So I play a guy who takes a lot of bloodletters to the table. I have to say I can't really find anything that can toe it with them.

Black orcs lose, A-rock spider loses (though it does some damage first), NG can tie them up for a while but he is not dumn enough to get them stuck with NG (uses fiends to tank the gobbos).

Savage orc biguns can give them a serious fight but still typically end up losing due to the rerolls to hit from the locus beating the frenzy out of them :S

So what tactics do people have?

Trolls can work well but often get fried by flamers before they can get to grips

Squigs could be fun and would at least deal some pretty badass damage in return.

Chariots could be good one hit wonders on them and could perhaps make them combat ineffective with enough hits. Expensive to throwaway though.

Foot would not be too good due to 4+ save against magic

So then, what genius ideas do my fellow warbosses have to deal with those stupidly good daemons core?

The best solution is to multi assault them. SO big uns can do a really good chopping against them, but the best idea is to charge them with several units and deal lot of wounds. Unstable will help too, so try to deal as much damage as possible.

As a primary Daemon player, there are two things that I watch out for with my Bletters against O&G.

- NGs: a unit of 60+ with Nets and spears deployed 5 wide will ruin Bloodletters' day. With so few attacks they can't kill enough NGs to grind down steadfast quickly, and with spears vs T3 you can actually put a solid dent in the unit before you go down.

- SOBUs: toe-to-toe the Bloodletters will usually win (barely), but if you can get a combi-charge here you should be good to go.

They also really dislike Rock Lobbas :P

I was thinking a big bus of NG with nets and spears. Throw in the SOBU in the flank or a few chariots and such, as well. Weaken the unit any way you can ahead of time with rock lobbas and such. Maybe flank them with a 2nd unit of Goblins and use Sneaky Stabbin.

I would also say Trolls. The tank those bastards really good, being immune to their killing blows. Only problem is that they're just prime targets for his flamers... those are just hard to deal with.

I wound't go into the front of a horde with anything but nigh goblins though. Never put characters in the tanking unit either.

Other than that. Rock lobbers and chukkas on the flanks (so you can get lots of hits) and chariots will help whittle him down...

But all in all, I just find that daemons is a really hard matchup for the greenskins.

This isn't a bad suggestion either! Overall, goblin magic is pretty nice against daemons. Gork I'll fix it is a great spell as well.

Cheap chariots, get a load of impact hits before there is even a swing :).

Trolls are fantastic if the bloodletters are not led by a herald with the fireblade (which they usually are, sadly).

I'd say chariots are the best option open to you, preferably as part of a larger charge. Impact hits at S5 screw with Daemon T3 and will go before any other attacks.

Squig herd combo'd with itchy nusciance. If you can hit them before they hit you, then you'll be happy.
They are tough to grind down otherwise though...

Remember that Sneaky Stabbin also works with impact hits and chariots in the flank....

You can't reroll the chariot impact hits, only the wounds caused by them.

This is the most palatable solution to them, though you can swap Squigs in for Savage Orc Big 'Uns if you like. The key is to beat them up before they do so to you, and Itchy Nuisance is really the only way O&G can do that.

correct. I wasn't saying otherwise.

A badass big boss with tricksy trinket and a big bad chariot!!!

I don't get it? I expect that you mean other tricksters shard? So... He does 4 unsaved wounds on impact and then gets killed? I can hardly spot a build that'll keep him safe frem 12 s5 attacks that hit on 4s, reroll to hit, and have killing blow?

Togheter with a unit of bashing orcs ofcourse, not by himself.

Still getting KB'd, and that Chariot isn't holding up very well against Bloodletter swings. Those Orcs had also better be Savage Big 'Uns, because no other unit in our army can fight Bloodletters to even a standstill.

The NG option worths a lot too. With spears they can deal some wounds to those T3 daemons. Then, a nice flank charge with some squigs with sneaky stabbing will ruin their day :D.

Lots of ideas it seems. Keep em coming fellas! Do people think a 100 strong night goblin horde with spears could possibly grind them down? (would take horrendous losses but with general nearby could maybe do so). Poison buff would work wonders in that situation. A lack of heroes would also make daemons kb useless. Better hope he doesnt leadership bomb though... Or get a plague wind off...

Savage orc biguns are also solid but the Shammie with the shrunken head is begging for a kb to the face which would make them unable to stand against them. Trolls would be great if they could get into combat but if he has a flaming locus or flamers you are stuffed.

Have people tried an a-rock spider before? Only gets wounded on 5s, with mork will fix it could be quite resilient. If you manage to get nets in there too it's just 6s and spidey would sure give them quite a slapping every round.

Any other thoughts?

I would only consider Arachnarok in the flank with something else in the front. It doesn't do well against a lot of high S attacks. Even with T6 and 4+ AS, the 'Letters can kill it.

The key with the Big 'Uns is to keep the Shaman in the corner of the Horde. That way, he absorbs a maximum of 6 attacks, which should be hitting on 4+ and wounding on 4+. Also note that he'll have a 5+ Ward save, so he at least has a fighting chance on KB's.

