This came into question and I was hoping to get some help from the great minds at Dakka.


I have a Night Goblin unit with a BSB in it that took the Banner of the Bad Moon. One of the abilities of this banner is that any enemy unit that charges this model or the unit this model with this banner is in, has to take a dangerous terrain test.

The question is.....if this unit is inside dangerous terrain, and the enemy unit charges it, will the enemy unit have to take a dangerous terrain test for charging through dangerous terrain, then test again once completing the charge against this unit with that banner? Or do they only test once that phase for dangerous terrain?



The next question deals with VP.

If my enemy's unit started off with, let's say 100pts, and I've destroyed all but, let's say 20 points, and at the end of the game that unit with 20 pts left is fleeing, but has not fled off the table, do I not get any VP from that unit because I did not completely kill it?

Also, that same unit in question...........me and my opponent were playing Mission 5, with a twist where the objective to win was to have more points then your opponent on your deployment area and his deployment area. If the unit that is fleeing that was once worth 100 points and now only has 20 pts worth in it, does that unit still count as having 100 pts towards that objective since it was not completely destroyed, or are the points left in the model what counts?

Question 1.

Yes, but remember that the Bad Moon Banner only makes whatever is in base contact with the first rank take a DT test. That usually means 5-7 models which on average is like 1 guy dead, making the Bad Moon Banner totally worthless.

Question 2.

You get no points for it. 100% Killed or fleeing off the board is the only way to get points.

Question 3.

I imagine that fleeing troops don't count, but I don't play the scenarios from the book so I don't know them very well.

So a unit that is fleeing at the end of the game......I won't get the points for any models I killed in that unit, but at the same time whatever models are left in that unit, those are the only points that would be on the table?

I'm not entirely sure what you mean! You have to kill all models of a unit to get points for it. Even if they were 100 and there's only 1 guy left, you need to kill him or not get any points at all.

I'm not referring to getting points. I understand that.

What I'm saying is, if there are only two models from that unit on the board......would those two models only represent their points value?

The scenario objective I had to play was in order to win, you need more points then your opponent on your deployment area, and his.

So, if his unit only has 2 models left out of let's say 10, then only the points of those 2 models left would have anything to do with that objective, not the points of the models killed.

Since you made up your own rules and objective, there's no real answer to that question. I'd tell you that it'd be worth its full points, but then again that's up to you and your friend how'd you like to handle it.

How about this.....perhaps this is interpretation?


You get VP at the end of the game for every enemy unit you killed.

If I have a NG unit that starts off with my General and BSB in it, and by the end of the game the NG unit and BSB are killed but General is still alive, does my opponent get VP for that unit, even though part of that unit, the General, is still alive? Would he get VP by considering that a "mixed unit" with the General and BSB separate?

Or would he not get VP for the NG, nor the BSB because the General was still alive and they all started out comprised as one unit?

I wouldn't say the badmoon banner sucks. You get pretty much for less than 100points - including the bigboss and banner that means. He suffers from the same drawbacks every bsb with a magic banner does but the BM banner gives some nice bonuses. The dangerous terrain test is well, it´s there so I take it with the rest but the other bonuses are way better. I haven't tried the banner yet since I just play my orc army right now but it sounds ok at least.

While I am not thrilled about a less protected BSB ( I normally take a Blorc or regular Orc Big Boss, give them a shield, a mount and 4+ WS), when looking at the bad moon banner, I did think the perks were good for the price.

Enemy models charging into base contact take D.T. tests....the unit is considered in soft cover, and it's stubborn. I keep my General with that unit right next to the BSB on the far end.

He your get VP for the NG Unit and the BSB. The general and BSB is seperate they are not brought with the join. They join the unit once the game starts.

The Bad Moon Banner is too expensive for what it does.

- Your BSB is left defenseless, T4 with 2W and 5+ armor will die to anything.

- Stubborn means little among Goblin units. For 100 pts you could get 30 extra Goblins instead, or 15 if you want Armor of Destiny on the BSB for example. Most of the time a Goblin unit will be steadfast no matter what.

- Consider this! Your unit may be stubborn, but your BSB is not going to be alive for long enough to actually give out the benefit. It's not unlikely he will die from 1 round of combat, and he will definitely be dead from 2 rounds.

- Goblins are almost never going to be shot at because there's always more dangerous units (fast cav, chariots, manglers, heroes, elite units etc). So, soft cover matters little.

- The DT test will on average kill 1 guy, since it's only the front rank that has to take it and not the entire unit.

Well, if you play a ng army there are no tougher big bosses around.
In a mixed army I would never take a goblin bsb but a pure ng army is another story.
I wouldnt promote the banner but I wouldnt say it sucks either.

I'd say it sucks a lot though, there are almost no benefits to it.

Some tournaments will rule that fleeing units grant victory points too, but as it stands in 8th you either have to cut down your opponent when they flee or hack them down individually. Always remember to target your opponent's characters, even if by turn 6 you've killed 99 of those 100 goblins, unless you've taken the characters with them you're getting nothing.

Arfa da Grate

Hi guys, I have a question about Bad Moon banner (I've searched forum already for any answer and I didn't find it): I have a Night Goblin BSB and gave him Bad Moon Banner. What happens if I put him to f.e. Orc Boyz unit? Do they have stubborn and they are count as being in soft cover?

Why stubborn for unit? If NG BSB have this banner he is stubborn (he's Night Goblin :) ). Rule for Stubborn says: "(...) If a Stubborn character joins a unit, that unit is Stubborn whilst he remains amongst its ranks."

Or the statement:" Night Goblin models in a unit with the Bad Moon banner are Stubborn" counts only for other than BSB Night Goblins in unit?

Please help :unsure:

No, you are quite correct! :D If one model has stubborn, the entire unit has it aswell. The Bad Moon Banner mentioning that "Only NG models are stubborn" or whatever is stupid because only a NG BSB can take it, and he makes any unit he joins stubborn since he himself is a Night Goblin.

Ok, nice, thx for reply :) .

So let's sum up: If I take NG BSB and give him Bad Moon Banner and put him into Savage Orc Boyz unit, the whole unit have stubborn, shroud (-1 to hit on raged attacs) and an enemy unit will have to make Dangerous Terrain tests when it will charge my unit of Savage Orcs with NG BSB. Correct?

Almost. The Bad Moon Banner only makes whatever touches your unit take a dangerous terrain test, that is, only the FRONT RANK will take the DT. On average that's 1 dead guy.

Yes, I've red whole topic and someone mentioned that, but thanks anyway for help. :)

It's not a very good banner, just saying :P