Warhammer Ahoy!, More ideas to steal

Sorry for the delay in reply as work has got the best of me. I guess its a matter of scale and, for all intents and purposes, larger crews are possible and I am not at all against the idea so long as the proportions are the same. I do not know about the large number of cannons but larger crews are probably not bad. As far as Ahoy goes, I'd have to modify the rules to accomodate the larger crews (150+ is still a bit much for me but perhaps 40 or so compared to the 25 we have now) I think it gets to the idea that I want to make sure that the management of crew and the tactical deployment/assignment of crew to tasks that have a vital impact on the game are maintained. More later...

Real life can be a real... No problem, mate!

Question--I've got a Dark Elf joining the campaign I'm running. Now what do I do? Dark Elves with cannon? Repeater Bolt Throwers that can only shoot at the ship? No elves have ever showed up for a ship fight before...

Warhamemr Ahoy web site (aka Spiritofthegame.com?) has rules regarding some Dark Elf stuff but so to did the GW web site regarding living ships. Can't tell you if it is still there but it was under the gaming section of the UK or the US site. As far as models go, Man-O-War and other Dark Elf fluff speak of DoomDrakes (sea monsters tamed by the beastmasters) with fighting platforms attached to their backs. It would make a neat conversion. I had an idea for a model involving a dragon head from a McFarlain (sp?) dragon and some balsawood all tied together on a base armed with wither a breath weapon, more powerful bolt throwers that function something like cannons in their destructive potential but that can also fire in a repeater mode for clearing the enemy deck. Come up with some rules and let us know what you have. I'd be glad to give it some thought and post something later on...

I was thinking about the DE ships here--

http://gidian-gelaende.de/Material_HP/Wolf...lbum/index.html

It would be great to have a living ship, but since its Mordheim I'm not real excited over the Repeater Bolt Thrower and its shots at the crew. Get a BS 4 elf shooting 6 bolts per turn st 4 versus a Mordheim warband... sounds like ouch! I suppose I could volunteer my band for the target guinea pigs...

Hmmm...

I'll look at the SpiritoftheGame site and the Australian GW site...

Thanks!

Edit--so now I looked at the DE rules on the site and it mentions "hit location"...where are the rules for that? Hit locations sound a lot better for a Mordheim game. (Actually I can use the Mordheim boats rules for hit location.) I suppose I could start e-mailing those Spirit of the Game guys...

This post has been edited by Arrgberg on Apr 13 2009, 12:20 AM

Hold the phone.... Those ships are awesome!!! As far as Dark Elves go, I'd have to say those are right on the money as to where you may want to go. I also like the scratch-built undead ships.... Let's get in touch with that guy and learn his technique on building......

I have a small force of dark elves for naval combat. They have a repeater bolt thrower of course, but also use harpies to attack enemy ships. They may also use slaves to man cannons.

This post has been edited by Sharkbelly on Apr 13 2009, 06:47 PM

From the Warhammer Ahoy! site:
"Bolt Throwers
Smaller, lighter versions of these war machines are found aboard ships in the Warhammer world. The weapon’s profile for Ahoy! is shown below. The rules for these weapons can be found on page 124 of the rulebook. Arc of fire is 45º.

Range Strength Save Wounds/Hit
36" 5 - D3

Shooting at Enemy Ships
Roll to hit (medium and large enemy ships are large targets!, +1 to hit) and determine location as usual, if the result is crew then only one crewman is hit. Bolt Thrower shots are not as effective for starting fires as gunpowder artillery, but for example lanterns could be knocked over or fuses dropped, etc. Therefore the shot will start a fire on a D6 roll of 6+.


Shooting Ashore
The weapon is used as a large crossbow. However, it is difficult to aim precisely at scattered individuals moving quickly on the shore so a 6+ is required to hit, regardless of range or cover modifiers.


Repeater Bolt Thrower
Single Shot
Strength 6 (no save) as these are exquisitely made and powerful weapons.
Multiple Shots
Strength 4 (-1 save) roll a hit location for each shot separately. These smaller bolts do not start fires aboard ships. As before, when shooting at models ashore a 6+ is required hit for each shot."

Seriously what's this "roll a hit location" thing? Its not in my rules.

Sharkbelly--actually in Mordheim DE are prohibited from cannon so I shouldn't have asked or I should house rule it so they can. I think if I figure out this hit location thing it will solve my problem since the bolts will likely strike the ship (and wound on 6s) most of the time.

