2011, 03:26 AM


Warboss in training
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Joined: 26-May 09



Thank you very much for the feedback, as I told you before, I really appreciate that you take the time to read it all.

QUOTE (BorkBork @ Aug 23 2011, 06:30 AM)
meeting engagements can ruin anyones plans.

You bet ! This was my first time on the scenario too, so I wasn't familiar with the reserves thingie. I suppose that if you get a bit better luck on the deployment, it can be helpful for a bash-the-heads army like mine, being closer to the enemy.

QUOTE (Morten C @ Aug 23 2011, 02:04 PM)
I will say that i think you look like you were pretty unlucky with a lot of things in your battle!

You could say that, and you'll be 100% right smile.gif

I think the worst was the unlucky deployment. Black orcs moving SO slow, and having to come from the far end of the board was really annoying. And NOT having EITHER war machine available from turn 1 was awful.

Regarding the unlucky shooting: well, the scatter dice was having a fight with the lobba that day. I kept scattering 6 - 10 inches into oblivion...

QUOTE (Morten C @ Aug 23 2011, 02:04 PM)
That said, I think you suffer from not knowing your enemy as well. The empire has tons of dirty tricks like the speculum, and they can ruin your day...

Totally agree with you here too ! This was my SECOND game against The Empire. Ever ! Two new players get into our community, and both play Empire. This guys have really changed our meta-game ! It's going to be a very fun League tournament.

QUOTE (Anton @ Aug 23 2011, 04:24 PM)
When the Pope challenges, answer with a Boss or a Shaman, or better yet don't answer at all! Unless the Pope has Meteoric Iron you can kill him with Big 'Uns. If he does, destroy the Popemobile. He isn't unbreakable without it.

This is a GREAT piece of advice ! Thanks Anton.

I'll be trying this against my friend should the opportunity arise for a rematch ! I'm sure he'll not see this coming laugh.gif ninja.gif

Thanks again for your comments. I should probably let you know that I WON my first league match against the other Empire player ! The lessons learned in this defeat, surely made a difference. I hope to have the next report ready in the upcoming week.


WAAAGH!
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Squigkikka
Posted: Aug 24 2011, 01:38 PM


Waaagh!
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Hey, thanks for the battle report and the easy to understand pictures!

I've got to say though that the game really wasn't due to bad luck, but rather bad choices on your part since you've not met Empire before smile.gif The Speculum is very common, for example!

Even though you did have some bad luck with the 1's, you are never forced to move forward. Sure, more turns getting hit by warmachines, but better to have that than send in half your army against all of his, y'know?

Charging his swordmen when they were buffed and you hexed was a mistake. Ought to have waited it out, to maybe dispel more in the next phase.

You left a lot of flanks open with unsupported charges, that came in quite a lot and that's why I think you lost smile.gif
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Groznit Goregut
Posted: Sep 2 2011, 03:17 PM


Waaagh!
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Group: Veterans
Posts: 8,228
Member No.: 2,381
Joined: 10-August 05



It is games like this where Hand of Gork is 10 times better than Foot of Gork.

The first round, if you had gotten the spell off, you would have moved the BO up to a better position.

Second round, you could have moved the SOB into a better position and NOT attacked that round. Get out of the way of the Steam Tank and wait for that hex to wear off.

In games vs. Empire, if you can get 'eadbutt to snip his casters, it is WELL worth it.
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Cornwall
Posted: Oct 5 2011, 01:31 PM


Goblin
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Group: Members
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I think from reading your battle report that you opponent is playing the steam tank wrong.
At the start of the turn you nominate between 0 and 5 steam points.. these are your useable points for the turn. Then you roll a D6 and add that number to it. If it takes you over the current wounds total for the steam tank then it suffers .. lose wound etc. If your roll takes you equal or under your current wounds then you get to use your nominated amount of steam points (i.e between 0 if you're just using it as a roadblock, or 5 if you're planning on doing a lot with it) through the turn. Each steam point allows you to either move 3", pivot up to 90 degrees, grind for D3 hits etc etc.

Therefore the maximim a tank could move would be 15" and only in a straight line.. the exception to this would be the light spell Birona's Timewarp which would actually double it's movement (but not it's steam points)

I don't like to see guys getting stepped on because their opponent has not read the rule book properly Censored.gif

Hope that helps.
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Lord_Viper
Posted: Nov 1 2011, 02:16 PM


Warboss in training
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Joined: 26-May 09



Sorry for taking so long on replying... it almost feels like threadomancy but these last two months have been crazy (switching jobs, playing starcraft2, etc.)

I took all your advice, even though I could not post a reply. I'm posting a "quick overview" of my other league matches in another thread today, so you'll know how it has been going.

@Cornwall: I took your advice and re-read the ruling of the tank. Turns out the empire players were playing that thing WRONG ! Even so, I managed to throw EVERYTHING at the tank on my true league game and got out ahead of the enemy general (of course, I pinned it down with the SO while the rest of the army took out everything else).

The mistake was not interpreted as plain-out cheating, but as a honest (newbie) mistake. We haven't decided if some of the matches should be replayed, but as it stands now, maybe we won't have time to do it.

Thanks for all your usual help. Please check out my new thread on the reports area and on the Tactics one. My final oponent in the first round of the league will be a VERY seasoned WoC player so your help will be appreciated.

Best regards to you all !
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Cornwall
Posted: Nov 18 2011, 04:26 PM


Goblin
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Happy to help out! biggrin.gif
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Throwdown55
Posted: Dec 9 2011, 09:06 PM


Goblin
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so would an OnG player's best bet to crack a steamtank be a Rock lobba? Or is there other successful ways of gettin rid of one. Those things are Strong! ohmy.gif
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