Well I'm returning to WHFB after about a 10 year break. One of the armies I am looking into is O&G, mainly because I already have models and they seem to fit my criteria; however I have read a few times that the army is just not competitive. Now I'm not looking for the MOST competitive army out there, but I would like an army that has strong potential to do well under high quality playing.

Is this lack of competitiveness due to the randomness in the army? Or is it due to something else, like ill priced troops, poor stat lines, or lack of versatility in the list?

Before I make a choice I want to do plenty of research on various armies. Other armies I am currently considering are Lizardmen, Empire, Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings.

well your going to get pretty one sided answers on this forum :)

i cant comment to much on how good they do at tournies etc,
but for friendly games youll win as many as you loose.
they can be played very well, and just like you said randomness somties puts a stone in your shoe and you have to re-think your tactics - but this just makes good generals shine even more.

as for the other armies your looking into.
empire are a good army,
i just find them very dull, sure they can have a lot of diff lists like O&G can.

its probally just me but writing an empire list feels like filling out your tax return form.


probally not the best responce but at least it is a responce :)

GREEN ALL DA WAY!!

The army is good. However all the random factors many times prevent us from scoring really high in tournaments. If you're lucky, and have planned for minimizing luck's influence you can do well with greenskins.

Orcs and Goblins can be good but don't expect them to go toe to toe with alot of other armies, unless they got Ere we Go.

Generally low WS when compared to other armies like Dwarves, Elves, WoC/DoC has a significant impact in CC.

No great weapons for core troops.. so it feels as if all orc boyz or goblins can do is die : (

Generally all units need to be supported with combo charges, or characters. (though same can be said for everyone)

The doomdiver is nice, and Orc magic has alot of potential.

Additionally the randomness factor of Orcs and Goblins can be removed by black orc boss spam.

I'd say OnG are about mid-table. OP armies like skaven will make us look bad but against most armies we match up ok.

Animosity is no longer the strategy killer it once was, it won't stop you charging anymore like it used to - not unless you are super unlucky.

I think magic is one area we are lacking a bit, Little Waaagh (goblin magic) is ok but a lot of spells in Big Waaagh (orc magic) leave me underwhelmed.

I think OnG is around upper-mid tier, at least in comparison to the more recent 8th ed army books. Overall with the rest of the 7th army books however it is slab dab in the middle. OnG have never really been a very powerful army book (which I am grateful for) but one strong point in comparison to many armies is that they definitely have amazing diversity in the composition of an army and from that many "unorthodox" or widely considered uncompetitive builds can take people off guard who are used to cookie cutter lists.

This plus the fact that we have several reliable heavy hitters (Black Orcs and possibly the SO Big 'Un Shrunken Head Deathstar for example) means we have about enough answers for most things that opponents can throw at us. The only thing that the other army books have over us right now is magic, especially Shadow or Light, that gives them a ridiculous amount of powerful magic that can neutralize or destroy our units.

For the most part OnG in my opinion is an army where you want to give your opponent a good fight but also have a great deal of fun, since we don't really have anything super cheesy, are often quite random in destructive power and never lose cause we can come back for anuther fight!

O&G are fine. I'd go so far as to say they have the most potential of all the 8th edition books. However, there is some randomness in the army, and it really can screw you up sometimes. :) But we have a lot of well-priced troops (Some are even bordering on just too cheap, like Squigherds and maybe Nightgoblins with nets), we are tied with Empire for most versatility, and overall our troops have pretty good statlines for the points you pay. But Animosity can be a problem.

Things I like about O&G:

*Good solid troops
*An absolute treasure throve of supportunits
*Good magic
*Decent (and cheap) Warmachines
*SO MANY GOOD SUPPORTUNITS
*A lot of fast-moving troops and chaff units

Things I don't like:

*Umm...
*Ehhh...
*Hmmmmmmm...

:lol:

Theo

Yes, Yes they are.

However go with an army that "speaks to you" not just " will it screw over all comers" no army is invincible, EVERYONE of them has a built in weakness of some kind.

With O&G you will have a lot of fun and a lot of frustration when things don't go your way in battle.

I love them :wub: and have been playing with them for more years than I care to remember. I've lost horrendously and I've pulled spectacular victories both in competative play and for fun.