Skavenwarlord--isn't Wolfgang great? I've never thought to e-mail him. I just look at his posts. He posts WIP photos for his terrain projects so I imagine he builds his ships the old fashioned way with polystyrene hulls sheathed with balsa or cardboard.

The problem that I see with S 6 bolt throwers is that they will probably never wound large ships. What was the toughness on a large ship from Ahoy? Wasn't it T9? You will never sink an enemy ship with bolt thowers. It pretty much means that every ship will have to use cannons. Maybe if the rules were changed to make the ships not as tough....

I have even more problem with St 5 bolt throwers! What are they thinking! (although both will wound T9 on a 6...)

Your bias is showing. Repeater bolt throwers would play hell with a crew especially at your crew sizes. Who cares if your ship is not damaged if all the sailors are casualties? Even regular bolt throwers are dangerous in the General's Compendium where they are more like cannon with no guess (hit models in a straight line rather than ranks).

We just reduced the strength of the cannon!

Allowing a strength upgrade to every bolt thrower would be an option too. St 7 max like Dwarfs.

The idea of hitting crew would be very useful. Also, flaming bolts could be an option, too. If you are trying to put out the fire, you are too busy to shoot back! You would have to set it up so that even if it didn't damage, it has a chance of setting a fire.

I think it might be good to tweak the T of each ship down a bit and maybe even raise the S of bolt throwers. Lowering cannons, too. I'm sure we can find a good mix.

One thing that I have been curious about is how to do fortifications? I did just get back from Disney and rode Pirates of the Caribbean enough times to even know how to spell it right (not Carribean). It's just too cool and classic to attack a fortified town. So.....how do you fight against enemy gun placements? Do you have to destroy the wall to destroy the cannon? Can you fire at the guns instead of the walls?

I've only done one amphibious assault on a castle. It was fun. The fort was defended by a catapult in a tower. I think the navy opted to destroy the tower rather than target the gun just because damage to the tower could prevent the catapult from shooting and destroying the tower would destroy the machine in it.

The catapult targeted the landing craft in an attempt to drown as many attackers as possible before they could reach the beach.

We played it in 6th edition with the regular siege rules and rules for ships from the Compendium.

Magic Ideas...

I was thinking on a magic list that would have an impact of the game but not severely impact the game as to override the naval warfare aspect. Here is a list with some casting values and effects:

Call the Wind - 7+ - Can be summoned anywhere within 36 inches of the caster, to include on the caster's ship itself, and can be used to turn the ship 90 degrees from its present heading. It can also be ised to speed a ship an additional 2d6 inches in its current heading.

Lightning Call - 9+ - Can be used to attack crew, a ships rigging or the hull. If cast, roll a d3 for the number of forks coming off the lightening bolt. On a 1, the bolt strikes d3 crew at Str. 5, on a 2, the bolt strikes the rigging at Str. 8, for 1 structural point and a possibility of fire, and on a 3, the bolt strikes the hull at Str. 8 for d3 Structural points and the possbility of fire.

Call the Rain - 5+ - Called to spress fire on the ship, effectively putting such fire out on a 3+. It will also cause gun powder weaponry to only be fired on a 4+ the turn it was cast.

Rot Wood - 8+ - Causes d3 Structural points of damage to the hull with a chance of a critical as per the Ahoy modified rules.

Tidal wave - 7+ - Use the template that is 1 foot wide to represent a tidal wave that heads away from the wizards ship and travels 5d6 inches towards a target. Any ship hit by the wave will take a Str. 7 hit to its hull and any crew on deck will have to pass a Strength test or be swept overboard. Fires on the deck will be extinguished automatically!!

Watery Vortex - 6+ - A watery vortex will appear within 36 inches of the wizard and last until dispelled. If a ship hits the vortex, the spinning motion will allow the casting player to turn a ship to face in any direction and head out d6 inches from the edge of the template in a random direction. This can effect the caster's own ship as well.

Swarm of Gulls - 4+ - Swarm of pissed off gulls mistakes ashes for food and swarm the deck of the target up to 36 inches away causing 2d6 Str 1 hits. (Not very powerful but their gulls so....)

Sharks Call - 5+ - A shool of sharks swarms to a location to attack a target in the water. Any models in the water will suffer a Str 5 hit. The school disperses afterwards.