You need to cull his numbers, even if it means suiciding some chariots in. Preferably, hit him with a pump wagon or two (though they are better used to wipe out flamers) before a big block of netter night gobbos in combo with a chariot or two. Your initial hits should put hell of a dent in the unit, and the nets will mean he is wounding boar chariots on 5's and saving on 5's.

RoV

A very good point, actually. Chariots can't be KB'd, and Impact Hits will help diminish the threat posed by the Bloodletters and their I4. I like where this is going.

Chariots can reduce their numbers, but that is not enough. What if you charge and just get one hit? I would say pump wagons are better, but also they become a magnet for flamers.

Have two separate mounted characters with 2+ ward flaming for hunting Flamers then! :D

I always have them! Even if I don't play against daemons! I usually include these options: big boss on wolf with dragonbane gem and big boss on gigantic spider/great cavern squig with dragonhelm. They are a must in my lists!

I would have thought the big boss on the squig with dragonhelm would be a bit squishy. Only a 3+ save? That won't really stand up to much right? Concentrated fire or even chaff could take it out...

Anything I am missing as I really love GCS bosses.

It seems the general consensus with regards to bloodletters is pound them with chariots and warmachines until they are combat ineffective. Vindictive glare is nice too.

Does anyone think a 100 strong unit of NG with spears or HW/S could possibly grind them down through sheer persistence?

I was saying what protection against fire have each other, not the whole equipment :P. The big boss on GCS has: dragonhelm, LA and shield (apart from other magic objects). That makes 2+, not 3+.

Is it a 2+ save?

LA = 6+
Shield = 5+
Mounted = 4+
Dragonhelm = 3+

Is there any other modifier? GCS only gives +1 to save as far as I know unlike gigantic spider +2

Yeah, you are right. I was confusing it with the gigantic spider save. But still, he is perfect for dealing with flamers. Having +4 (-1 due to S4 flamer attack) and 2++, he can deal with them with ease. And even better, they cannot stand and shoot against him.

only if is a great shaman with fencers, otherwise he'll be hit with 3+.

its only 1 extra hit from 6, but more likley for the killing blow.

People run them with anything else? They're braver than I.

I read this somewhere else on these forums but how about a fighty character in with your big uns with something that would make it strike faster than the herald. Kill it before he gives the whole unit hatred and the SO Biguns are treated to a fair fight. The trick would be to line up your characters with his and be deployed straigt across. You could take advantage of the FAQ rule that lets you move your characters if you just make a normal move.

It was suggested to have the Always strikes first sword and a potion of speed to give your save orc lord 5 rerollable str 6 attacks on the herald. Just might work..

Not a bad idea, my only thought is that the Letters Have a greater charge range with there extra d6 banner and M5. If you can line up your warboss to make sure he is in a good position to touch there herald this would be great but only on your own turn with the charge as you cant pop the potion on your oponents turn. I for one would just use the I 10 blade and hope for good rolls :D

Unlike when fighting deamonettes, I don't go after the herald in bloodletters.

The bonus it gives is only in the first round and even though you could take it out with an ASF warboss, that build wouldn't be best in the majority of other situations, not to mention it being bad to put a warboss against a unit with killing blow.

Finally the herald can have armor which mean less combat res for you if you are attacking it with troops.


Personally I try and weaken them when range while they are coming in and then hit them with my best unit, which against them would be squigs since their strength stays the same from round to round (usually they don't pop in one go), no save to be ignored, and they will be wounding on 2+.

Squigs are probably your best bet against them, altough you need to field a disproportionate amount of Squigs pointswise in order to make sure you stay steadfast and have enough combat troops left after the first round of fighting. Depending on the bloodletter unit, it would not be unreasonable to assume that 80% of the attacks will be succesfull wounds, so base the math on that stuff.

Best is to combocharge them with chariots and fighting troops.

I guess it dependss on the size of the Bloodletter unit. A unit of 20 is half as bad as a unit consisting of 35-40.

Usually So BigUns with the Shrunken head can go toe-to-toe with them. Otherwise you need to weaken them beforehand with artillery and magic.

I also like the idea posted earlier of a big block of Night Gobbos who are just 5 wide.

Cheers

Big 'Uns with shrunken should avoid Bloodletters if at all possible due to the fact that they have KB and that Shaman doesn't like KB. At all.

Gork'll Fix It spell from the Little Waagh helps out any unit facing this Horde (re roll 6's) further to this a nice sizable bus of Night Goblins in the front with a supporting unit of Squigs in the flank (with Sneaky Stabbing if you can get it) works wonders

I had 100 NG spears fighting Bloodletters once. They would have won the grind if the Warboss hadn't got himself Dwellered elsewhere. Bloodletters are only T3 and don't have a lot of attacks so they aren't grinding large numbers of cheap troops very well. With nets it's just 3+ to hit and 3+ to wound, that's not nearly enough dead gobbos.

The 5 wide NG unit is certainly more points efficient though, and leaves a lot more space to hit the weakened Bloodletters with something killy.

I don't recall this being mentioned, but Squig Herds backed up by an Itchy Nuisance that score at least -2 WS/I will make a mess out of Bloodletters, while being cheaper.