So Long, And Thanks For All The Fish, im signing out

It is with anger and hopelessness I have watched GW destroy warhammer the last years.
The new rules, new models and new prices have made me make the decicion to lay down my
axe and shield and make the last walk into the blasted wastes. Me and my buddies are picking up warmashine instead.

Thanks for all the fun through the last 15 years and all the tactical support from this site!

Sad to see a Warpather go, but I hope you enjoy the Warmachine life. I personally absolutely love Warhammer nowadays, but it's not for everyone I suppose.

Theo

bye

That's too bad to hear. I know a lot of people have been frustrated with 8th Ed, but it is the best version in my opinion. Little solace, I know.

I hope you have fun with War Machines. If you want to come back, we will be here!

warmasjine has a few very good models. but in the end i prefer warhammer.

Too bad that not everybody prefers the same game, but i guess if it wasnt for the stiff competition, gw would probably be stuck in the 80ies still

peace!

you will never quit !!
like the rest of us it just a matter of time your be back

Very understandable considering GW has pulled a lot of shenanigans lately with both prices and certain other things that shall not be said.

In any case good luck and have fun with warmachine, if you ever get the urge to mash up some 'umies with a good 'ol fashioned choppa go and try out mordheim; the rules are free and it's a load of fun for you and your friends to play without using up any money.

Sucks to hear you don't like the rules anymore. I think 8th is the best edition of Warhammer that has been made since I started playing in the early 90s. But that is just my opinion.

Good luck with Warmachine, although having played Privateer's games for over 8 years I can say that it is not all sunshine and roses with them either. In fact, most of the long-time Warmachine players I know are starting to dump the game - or at least shove it way back into the closet. Their update & new release cycle is really starting to show it's age and there are some fundamental problems unique to Privateer & their game system.

That is so wrong. They increased their prices... So what? They make the best miniatures for their own game, if you don't like the prices buy your models elsewhere. I do, and trust me, it isn't necessarily cheaper, let alone better! Free markets are selfregulated. If you pricing is to steep, people won't buy your product!

I have no idea why gamers think they are entitled to decide if prices are right or wrong. The market will tell! I will rather pay a little more and be sure that gw prevails and keep updating an already great game.

BigDave, I do not know who you are, and I hope you'll enjoy warmachine instead, but blaming gw makes no sense. Don't like 8th ed, go play 7th. Nobody is forcing you to adapt! I love this edition, if they ever change it back, i'll keep playing this one. I've never met anybody who stopped playing monopoly because monopoly junior was released or because an expainsion was to expensive. It's just a choice based on preference.

Peace out.

That is so wrong. They increased their prices... So what? They make the best miniatures for their own game, if you don't like the prices buy your models elsewhere. I do, and trust me, it isn't necessarily cheaper, let alone better! Free markets are selfregulated. If you pricing is to steep, people won't buy your product!

I have no idea why gamers think they are entitled to decide if prices are right or wrong. The market will tell! I will rather pay a little more and be sure that gw prevails and keep updating an already great game.

BigDave, I do not know who you are, and I hope you'll enjoy warmachine instead, but blaming gw makes no sense. Don't like 8th ed, go play 7th. Nobody is forcing you to adapt! I love this edition, if they ever change it back, i'll keep playing this one. I've never met anybody who stopped playing monopoly because monopoly junior was released or because an expainsion was to expensive. It's just a choice based on preference.

Peace out.

It isn't just a matter of increasing prices it is also the principle in which they do so.
If it was a simple 1-5 dollar increase with no real change to the products (same + of sprues/models, etc) then it would be relatively fine with a little grumble here and there.

What is bad is what they are doing with a lot of the models in terms of short-changing us with significant increases on price with reduced number of models. The obvious example of course is orc boyz; from 42 bucks for 19-20 models to 35 bucks for 10 models? This is seen on a worse scale for armies like Imperial Guard where (unless you play mech-vets which many do simply because it's "cheaper")you need a lot simply to fill in one troops slot. These armies in particular aren't like space marines where you buy two and you're fine. Generally you need several boxes to make a viable regiment/troops choice, which is very bad for someone getting into the hobby and turns away many potential friends and others from developing or starting an army.

Finecast is another example of overcharging for cheaper and often degraded quality material, heck look at how the prices skyrocketed for the TGM for Empire lately. The metal ones cost around 20-25 bucks before, now they're 36 dollars? What justifies such an increase in price?

