<RANT>

My main opponent here in the monterey bay is a Chaos player. I decided to play a 5k game against him today. I don't get to play him often, but when I do, it always ends the same.

Bottom line: It's just way too frustrating.

I have said this before, but I just can't stand the endless stream of ridiculous rules and items that Chaos has. It makes me want to give up the game altogether whenever I play them.

It's games like these that I ask myself "WTF am I even playing these #!@tt%$ Orcs for? They suck pondwater!"

<END RANT>

... Got a batrep & a couple of lists for us? I mean, I feel the same way about Caz's stunties, but we still play on the basis of enjoyment, learning and free booze

I'd like to see what happened personally. YES, Chaos have special rules coming out the wazoo, but it's not as many as you'd think without having all the marks and all the subtypes (less than Woodies at any rate). So I'd like to see what you did, so we can give some suggestions

Cheers!

Borzag (slowly but surely building up a beard scalp collection)

What exactly happened.. o_O what rules? what kind of army did he have? O:
I request more details!

Chaos is way too overpowered. Too many options equals too many ways to be cheesy.

One thing that ticked me off was he slipped in the Keeper (although, that was the one outstanding thing I did was take him out with a SOWB in a chariot).

Mostly I am just so dissappointed in my greenskins. When I needed 2's I would roll 1's, when I needed a charge I would get a squabble. When I needed to run down a unit I would fall short. When I would be in a challenge my Warbosses were pathetic. When I would roll a 24 for a spell he would roll boxcars...on and on it went. Halving my WS, 1+ saves on those damn Knights! (even when I would hammer them with s8 attacks, they'd make their damn saves). Fanatics...I don't want to go there.

It was an endless pile of garbage. I don't have his list here in front of me, but I had a unit of 28 Orc Boy w/ 2 choppas on a lvl4 shaman on a boobsnake (he had a 3+ save, 4+ ward) and he held up that unit for 2 turns until 2 units of warriors finally came in to finish them off.

I need some new opponents.

You need some new dice

That happened to me in my last tournament (there's a reason there hasn't been a tourney report from me in a while). My first 2 games in a 3-game tournament were nothing but miscasts and missed hits. From a vampire LORD no less. I'd have 5 attacks and hit with 1, and the first 2 games I only had one succesful spell, and that went down the toilet (2d6 raise dead with irresistable force, and rolled a 2 so there weren't enough models to raise the unit in the first place). Sometimes you just have those days man....

I agree with Borzag here.

Also if you are suffering bad rolls now it can only get better. Hopefully in time the Nemesis Crown.

Quiet you. Too many options is the whole point of the Chaos army. Too many ways to be cheesy? Ignore the Daemonic Legions list and Daemons cannot stand on their own as an army, Mortal armies usually consist of about 3 blocks of troops and Beast armies have low Ld. Would you pay (I think) 18 points for a Bloodletter which has T3, a 6+ armour save and a 5+ ward against mundane either? Now make that a unit of 20 with command and you're over 300 points for something even D6 S4 hits would have a field day against.

How can Chaos have the 5 different Marks in the game if they have no unique benefits which come as special rules?

The Chaos magic items are far worse than the O&G ones. There are about 2 effective character setups with Chaos because the rest of the magic items are pretty much useless.

Let me get this straight. You take a fighty Orc army and expected to outfight a Chaos army which I'm guessing included many Chaos Warriors? No wonder you lost.

Eh? Chaos is good, no doubt about that, but it sure ain't cheesy.

Eh again. Chaos has loads of good magic items and many good character, and army, setups.

It's a wonder if somebody loses against chaos warriors with Orcs, not the other way round. Last time I checked, expensive and slow infantry was the weakest choice in the game.


Queequeg, it seems like you had a lot of bad luck. That just happens, especially with O&G. I've been there too. There's nothing more frustrating than seeing your unit squabble when they can make a rear-charge etc. That just happens, and very much so with O&G since they have a load of crippling special rules and stats (low ld, animosity, random movement of units etc.). If you're experiencing alot of that and don't like it, maybe you could consider another army that is more reliable?

Sometimes the dice gods hate you.

Truth is, that Warhammer is partly a game of chance, and sometimes even the best plans need some dice support. As O&G generals we often do what we can to mitigate dice as much as possible, but when the rolls arent there, there isnt much we can do about it. (conversely, if the dice are in your favor, the orcs are unstoppable)

All you can really do is look critically at the army you brought, the army he brought, how you deployed, and decide if there was anything you could do differently. It really sounds as if you lost not because of the "crazy rules chaos has" but because the dice failed you. Evaluate your army and decide if it relys too much on dice. If so, find more reliable options.

Luck is half the game, what are the chances that my very first spell with my high elf mage will roll 6.. 6... and 1.. 1... and then double 1 for the miscast result, right as the game starts?

Yes, sometimes, you lose the game by your own hand.

Okay, that is an understatement sir. I outfight chaos armies with goblins, yes you read it right goblins. And how does it come well chaos warriors cost 13pts each goblins 3 so I can field many more from them and I take netters, so that their warriors strike with only s3 and that I get my save, I also don't think a chaos warrior unit can outfight an orc unit, it are there characters that make the difference.


You must remember it is a game and the most important is to have fun , okay against some opponents it is hard to have fun but tell that to them.

Greetz
G

Perhaps the "ridiculous rules" were the fact that the player paid roughly 50 points for +1 wound and fear causing, 110 points for lvl 4 wizardry, 40 points for frenzy or immunity to psychology?

Perhaps it's that Undivided can re-roll psychology tests? What other benefit would you suggest for that mark?

And Chaos Warriors own units of Orcs anyday. Higher WS, higher S, higher I, higher armour save, higher Ld, probably higher attacks.

And the better stats mean that they always win combat? Never lost because my opponent had better stats, it is here that support units come into play. I never lost to a chaos army that contained warriors, but I lost a few times to a marauders that had lots of support. In real life even the best warriors can be beaten with tactics and support and it is not different in warhmmer.

Greetz
G

Even if you have the numbers, a flank and a rear, you better make the unit break. If it doesn't, all those bonus' add up to very little when they beat the tar out of you in the next or subsequent turn. This has happened repeatedly with my 'superior' orc and gobbos that are so cheap. Sorry, the cheap argument doesn't work for me.

On more than one occasion most of my models are not even in contact after the first round of combat on a flank, so they just sit there doing nothing but giving me a +1 flank bonus. Gee, that means a lot when they are doing 8 wounds on the front end with no attacks back there either. Cheap hoardes that sit around are no good to me.