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 Protecting Fanatics Launch
Artiee
Posted: Feb 6 2012, 07:02 PM


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How do you protect fanatics launching? Players with scouts, fast cav and flyers keep launching my fanatics before I want too.
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Boss_Redcap
Posted: Feb 6 2012, 08:45 PM


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Snotling screen perhaps run them in a conga line 5-6" infront of your units with fanatics
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Cannibalbob
Posted: Feb 6 2012, 08:50 PM


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I generally don't protect fanatics. But I also don't really use them that heavily - and I play a force almost entirely comprised of Night Goblins. I do still use them, but I find they are better from a psychology & mess with your opponent standpoint than anything else.

After playing with fanatics for many many years I have learned that a determined opponent is generally going to force you to put them out at some point - often before you don't want to. Thankfully, they no longer have the chance to be forced out in a random direction - which was potentially very bad. So you should always be able to do something decent with their release. But they simply cost too many points and are too random to really rely on them as a core part of your damage-dealing strategy.
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Groznit Goregut
Posted: Feb 6 2012, 08:52 PM


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You can use a lot of other things to keep your Fanatics safe. We can have a lot of chariots in our lists. Wolf Chariots almost form an 18" bubble around them that enemy don't want to get close to. If you can keep away, you can keep them safe. Maybe Fast Cav, too. Manglers are good. There are a number of things you can swarm near your fanatics to try to keep the enemy flyers from hitting you. Just watch out if they do get clever and force you to release your fanatics SOMEWHERE.
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Artiee
Posted: Feb 6 2012, 10:26 PM


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The ppl at my LGC are getting smart, Running min scout unit, setting up 12" from my NG unit and then marching into range. One Orge guy buys sabertusks and run them into my Mangler or within the 8" of my NG. I wish there was a min size unit needed run into my mangler to kill it.

Ive had to resort to Hand of Gorking my Night Goblin unit to get them released.

Playing in a League, running 2 units of NG, 3 fan in one and 2 in the other. the 3 have to stay because they are in the fixed list part. Maybe I'll drop the 2 and put nets in that unit also.
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mickkk666
Posted: Feb 6 2012, 10:41 PM


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Groznit got some points there and I can add one more. A goblin big boss on wolf is one of the best ways to get rid of your opponents fast cavalry, which is the usual way to get out your fanatics. Cheap and effective. Can have a nice armour save and hit decently.

This post has been edited by mickkk666 on Feb 6 2012, 10:42 PM
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Cannibalbob
Posted: Feb 6 2012, 10:56 PM


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How many points are you playing Artiee? If it is a relatively low points game then that is a fair amount of points in fanatics. At 25 points each they add up quickly. For just 36 points you can buy a night gobbo hero with great weapon & light armor. Over the course of a game he can often add just as much, if not more, to the Night Gobbo unit as a couple fanatics. Just food for thought.
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Artiee
Posted: Feb 7 2012, 01:47 AM


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Playing 2500.. I dont have any wolf stuff yet.
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Boogeyman
Posted: Feb 7 2012, 04:46 AM


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I deal those annoying scouts, fast cavalry, and flyers with 2 doom divers
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Squigkikka
Posted: Feb 7 2012, 09:45 AM


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There are a lot of ways to hinder fanatic release, wolf chariots and wolf big bosses are two great tips. Other units that work well are manglers (a unit that stands on a mangler will not draw out a fanatic) and doom divers since they are accurate and hardhitting.

Artiee: Then you need to deploy the NGs better if scouts draw them out, that is some damn lazy effort on your part tongue.gif

Try deploying the NGs with fanatics further back in the deployment zone with other units (such as wolf riders) screening them. Then you can guarantee no turn 1 release!

Another way to protect your fanatics from early release is to have several NG units and some of them without fanatics. Then he'll not know where to go to release them! Bait him into bad positions! 20 NGs with a musician is 70p only.

Cannibalbob: I don't think comparing a big boss to a fanatic makes much sense. They both do vastly different things, and don't even fight for the same points tongue.gif Can a big boss with GW bring down a bloodthirster, or put 2d6 s5 on a unit he's not even fighting with?

Fanatics are expensive, but at the same time they are cheap considering the carnage they may bring (especially if a unit walks over them). What's more, you need to kill the parent unit to get points for them!

This post has been edited by Squigkikka on Feb 7 2012, 09:48 AM
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Groznit Goregut
Posted: Feb 7 2012, 05:52 PM


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If you don't play open lists, then it is worth it to have some NG units without any fanatics, but other support nearby to take out whatever tries to trigger them. You play a few games with opponents that throw away their little units to find out that there are no fanatics and they will start to reconsider!

Also, scouts have to set up 12" away from any of your units. Just make sure that you don't have anywhere within your deployment that they can do that with their scouts. Of course, if they put them 12" out front and get first turn, you can't do much. Just be careful where you put your units with fanatics.

