Charging Over A Fanatic

Everyone agrees that you cannot declare a charge against a Goblin Fanatic.

The Army book states that a Goblin Fanatic is a unit.

So page 18 of the little rule book states:

CHARGING MORE THAN ONE UNIT

A unit can normally only declare a charge at a single enemy unit. However, if there is no way at all of completing the charge against an enemy unit without touching another (sometimes known as 'clipping') then the charging unit must also declare a charge against the other unit(s).

As a fanatic cannot have a charge declared against it the charge against the unit behind the Fanatic is invalid.

No, no and no. That is not so. It is not a multiple charge.

As pointed out, and so far ignored, the special rules explicitly tell us you CAN'T charge the fanatic, BUT YOU CAN move into contact with the fanatic. How can you do that? Two ways. Move into contact by charging a unit behind them, or come into contact in the movement phase.
Yes, I know, you can't normally charge through other units. This particular one has a rule saying I CAN come into contact with it, and the rules then explain the mayhem that ensues (unless it's me and I roll a total of 3 hits on 2D6...).

It is against the normal rules which is why it has an exception. Why did you join up just to argue this point?

RoV

If you insist in arguing with rules from the main rulebook, at least refer to rules that gives you some credibility.

This is not the same as a charge against multiple units.

Why do you even bother using army book rules if you intend to ignore the rules in them?

point is reasonably simple*

the fanatic rule says "you may contact" the fanatic, which will override a rule that says you cannot.

point is, neither charging nor fleeing have a rule saying you "may not" contact another unit - indeed both already say you can, and provide rules for how to do this. as such they do not interact with "you may contact" the fanatic, as both already say you can, as long as you meet the conditions under these rules.

nothing in the charge rules say you can't contact him, they just say that while charging you must declare a charge in order to do so, the fanatic rule does not remove the condition, it just also indicates you may make contact - which you already could as long as you declare the charge



* though the rules on p2 & p3 provide an explicit way out of this, and indeed any other situation.

I have no issue with people playing the game any way they desire, justifying it or not as they see fit, as long as the game is fun they can move fanatics 4D6" or further, provide a reroll for the direction etc - rule of funny in effect etc.

Still can't see how it is a problem especially when you look under the Release the fanatics! Rules. Chargers must and all that but the sentence starts with moves - but charges has to bla bla bla etc.

You may play it differently, and that is fine by me, because I have never visited a gaming table anywhere where it wasn't played just as it is here by thousands of greenskin players.

"Release the fanatics!" is an easy one.

point with a charge - there is only one point the restrictions come into play - when you declare a charge you must see if it is legal, there is nothing requiring you to check again once you make the first check.

hence if you declare a legal charge then a fanatic pops out you charge is already legal and the "release the fanatics!" rule tells you want you "must" (not "may") do in this case.


Can play it either way here, only requirement is to know pre game which way people want to run it - easy to make an "assumption" as to which way peoples default view will be as well unless stated otherwise.


the other thread the OP asked if a charge was possible, guess the correct answer could be:

"no, but virtually everyone plays it as if the answer is yes"

Except it starts with moves... The charging part is just an explanation.

But if you play it diffently in your meta so be it, won't change anything as far as I am concerned.

Meh, my last post on this, as I think you decided what the result would be before coming here to ask the question.

You normally cannot charge a unit if there is a unit in the way that you cannot charge. UNLESS that unit has a clear exception in it's rules saying you can contact it.

Also, perhaps there is reason you leave this bit out; "The fanatic model is then removed and the unit may carry on with it's move." A charge is a move.

Play the way you wish, good luck convincing people that you can have your fanatic roadblock. I have NEVER seen it played that way, here in Australia or in the UK, and I regularly play tournaments.



RoV

For the record I've never played fanatics as road blocks, but then I've never had anyone try and charge over them either.

well aware how this is "normally" played, also aware how the rules actually read.

also aware GW are not known for well written rules that make sense, this cropped up from a question someone else asked, figured I'd see what people thought. a few have argued the way I do on WHF, most have argued otherwise.

Clear the way people would "expect" this to be played, and to be honest if the "normal way" of playing any given unit is different to the rules, as long as people are aware of this it doesn't matter - sort of like the rules on the game being played using "citadel" models v the way most people actually play that.


I knew how I read the rules before coming here to ask, I know them in a lot more detail now though - not that it matters as thats not how the rules are played which is more important than how they are written yes?

for giggles I lined my nine fanatics up and asked them.

one fell over, and took another out with him.
three said they were looking forwards to being charged over, so they could wrap that ball round some necks
three quivered then ran off screaming
the "decider" sat there and said nothing, for that one is a plastic model and not a real goblin after all


tournament play is generally not the best way to see how a rule is played, as they are not exactly known for playing the rules exactly as written without a Comp/FAQ pack to clear up a range of issues, and generally improve the game.

point being this is an easy one to clear up in favour of the way it is generally played - treat the little sod as terrain that has the "force of destruction" effects when you contact or otherwise move over them. sort of like an anti shipping mine without a tether at the whim of the currents and lord Neptune.


if nothing else, "Rule of Funny" allows charging over them, the chance for that elite unit to take a few hits, panic and flee is too good to miss - specially as the O&G player can force them to flee again very shortly afterwards in their own turn.

ho hum. splat splat splat.

Actually, tommoxyz joined a couple years ago (Joined: 4-April 10), but has not posted until now.

So, as these are your first posts, tommoxyz: Welcome to da warpath.

You can go in circles with this. I think there is too much reading into the rules, and a mixed application of the general and specific in arguments. I'm stopping my circle at charge through my fanatics and manglers if you want. That is probably the intent and makes sense to me. After all, fanatics and manglers weren't designed to be used as shields to prevent a unit from being charged. That's not the greenskin way.