Hello fellow Greenskins.

I've been hard at work trying to make a list that I think is a competitive tournament list. I have never played a game with Orcs and Goblins yet, but I have played against them. I have done quite a bit of browsing on this forum and have tried to implement many of the things I have seen in this list in hopes that it will be very competitive. Usually I am a just-for-fun, casual player. This time however I am hoping to make a very competitive list that will hopefully win more games than it will lose.

I should mention that all the Orc characters go with the Savage Orcs.

Please, please, please review my list and suggest any improvements to it that will make it stronger.


Lords
Orc Warboss (Shield, Sword of Anti-Heroes, Armour of Destiny)
Savage Orc Great Shaman (Level 4, Fencer's Blades, Obsidian Trinket, Lucky Shrunken Head)

Heroes
Black Orc Big Boss (Enchanted Shield, Talisman of Preservation, Battle Standard Bearer)
Night Goblin Shaman (Level 1, Dispel Scroll)
Night Goblin Shaman (Level 1, Ruby Ring of Fire)

Core
37 Savage Orcs (Full Command, Additional Hand Weapons, Big 'Uns)
5 Goblin Wolf Riders (Spears, Shields)
5 Goblin Wolf Riders (Spears, Shields)
49 Night Goblins (Full Command, HW/S, Netters, 2 Fanatics)

Special
30 Black Orcs (Full Command, Banner of Eternal Flame, Shields)
Goblin Wolf Chariot
Goblin Spear Chukka
Goblin Spear Chukka

Rare
Doom Diver Catapult
Doom Diver Catapult
Mangler Squigs
Mangler Squigs

==2500

I'd say drop a doom diver and drop the shields on the black orcs to add more black orcs. I find that black orcs attract a lot of enemy fire because they don't have a ward save. The more guys you have in the unit helps absorb the damage to hopefully make it to combat with enough guys to give you a good chance of being successful.

A pump wagon would do you some good also but IDK where else you could squeeze the points unless you dropped the 2nd doomdiver.

A good list regardless :yarr!:

Looks pretty good a few small suggestions
I have found Dawnstone, Dragonhelm, Warboar a good set up for the BSB, lets you use his great weapon and gives you a 2+ re rollable armour which is better than the ward most of the time.

Shields on the Black Orcs is a bet meh, only really helps them vs shooting and you want them in combat ASAP anyway.

Spear Chukkaz are not really worth it. Chance of misfiring and exploding is too high.

I don't agree with all you said here :lol: sorry.

A BSB on boar is resilient right, but he can't get look out sir from a cannon ball or a stone :P, so his 2+ reroll is useless. Also, death magic can snipe you till death. Is much better to keep him on foot with a ward save.

Shields are great on BO. They make them more resilient and a 4+ save is really good, taking into account that they have T4 too. For 1 point, it worth a lot.

Spear chukkas have exactly the same probabilities of exploding as rock lobbers. So, you mean that rock lobbers don’t worth too? I don’t think so. Is true that they are not going to kill everything, but if you deal some wounds to a monster for example, you’ve returned its points. My recommendation is to try them several games and see if it fits you, but I think you should field them after including some rock lobbers.

So my tips:

- Keep the doom divers, they are great and they can always target something worthy.
- Add a rock lobber or even 2!
- They unit of NG is enough with 40. So you can spend those points on anything else.
- Last but not least, try all you can! Your list is tough, but it’s a really common set up that you will find in lots of lists. Experiment with all the units or combinations you can imagine, that way you will see that you can do nice lists without using the typical units that everyone uses ;).

I know you have the Black Orc hero for Animosity, but for the price of him and the shields on the Black Orcs you could have a bunch of heros of Night Goblins for the Night Goblin Hoard. It's something I'm testing out. Or of course you could have more war machines. Either choice is fine.

Thank you for all of your advice, you have given me a lot to think about.

I am not sure I feel confident about leaving my BSB on a boar and vulnerable to artillery without benefiting from a LOS! roll.

I do however have skepticism regarding the spear chukkaz. I have experienced them blow up or simply bounce off units far too often. I took them in this list merely because they were cheap war machines.

I am also unsure about having the single goblin wolf chariot. From what I have read they are better in pairs. I can't help but wonder if the points invested on this chariot as well as points from the spear chukkaz and the removal of night gobbos and possibly shields on black orcs could be used for something more useful? I'm thinking rock lobber or snotling pump wagon.

Also, as for placement of the general. Would he do better in my black orc unit so that he isn't forced to overrun somewhere where my army can't benefit from his leadership?

What are your thoughts?

The BSB on Boar isn't a bad choice but it depends on what else is in the list. If I was to field an arachnarok I would take a black orc on boar with a charmed shield and 4+ ward every time. Nobody is going to fire their cannon or stone thrower at the BSB knowing he will ignore the first on a 2+ and get a 4+ ward versus the remainder. The Spider is a much safer target for your opponent to shoot and that's what your opponents will think 90% of the time. Having said that if my army was a monster free zone he would definitely be on foot!

A good list..

But here are some points you can consider

Savage Orcs are very easy to control by the opponent (if he is skilled)
I know u lose 1 attack on every model + ward save.. but if u use common Big'Uns u are in control, and have some extra points to use on other things..

I miss chariots too, it does'nt matter what kind...

I would prefer Lobbers instead of chukkas..

as said before 40 night goblins can do the job..
I also prefer wolf riders as cheap as possible, because their role is to block and slow the enemy down, not fight the enemy..

I agree that Lobbers are better than Spear Chukkas. But if you don't want lobbers than I would go with some Night Goblin Heros with great axes; only 34 points a piece. These are good with netters. And I know this forum loves Mangler Squigs, but to me they just die. Maybe with that cost, you could get some more Night Goblin heros, then replace the spear chukkas with 1 or 2 Lobbers. Just my 2 cents.