I've always found the best use for fanatics were in support units that people forget about. The big enemy unit charges your Savage Orc Big Uns and forgets about that little unit of NG on the side.......They move within 8" of your unit and throw the fanatics right in their way! They usually land on top of them and take double damage. Now, they are seriously weakened when they fight your big unit. Doesn't always work, but people do forget sometimes! I fought another OnG and forgot just the other day....
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Cannibalbob
Posted: Feb 7 2012, 07:36 PM


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QUOTE (Squigkikka @ Feb 7 2012, 09:45 AM)
Cannibalbob: I don't think comparing a big boss to a fanatic makes much sense. They both do vastly different things, and don't even fight for the same points tongue.gif Can a big boss with GW bring down a bloodthirster, or put 2d6 s5 on a unit he's not even fighting with?

Fanatics are expensive, but at the same time they are cheap considering the carnage they may bring (especially if a unit walks over them). What's more, you need to kill the parent unit to get points for them!

Yes, they do different things. But I would argue that if your lone fanatics are killing bloodthirsters then you probably would have won that game regardless just due to opponent stupidity.

Fanatics are great, I use them, and have used them for many many years. In that time they have changed very little, other than to go down slightly in strength and can no longer be forced out randomly. Yes, they are cheap, but they start to add up across a list.

What a boss does in relation to fanatics depends on the night goblin unit. If the Night Goblin unit is set up to fight then my experience is that generally the boss is a bit better for the unit than one of the fanatics. Not in all cases, but quite a bit of the time. Now I am not talking about not using fanatics at all in these units, but rather using a bit less. Three fanatics is often points overkill. I would rather take less fanatics and spread them across multiple units than just dump them all into one unit. This assumes multiple units of night goblins and that you actually want to accomplish something with those units.

Things are different if your main intention is just to use small units as fanatic-delivery systems. If that is the case then just keep the night goblin units small & cheap and fill them up with fanatics. It depends what you want to do. Fanatics can cause a huge amount of carnage if your opponent falls for your traps and does not deal with them. They can also not accomplish anything at all. It depends a bit on luck, your experience setting up traps, and your opponent's experience dealing with those tricks.

This post has been edited by Cannibalbob on Feb 7 2012, 07:37 PM
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Gruntfuttock
Posted: Feb 8 2012, 07:47 AM


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OOOOHHHH Fanatics!!

How do I protect mine from scouts etc, take multiple units of Night Goblins, spread throughout your army set up in such a way that the first unit appears the most threatening whilst the last is set back toward your table edge (a bit) , only take fanatics in the last unit you put on the table, your opposition will react during set up to make sure he's close to the first unit apart from that, I don't do very much. Psychology of fanatics can be worse than actually taking them, try games without fanatics, then put them in once your opponent has twigged you're not taking them anymore.

when fanataics are released early (and your units is big enough to absorb tha damage) march through them, that freaks out opposition. If they cause damage to your army, laugh it off, after all it's part of the gamble of playing Orcs and Goblins..
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Squigkikka
Posted: Feb 8 2012, 09:06 AM


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Cannibalbob: My fanatics do not kill Bloodthirsters on an daily basis, it was merely an example of something big and scary a NG Big Boss couldn't handle! Anyway, it was to my tricksy schemes and opponent greed wink.gif

What I'm saying is that comparing the two is sort of weird, because they do different things and don't even fight over the same space of points. Fanatics do things a Big Boss cannot do, and a Big Boss can things a fanatic cannot. Like, not even remotely similar tongue.gif

If you want a Night Goblin unit capable of fighting the Big Boss is superior- altough I'd do a Goblin Big Boss for the extra 5p since LD7 is a lot better than 6, and Iniative matters little with a GW.

I agree with your thoughts about fanatics and fighting units and 3 being overkill. If a NG unit wants to fight, odds are they'll just have to waste the fanatic in a bad direction when they charge, so I'd not include it. Having 3 in one unit is too much, I usually go with 2 and sometimes 1. Spreading them out is better, because then the chances of them getting all in one go lowers.

However, you don't always have to trap opponents, it's enough to just kill off all diverters and sacrifical units. Most only have 1-3, and if they are spent on Manglers + other fanatics/killed off by Doom Divers... what's the opponent gonna do? He may very well be aware of where they are, but how can he stop it if he's only got mainstay units left?
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Cannibalbob
Posted: Feb 8 2012, 05:30 PM


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QUOTE (Squigkikka @ Feb 8 2012, 09:06 AM)
Cannibalbob: My fanatics do not kill Bloodthirsters on an daily basis, it was merely an example of something big and scary a NG Big Boss couldn't handle! Anyway, it was to my tricksy schemes and opponent greed wink.gif


Hey, I have killed a blood-thirster as well, but it was back in 5th ed and mainly due to opponent stupidity. I also rolled pretty well to cause 10 wounds (how many a bloodthirster had back then), but it was really stupid for him to charge right into the teeth of a unit he knew had fanatics in it. He never did that again...
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