Ideas For 8th Ed O&gs.

that would be nice...

As for the outnumber bonus- thatīs way too strong.It would effectively make all our infantry blocks stubborn.

Maybe we could ge a +1 Ld bonus if we outnumber an enemy in combat (for the break test), but that might be too much as well...

Which is becoming more and more common throughout the game (not to mention ItP) and varying armies anyway, I don't think its too strong at all. The ItP troops which O&G have are subject to animosity and/or move randomly... Whoop ti *expletive* do...
Just out of curiosity, Tokamak and Stashman who are your regular opponents? While I applaud your efforts to maintain the idea of a balanced O&G army, it seems as if you guys are still relating to O&G in its 6th edition form rather then the current 7th.

GW doesn't feel the same way at all judging from the recent books.
In 6th edition 2 armies immediately spring to mind with regard to fire based attacks, namely Dwarfs and Bretonnia.
Now every single army book that's been released has relatively cheap access to them through physical means or default spells.

And your solution would be?
I suppose we can assume that O&G trolls like chaos trolls have magical vomit but that's still an open-ended rules query.

I have said it before, the essence of the O&G book is not bad (5th was almost perfect) but as the game/ armies move forward to 8th, the O&G book could use a few extra tweaks aside from the glaring obvious over-costing of some troop types.
On the whole I do quite well with O&G and 2 members of my gaming group are hard-core tourney goers with 1 of them having fairly constant marked success in indy tourneys and the GT in 2007.
Let me put it another way, if I take out my old VC I'll slaughter almost anyone I face and compared to the efforts you need to put in with O&G against the same armies it simply doesn't even out no matter how you look at it.

This post has been edited by Tar Irontooth on Nov 24 2009, 02:30 PM

High Elves, Lizardmen and Beastmen.

And I don't agree with making O&G stronger to keep up with the power creep. It's the powerhouse armies that need to be nerfed.

All very well but I recall some OK players saying the same last edition (let alone this one). I think 6th WFB was so much better then 7th on quite a few points, but we're playing 7th now not 6th and unless all the players in your club/ gaming group play 6th the change will happen regardless.

It simply doesn't happen, so I'd much rather do something about the issue.
You think VC, DE, DoC even to some extent HE and LM going to get "nerfed" any time soon or do you think realistically that'll only happen 3-4 years down the line?

I have only played 1 game against the new skaven (I got annihilated) and I'm completely sure a few more games will help pan out the result as I get used to the quirks and elements of the army but I think GW has yet to clue on to this "nerf" idea and if they did they'd break a trend they've maintained consistently for over a decade, i.e. the power creep.

As long as power creep is the best marketing tool they have dont expect it to get better.

And your solution would be?
I suppose we can assume that O&G trolls like chaos trolls have magical vomit but that's still an open-ended rules query.

Solution? Change army!


I wan't an army based upon Orcs and Goblins fluff, not an army that shall compete with regenerate armies, power armies or be as any army with same stuff, diffrent name.

For me O&G shall be an Horde army with loads of greenskinns draging themself to war under the leadership of a mighty warlord. More greenskinns, not better greenskinns.

Big Uns - Cheaper
Black Orcs - Immune to psychology
Goblins - Cheaper

Try to get Boar Boyz to be Core (not savage boar boyz) without being to much
Boar Boyz - cheaper

That's a fairly short-sighted and naive answer surely you do see that?

Hmm, ah never mind.

Yes I think there's a good chance of that happening. Daemons of Chaos will be renewed shortly after Beastmen.

And really, power creep is only a short therm marketing tool. It can't be sustained.

This post has been edited by Tokamak on Nov 24 2009, 06:08 PM

I have serious doubts with regards to whether there will be any sort of renewal at all, but who knows perhaps GW will buck their own trend.

It can and is very well sustained and GW has been doing it since 3rd edition to good effect, that's about 10 years now.

Its all superfluous anyway, lets leave it at that.

As long as O&G will be a starter army, GW wont overpower it. Because they sell it in huge numbers anyway. Besides, they had oversize the races which sale ratio is poor.

Back to topic. What about placing only one type of goblins - common goblins, and have the opportunity to upgrade to sub-types as Chaos Marks. For example;
a ) Forest Goblins: all attacks are poisoned, skirmisher, short bow
b ) Night Goblins: netters, fanatics, spear
c ) Cave Goblins: tunneller, explosives (as dwarf miners)

This post has been edited by Badrug on Nov 25 2009, 11:54 AM

I would love to see the return of 6th edition snotlings. It would make my mass of snotling models playable again. The current ones are a joke. Stubborn Leadership 4! bah! Back in 6th ed my snotlings could take a Bretonnian charge and hang around long enough for some boys to join in the fray.

I agree with all the talk about black orcs, stubborn would be great but even if they could use a different weapon in each round of combat that would be an improvement

Cheaper goblins and boar boys would be greatly appreciated.

I think the thing we all have to remember is that Orcs and Goblins is the FUN army in Warhammer. You don't play OnG to Power Game, you play them to have a great, enjoyable battle which is full surprises.

I know it can be hard and frustrating to play against some of the newer armies (and even some of the older ones) but if you look at the fluff, OnG nearly always end up losing. When an army in Warhammer needs a story with a great victory in it, OnG are normally the ones getting the thumping (after doing a bit of thumping themelves )

Consider where the majority of OnG live. We've been pushed back into the barren, desert which is the Badlands. If there was anything of value in the Badlands, the Empire or Bretonnia would of pushed us further into the mountains so that they could colonise the Badlands for themselves. Our main victories have been in the mountains and under the ground. How many non-Dwarf castles do OnG currently occupy?.............I can't think of any off the top of my head.

The reason we are still a force in the Warhammer World (fluff wise) is because of our numbers and adaptability. OnG can live anywhere, do anything and eat what ever they like (well almost). It wouldn't surprise me to see some night goblins flying around caves in a squig dropping fueled Gyrocopter-like-contraption which they mimicked or commandeered of some Dwarfs, or seeing a bunch of Orcs riding around on Tomb King chariots pulled by boars. We use whatever is available! The only rules and regulations we have are: biggest is best and green is best.

My point is, we don't need over powered units, or every type of unit. What we need is a characterful, unique, balanced army that represents the core values of OnG.

If the new army book manages to do this, then, when you do beat the armies that you think are over powered, the victories will be all the sweeter.

P.s Hopefully Games Workshop can find the magic armor that they seemed to miss placed in the change from 6th ed to 7th ed

If I return to need of flaming attacks, what do you say about an item like Book of Secrets? A shaman may have found a book or item that enables him to cast of other spells. This may help him to use other lores or to cast additinal spell from other lores.

As a result, you may choose lore of fire!

When snotlings where unbreakable was too much of none-realistic (in terms of unrealistic world of fantasy models).

Immune to psychology is nice when taking heat from missles and no need to roll for animosity, but snotlings can changed

Snotling Horde 25 pts
4 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 4

Wargear
Sticks, knives and rocks.

Rocks (missile weapon): Range 8", Strength 2, Thrown Weapons

Special Rules
Immune to psychology, Stubborn, Skirmish

there are some great suggestions on this thread. i would love to see the return of young wyverns as an option for a mount for a goblin bigboss/warboss. In the background somewhere it is usually goblins (bullied by orcs) who steal wyvern eggs and probably look after/train them until the wyvern grows big enough to eat the goblin.

the young wyvern would have one less on most of the wyverns statistical profile.
a choice like this would have to be very restricted or it would be too common place but would be a lot of fun to convert and use. i might try to convert one anyway out of a cold one...