Send Illusion - 10+ - The caster can make the enemy hsip believe they see something that is not there. If there is an enemy ship within their field of fire, they must shoot at it with their weapons as if it were an enemy ship. If there is no enemy in range, then the enemy ship will make a 45 degree turn in the direction of the caster's choosing and move 2d6 in that direction.

Call Fog - 7+ - The target is shrouded in a thick fog that obscures all sight. No missile weapons of any sort may fire from the affected ship. No crew in the water may be picked up the turn the spell is cast.

Fiery Blast – If successful, starts d2 fires on deck of target ship.

These spells will need to be worked over and tested as to the casting values but the idea is there. Let me know what you think.

Hey Skavenwarlord.
Cool ideas! Is this a separate magic lore--Sea Witch, or something? Or tacked on to a normal spell caster?


Call the Wind - 7+ - Can be summoned anywhere within 36 inches of the caster, to include on the caster's ship itself, and can be used to turn the ship 90 degrees from its present heading. It can also be ised to speed a ship an additional 2d6 inches in its current heading.
--So do you turn and move or turn and move if you want to? Is it 90 degrees only or up to 90 degrees?

Lightning Call - 9+ - Can be used to attack crew, a ships rigging or the hull. If cast, roll a d3 for the number of forks coming off the lightening bolt. --[Roll another D3.]--On a 1, the bolt strikes d3 crew at Str. 5, on a 2, the bolt strikes the rigging at Str. 8, for 1 structural point and a possibility of fire, and on a 3, the bolt strikes the hull at Str. 8 for d3 Structural points and the possbility of fire.


Call the Rain - 5+ - Called to suppress fire on the ship, effectively putting such fire out on a 3+. It will also cause gun powder weaponry to only be fired on a 4+ the turn it was cast.
--What is the area of effect? The playing table or a radius?

Sharks Call - 5+ - A shool of sharks swarms to a location to attack a target in the water. Any models in the water will suffer a Str 5 hit. The school disperses afterwards.
--What does swims to a location mean? Without the first sentence the spell makes more sense. If the casting value was raised, it would be a nice spell without the first sentence.

Send Illusion - 10+ - The caster can make the enemy ship believe they see something that is not there. If there is an enemy ship within their field of fire, they must shoot at it with their weapons as if it were an enemy ship. If there is no enemy in range, then the enemy ship will make a 45 degree turn in the direction of the caster's choosing and move 2d6 in that direction.
--if there is an enemy ship within their field of fire, they must shoot at it with their weapons as if it were an enemy ship. What does this sentence mean?


Fiery Blast – If successful, starts d2 fires on deck of target ship.
--Casting value and why not d3?

Good work overall!


This post has been edited by Arrgberg on Apr 22 2009, 01:04 AM

Getting some spells down is a great idea! I think it's still best to break things down to a Lore and have only 6 of each. From looking at those spells, there would definately be a Lore of Wind and maybe some sort of Lore of Sea.

Lore of Wind - This should have spells that affect movement for sailed ships. The base spell should be one that gives you the wind behind you, no matter what facing you have. It wouldn't affect any other ship. There can be spells that might change the wind for the duration of the battle, too! That would be cool. Spells that would affect other ships and the wind (or would that be an alternative for the basic spell?).

There are some lightning spells, and I don't know if they should be added into the Lore of Wind and call it a storm attack?

Maybe we could also modify Lore of Fire to have some deadly spells for ship to ship combat. I would think that they would have some spell for putting out fires, too.

Lore of Sea - This can be a bunch of spells that affect movement, but also the ones that summon sharks, seagulls, etc.

Any other ideas?

I think if we can start with what type of Lores there are and then fill in each with appropriate types of spells, that it would be good.

I've mentioned that my Mordheim campaign has been playing a pirate theme campaign using the Ahoy! rules (with some modification). Lately our battles have been decided not by cannon or boarding but by Elven arrows. Just the arrows. No bolt throwers, a little sorcery...

And I'm thinking if I added bolt throwers it would be over sooner not later.

This is for a couple of reasons. High Elven Ballistic Skill means that the elves hit more and thus inflict more wounds. Stack this on top of high initiative means that fewer elves fall overboard or drown when they do fall. And since they are using bows, if they do fall overboard their weapons are not useless. (One of our modifications is that a model that falls overboard is considered soaked but retains his equipment.)

I had thought that an area template would minimize bolt thrower shooting versus crew, but any hits to crew would be devastating given our current experience.