Title: A Couple Of Rule Questions
Description: Fanatics and shrunken head
X'Nork - April 20, 2012 05:56 PM (GMT)
Couple of rule questions I need help with.
When fanatics are released, how is this resolved?
1. Place fanatics down and nominate direction of each fanatic. Then roll how far each go.
2. Place fanatics down and nominate direction and roll for one at a time.
3. Place one fanatic down, nominate direction and roll. Finish each fanatic before placing down the next.
Iíve been leaning towards option 2. But Iíve been having trouble finding the rule to verify this.
Measure how far a fanatic travels on release.
1. Do you place it down and then move it the random distance. Ė Meaning that the fanatic travels distance rolled + base size
2. Or do you measure distance and place fanatic that far away. Ė Distance rolled becomes the farthest point from releasing unit.
Savage unit is in combat, opponent delegates some attacks at the shaman and kills him. Do the savage orcs casualties, killed in the same turn and at the opponents same initiative, get to use increased ward save this turn? Iíve been wondering on the same thing when I fight pink horrors with herald.
Krysdagger - April 20, 2012 06:41 PM (GMT)
Oddly enough I do the following (which is slightly different).
If I have 3 fanatics in a unit I:
1) pick the point it is being launched from
2) mark the direction it is traveling (usually put putting it down more or less where I would like it to land).
3) roll the distance and put fanatic in final spot.
4) repeat for each fanatic.
There is the potential doing it this way that if you roll a 2 for the distance to fire the second one at the first to get it out of the way, but I have yet to do that ...
And, I measure from the unit ... so the distance rolled is the furtherst forward the base can be (you don't get an extra base diameter distance).
On the shaman, if the attacks are silmutanious, and the shaman dies, we have been playing it that everyone who would be taking the save at the same time gets the +1 ... my logic is that the shaman gets the +1 ... why would everyone else at the same time not... the save is taking place while he is still alive.
Biggrin - April 21, 2012 06:36 AM (GMT)
Not sure about the fanatics, but with the shaman I've had the same situation regularly and if everyone has the same iniative and strikes at the same time then you only make the change at the end of the combat, or that part of the combat where everyone is striking at the same time.
So yes you keep the save until that combat moves beyond the 'strikes at the same time' period.
Squigkikka - April 21, 2012 08:18 AM (GMT)
This is how I have interpreted it, and is probably the most balanced option:
1. Something comes within 8", fanatics trigger.
2. Show in what direction each fanatic will go (use markers or whatever).
3. Once the direction of all fanatics have been decided, roll them all out.
4. Move them one by one the distance they rolled.
Forchark - April 21, 2012 04:39 PM (GMT)
That is right Squigkikka. When measuring distance, it is always the same. If you measure from the front edge of the base, you end the measurement on the front edge of the base. You don't get that extra inch.
As for being able to shoot them from the back or elsewhere of the unit, this is possible. The rulebook states literally that you designate the point from which they leave the unit. This does not specify edges, and the makers of the game have stated that on other rules. the fact that they did not hear means that they are literal about you being able to say they leave from the middle of the unit, for example. That is just a clarifier. But yes, you do not put the fanatic down then say he leaves from that inch out. He leaves from within the unit.
As for the shrunken head, since he is technically alive during the attacks, yes they get the ward save for the shrunken head. And you are right to rely on initiative.
I hate giving not so luscious answers but you are on the right track :P
Forchark - April 21, 2012 05:00 PM (GMT)
In fact...thinking about it, they don't technically run through the unit once they leave it. If they are leaving the designated spot at the front edge of the unit, they are still leaving from within, similarly to leaving from the back. They were not once outside the unit. Therefore, maybe if you have them leave from near the back of the unit, they never require that unit to take the 1d6 hits!
I'm going to read the rules and compare. If this is the case, I won't update. But this looks right.
The leaving fanatics will never cause the unit they are leaving to cause 1d6 hits!
Confirmed the langauge:
It states "When a Fanatic is release, you may choose the direction in which it travels, and the point on the concealing unit from which it starts." going on to explain it moves 2d6inches.
Looks like you can designate it starts from the back, moves through, but stince it originates from the unit, it does not take those 1d6 hits i told you about in the other forum concerning NGs. So even better! Man i love my night goblins.
Warbringa - April 21, 2012 09:08 PM (GMT)
I've come to understand the wording as, once the fanatic is released, you choose the direction in which it travels.
The meaning needs to be looked at the word "released". I haven't considered the Fanatic "released" until it's out of the unit. So if an enemy comes within 8" of the unit, the Fanatic is released, or positioned Outside the unit ( anywhere of your choosing) and then goes the distance rolled.
So instead of measuring from the unit, you're measuring from where the Fanatic is placed in base contact of the unit, aka where he is released from. When he's "in" the unit, he's still "in" the unit. When he is out of the unit he is then considered "released" and then goes about his way.
Let me know what you think.
Forchark - April 21, 2012 11:27 PM (GMT)
I see what you are saying, but then they would say he starts on the edge, designated by the player. A unit is comprised of the ranks, command, and the tag-a-long single characters who either join in a rank or along the left or right flank because of awkward base size.
For example, the same rule writers had written in 40k that retreat is to your own table edge, one of many examples where they show they will tell you edge when they mean that. They have also stated "placing the template where" the player wishes for it to land (referring to templates from warmachines and the like). Again, proof they have the ability to state that if they wanted the fanatic down first, they would say to "place it anywhere outside the unit, in base contact with a model of the unit," then direct the player to declare direction and roll for distance.
Lastly, it states to designate where it starts anywhere "on the concealing unit..." They have countless times used language similar to "touching the unit," so they must mean anywhere within.
Not at all an attack :) . Just a good discussion.
Warbringa - April 22, 2012 02:41 AM (GMT)
Yes, a good discussion. You may very well be right. I would like to certainly keep searching to be sure. While we may think that is the way the wording is meaning for things to play out and believe it is the right way to play out, it would help to find out for sure. Sadly no Gameswork Shops around my area for me to interrogate a sales clerk. lol
Forchark - April 22, 2012 03:56 PM (GMT)
I'll do it today =). But I'm so certain because reading further, it is basically saying that when it is going through a unit to do damage, it is its own unit. Secondly, it says that once the release is complete, it is its own unit. Well I'll see and report back :D
I was better able to illustrate the question emailed to GW themselves. The brits may have a good idea as to their own words :P I'll get back to here 3ish days.
X'Nork - April 22, 2012 07:15 PM (GMT)
Thanks everyone for your help.