Also you could take the Banner of Eternal Flame giving all your men in the unit flaming attacks. This is good against Trolls and things like the Skaven Rat Abomination or just anything that's flammable or has regeneration. Also you could take the Channeling Staff, as this way it increases your channeling attempts by 1/6 on the hero.

I find it a really solid list. Good job!

I agree that 40 Goblins should be enough. You can even knock it down to 38 since you have some characters there. If you did that, you would have enough to buy a cheap NG hero with Great Weapon. Just one in there would be good.

Where is the BSB going to go? In the Savages? Is he there just to remove Animosity? I find my Savages get placed wherever they need to and can get Hand of Gorked all over. I would probably want my BSB in with my General. That's just me, though. Doesn't remove Animosity from the SOBU. I haven't found it to be TOO much of an issue. If you did that, you wouldn't need him to be a BO. Your call, though.

Rock Lobbas are great against war machines and monsters. Oh, and ranked infantry. I usually need at least one in my list, but most of your army has a lot of high S attacks. You might not need one, unless you want to take out war machines. I'm torn with the idea of the speark chukkas vs rock lobba. I wouldn't take 1 chukka (anymore) as it just misses. Chukkas can be useful, especially with all the heavy cavalry that's now back. Them and 2 Doom Divers can really hurt a lot of Mournfang. Tough call....

I say keep the Savages Big Uns. I've tried regular. They aren't bad, but they are just NOT as powerful as SOBU.

I like 2 chariots. I go with one wolf and one boar. If paired together and against an archer unit, send the boar in first to soak up the shots. It's slower, though. Two wolf are good, too, though!

Thanks for all of your replies and positive feedback. I will post an updated list quite soon that incorporates much of your feedback.

The BSB is placed with the savage orcs to quell animosity. In an army full of randomness I like the idea of maintaining some control in what my units do, and having my main combat block squabble on a potentially vital turn could be obviously devastating.

I am still not sure where I sit on spear chukkas. I do find them fairly unreliable, however as an ogre player I can not count the number of times I have had my mournfang flee the board because a spear went right through one of them. I do miss the idea of having a rock lobber however as I do feel that I don't have much anti-monster stuff (although, the mangler squigs can certainly help with that).

Two more questions that I have:

1) As mentioned above I enjoy to be in control of my army (or as much control as I can get from these gits). The idea of my opponent redirecting my main combat unit with cheap units or forcing overruns because of hatred to get my savage orcs out of the game for a little while is frightening and does make me seriously consider changing this unit to regular orc boy big uns but the loss of the extra attacks from this unit makes me think that it would be much less effective. Am I wrong? Are savage orc big uns really the standard now or would I be more effective using orc boys instead.

2) Again with the control element, I can't help but wonder if having my general in the unit of savage orcs may mean that my leadership bubble could end up very far from where I need it to be. Would it be therefore more useful to have him in the black orc unit so that he is possibly more central? If I change the savage orcs to regular orcs should I keep him in that unit? Or should I put him on a mount and have him move to where I need him to be (I do hesitate with this option as there is so much artillery that leaves me vulnerable without a LOS! roll).

Again, please give me your thoughts and I will post an updated list. Again, thanks for all your advice and kind words, you guys rock!

I got a question for you. Do you run your Sav Orcs ina hoard?

Snuggles: Yes, I usually run my SOBU in horde formation to maximise on their killy potential.

You have to consider the pros and cons...

Savages are have an extra attack, which makes them really deadly in cc.. But the are not reliable, because of their frenzy..

The common orcs on the other hand are reliable but not as dangerous in cc as the savages, but still a tough unit..

I think it's a matter of what army you are playing against and how you play your own army..

Hello again all!

As promised I have come up with an updated list that I think will help me be a little bit more competitive. As it always comes down to in making new lists, in order to include something you must remove something else in it's place. I am afraid that what was removed may not be worth what I added. Again, please provide me with your thoughts and ideas on this list.

Lords (503)
Orc Warboss
+ Shield
+ Sword of Anti-Heroes
+ Armour of Destiny
Savage Orc Great Shaman
+ Level 4
+ Fencer's Blades
+ Obsidian Trinket
+ Lucky Shrunken Head

Heroes (324)
Black Orc Big Boss
+ Battle Standard Bearer
+ Enchanted Shield
+ Talisman of Preservation
Night Goblin Big Boss
+ Great Weapon
Night Goblin Shaman
+ Dispel Scroll
Night Goblin Shaman

Core (722)
37 Savage Orcs
+ Full Command
+ Additional Hand Weapons
+ Big 'Uns
5 Goblin Wolf Riders
+ Spears
+ Shields
35 Night Goblins
+ Nets
+ 2 Fanatics

Special (575)
30 Black Orcs
+ Full Command
+ Banner of Eternal Flame
Goblin Wolf Chariot
Goblin Wolf Chariot
Goblin Spear Chukka
Goblin Spear Chukka

Rare (375)
Goblin Rock Lobber
Doom Diver Catapult
Doom Diver Catapult
Mangler Squigs
Mangler Squigs

=2499

I decided to go with the brutal melee force that the savage orcs provide over the reliability of orc boyz. I have put thoughts into knowing that my enemy would likely try to redirect my savage orc unit and so I brought along things to try to take out enemy chaff. The spear chukkaz are mainly going to be used to shoot at chaff. The goblin chariots will be on each flank chaff hunting as well as supporting my main combat blocks when necessary. I added in the rock lobber to shoot at big monsters that could cause me problems. A big concern with my army is enemy warmachine fire as I only have the one unit of wolf riders. The wolf rider unit will go after warmachines and hopefully the doom divers can help as well. If necessity dictates the chariots can also be used for this purpose.