You brought up that you can buy from other retailers like mantic and avatars of war. They definitely make viable alternatives but once again the fact that you are forced to go towards generally lower quality (mantic wise) models already tells you how excessive GW can be when it comes to pricing. Even more so if you have to go so far as to play older game editions/army books because now you're hosed when it comes to playing in tournaments and even occasionally against friends if they wan't to play mainstream. So far Ebay and other discount retailers (which GW has also forced certain restrictions upon-ask people who play Warhammer in Australia) are the one of the few reasonable ways to get models.

I undertstand luxury goods are (almost) always expensive and it is choice-based on how you go about your purchases but it honestly annoys me when they start taking business standpoints on even the fluff and game itself; it is a business but you don't have to flaunt commercials which a lot of the "new" fluff is at this point. The prime example being Kaldor Draigo beating up daemon primarch's single handedly like he's Superman and the sudden inclusion of Demigryph Knights in the Knights Griffon and nerfing other previous units to make the new ones "no-brainers", heck look at the tyranids and what happened to carnifexes, or Orks for Looted Wagons.

Seriously, if GW at least gave a virtual or literal coupon every month whose value was based on 10% of the total amount of your purchases that month or did weekly sales on certain ranges of their models they could boost up the interest and give reasons/incentives for people to try and start out new armies.

Regardless, it's a matter of opinion I suppose so if you think GW is doing great as is then by all means more power for you, but I still think there is a LOT of room for improvement in general.

This post has been edited by Grimskul25 on Apr 7 2012, 07:51 PM

Don't know who you are, but sorry to hear you don't enjoy the game anymore. Good luck with Warmachine.

@Grimskull. I agree there is an issue when fluff itself becomes overly commercialized. "Character X has slain thousands of opponents single handed blah blah blah - (subliminal message: go out and buy him now.)" I would like the fluff to be good rather than just a vehicle to sell even more toys (and when they do provide decent fluff i appreciate it). But ultimately GW is a business and thus entitled to do what it wants, how much they commercialize the fluff is up to them.

This post has been edited by Craze_b0i on Apr 7 2012, 08:27 PM

Hope you enjoy PP. Some buddies and I looked into it too, but it has many of the same problems GW does. Nobody buys $100 worth of models and then is able to stop there. You need different models to go with different casters, etc. You'll still end up spending a whole lot of $$$ with PP. It is a different game though which may suit you better. If you think it's going to be way cheaper than GW though, you haven't done your research.

Hearing about how the market will solve everything, reminds me of this:



This post has been edited by Shimmergloom on Apr 8 2012, 12:22 AM

To be fair, this is not at all a new phenomena. They have been doing this since I started playing in the early 90s.

When I was first starting in 4th edition I was interested in starting Undead. Back then there was just one Undead army and all the vampires, necromancers, mummies, etc were all in the same book.

Back then skeletons came 4 skellies on a sprue. You could buy a box of 3 sprues for $12. So 12 skeletons for $12 - which was a pretty decent deal (especially as a kid with limited income). But right as I was working on starting up the army they decided to redo the number of models in many different boxes and pulled one sprue from the box. So it went from 12 models for $12 to 8 models for $12.

That is just one example. They have done that with countless units and models over the years. I'm not saying it is a good thing, or something not to be upset about, but it is not at all a recent trend.

Having read the Empire book and looked over their army section, your statement here does not really ring true.

Demigryph knights are cool, but they really are not that overly amazing. They are very expensive and are not super amazing. A single 58pt knight fights at slightly better effectiveness as a single Troll. The only thing that keeps them alive is their armor save. They are not bad, but they are certainly not super amazing either.

And the core troops were not nerfed. They got a slight points increase, but the amount of buffs that Empire can layer on their troops is rather staggering. You can make those cheap troops into very nasty & formidable troops. The meat of that army is still in the core section.

For example, it is pretty easy to take Halberdiers and give them Hatred, +1 to hit in melee, a 5+ ward save, and cold-blooded. And since Empire can choose any of the 8 core lores of magic they can easily go after the various buff spells. For instance, they can buy a lvl 1 wizard just for Wyssan's Wildform. That only costs them around 60 points or so. So you can then give those Halberdiers another +1 str in close combat (assuming you are sneaky enough to get around an enemy dispel)

So that is a unit that hits on a 3+ against any enemy WS6 or below, strikes at I3, can have a 5+ ward save on top of armor, is str 5, and can reroll misses in the 1st round of combat. For most armies something like this is an elite choice and Empire can easily accomplish that with relatively cheap core infantry. And it only really takes about 200-250ish points of support to do it (and some of that support buffs multiple units).

We would all be jumping for joy if we could do stuff like that with our core infantry. The only unit we really can do something like that with is Savage Orc Big 'Uns, and most people consider that to be the best unit in the army.

This post has been edited by Cannibalbob on Apr 8 2012, 04:33 AM