It's not all about fluff, Och who am I kidding!!! :) but if the models attract you along with their style of play, then go for it.

Your army choice really depends on what you want out of your army, if you want a tournament list that will mulch people on a regular basis then the Orcs and Goblins are as stated previously Mid Table due to the randomness of rules specifically Animosity.

I think that it also depends on the point values that you play, I love my Greenskins in 1-1.5k games anything above and I tend to take my Tomb Kings

However if you want a competative 'fun' list then I don't think you can go wrong with O&G. I recently had a break and have been playing Tomb Kings for the last 6 months and every time I turn up for a game people are dissapointed that I haven't brought my Orcs and Goblins along because there have been soooo many "remember when...." moments in games.

So purely from my own biased view I would suggest O&G or TK.

Thanks for the replies!

I posted a similar thread on Librarium, but I included my three aspects that I "like" when playing an army. Sorry I should have posted this!

Infantry or big blocks - I don't know what it is, but I love using infantry or big units (flying, calv. etc...). Both my dwarf and O&G armies I played had lots of infantry. I like rolling all those dice.

Specialization - I like specializing or theming in tactics games and when I play MMO's or even roleplaying games like D&D (My character is heavily themed in frost, being from a fey court associated with Winter). For instance, an army themed around a certain magic school or around being highly mobile. Not that mobility is my preferred theme, but an army where I can specialize or theme in an aspect while remaining somewhat competitive is ideal. A mixture of a varied backstory and diverse list (I guess) would be ideal.

Randomness/Redundancy - I sort of enjoy a bit of randomness, such as in the O&G army, but I also want an army that has some redundancy available in case things go awry. I don't want my army to be screwed if one unit is destroyed or ran off the board. I guess I am trying to say no one trick ponies; more fragile armies are fine as long as victory doesn't hinge on one or two units or characters. I'm speaking theoretically, obviously an expensive, powerful wizard that fails to perform during an entire game may tip the scales in my opponents favor but in theory if he were to die it wouldn't destroy my chances. Hopefully that makes sense.

So basically I whittled down my choices to the following:

O&G
TK
Skaven
Empire

O&G are my original army, and they'll always be a part of me *hugz* The army seems to fit what I like and I have a few older models already and there is redundancy. However, I was just worried about their tourney capabilities, since I have heard a single unit can cause army wide panic.

Empire has a new book, TK's are being touted as good but not over-powered and Skaven just seem too brown, maybe they are fun to play.

So, after this, does O&G still fit?

Well I put some bids in for some O&G boxes on Ebay, so if I win some of those I'm playing O&G. :-D

Good for you. The major down side to playing O'n'G's though is when you come to da-warpath and have to put up with Theorox. But don't worry about him as we moderators of the forum can easily keep him in check :D. I wont restate either what has already been said but I suspect you wont regret your choice if you get that ebay bid. But if you want themes, there are plenty of examples of themed O'n'G armies right here on da-warpath. Everything from Piratical Orcs to forest Goblins to all mounted, to all night goblin, all common goblin, even a Christmas themed army and lots more.

Thanks! I'm pretty sure I'm going O&G.

As for themes, I'm excited to start exploring again. I need to snag the new rule and army books, but I think I have read enough to bid on some lots on Ebay. I'll probably snag the books from my FLGS.

Have a browse through the modelling diaries here on the site. Loads of themes and ideas to get the creative thinking going.
For myself, I need a theme to have any motivation to get an army done. The problem these days is simply lack of time to actually play the game :(

RoV

WUT'Z DIS, YA LIDD'L BACkSTABBY GIT?! :angry: *Kicks Snikpik in his mod-rump* :lol:

Keep me in check...dat's ridiculourz...

Theo

lol. i too have just got into orcs and goblins. having my first match today so i will tell you how it goes. randomness is bound to happen but thats what makes orcs and gobbos fun. if your a good general then you could win a tournament . but sometmes the randomness gets in the way. although somemtimes the models know best

Well I just won a lot of 50 orc boys with three sets of commands, so I'm going O&G for sho'!

Now to find a good, solid "core" to build an army around and pick up the army book, haha.