Title: Night Gobbos
Ged - March 17, 2009 01:23 PM (GMT)
Its been a while since I've been on here and I'm going to get back into all things warhammer very soon. I just wanted some advise on Night Gobbos, basically how do you use them?
Previously I've used fairly big blocks 35-40 with full command and 3 fanatics in each. I have heard a lot of people say that there is no point in givivng them a command etc but I like the models.
I also tend to go squig mad (hoppers and squig units). Anyone got any ideas for a 2000pts army?
Barney - March 17, 2009 03:50 PM (GMT)
well, if youŽre gonna use them as a real fighting unit, not just bait, I suggest 35 for one block, plus nets. Those netters, while a bit on thepricey side,are very valuable. Grotz can never win in a fair fight, luckily we donŽt have to fight fair :yarr!:
Fanatics are more of a personal prefference, I donŽt go with more than two, but I play a mixed horde.
Squigs are great, though they both fullfill different roles, so bear that in mind when constructing an army list.
Asfor the lists, feel free to look around the Army list section, IŽm sure youŽll find some inspiration there ;)
And welcome back!
Waaaaghmonger - March 17, 2009 10:05 PM (GMT)
Basically there are two ways to play them: as an infantry block that you hope to win combat with or as a diversionary/disposable/fanatic delivery unit. A third use could be as a missile unit, but the minimum unit stength of 20 plus shortbows limits their usefulness as a purely missile unit.
I don't run NG's as combat units. I play a mixed horde and prefer orcs for that. A block of 36 armed with hand weapon and shield, at least a banner and musician (a boss if you plan on putting any characters in the unit, if not he's kind of a waste), and netters makes them decent. You can depend on outnumbering opponents, will keep your rank bonus a long time unless flanked, and the nets (if they work) plus the armor save gives them some holding power. They won't score many wounds though, so you'll need to back them up with some sort of hammer unit or plan on throwing a fighting character in with them. Their leadership is horrible on their own so they will need baby-sitting pretty much all the time.
As a diversionary/disposable unit, I think that a minimum sized unit (or 21 for a little panic insurance) armed with shortbows and a musician is the way to go. A standard is simply more than doubling the amount of victory points you give your opponent when he wipes them out. Shortbows are good because it gives you the option of expanding their frontage and using them as missile troops if a juicy target appears, and they can all fire at large targets or units on a hill.
Fanatics are of debatable use. Last edition they rocked because they ignored armor saves. This edition they are not as good. I'll run one in a unit for no other reason than the chance at hitting an opponents flyers or fast cav march blockers. Or send one across the front of my force during my turn so that anyone who charges my line will have to stop on them and take 2D6 hits. They're not as compulsary as they used to be.
Hope that helps.
Ged - March 18, 2009 08:03 AM (GMT)
Cool, thanks for the advice guys. I'll get an army list up soon for analysis (picking apart) and see how it goes.
Groznit Goregut - March 18, 2009 12:42 PM (GMT)
Everyone got it covered. You either have small units that are disposable or larger units that should actually win combat. There are debates about using spears or hw + shield. Either is good. I've seen people go 6 wide with spears and have some fun with it.
It is important to recall that a unit of archers can all fire at large targets or units on a hill. If you are going to use a throw away unit, make it archers. Short bows have a really short range, but you just might get the chance to dump 20 arrows on a character on monstrous steed. Causing just a single wound is considered victory.
Most people say that 2 fanatics is the way to go, if you are going to use fanatics. Then again, having some fake ones out there can help cause confusion.
Grupas - March 18, 2009 01:08 PM (GMT)
just to be annoying:
I actually use a block of 25 with nets and standard. they tend do win a few combats, or hold out for some round. while not being worth to shoot at they tend to keep their ranks 'till they reach combat, (and then act as passtrough for the fanatic consealed in my 21 archers. :P) anyways it's also fun too see how people go through all lenghts to trigger fanatics and then realise there are none :P
Ged - March 18, 2009 01:12 PM (GMT)
I like the shooting idea, one wound definately counts as victory in my book - they are gobbos after all.
As I'm going to do a fun all night goblin (almost) list I'll definately put some big combat units in there. I'll aslo probably go magic heavy at 2000pts and may include a giant.
I'll probably do a mixed horde as well later on, in this one I'll think of using the night goblins as a more tactical unit as you've suggested.
Viper - March 28, 2009 05:12 PM (GMT)
It is always nice to have some big blocks backed up by smaller units to try and get flanks. As the saying goes quantity has a quality all its own and if you get flank and rear charges even against some of the harder units you've got things in your favour.
A good situation for a goblin to be in.
At the moment I've got a mixed army with small Ng units with nets as flankers for my Orc units, replacing the Orcs with large Ng units wouldn't make a massive change to my tactics.
Snitchy Fizzbang - March 28, 2009 09:03 PM (GMT)
I'm really pleased you started this discussion, i've been thinking of taking an all NG army just for a change. 3,000 points with Skarnisk as general
I'll probably be facing against Dwarfs, and take 2 rock robbers, 6 spear chukkas and 3 doom divers as my special and rare choices.
I was going to take 21 fanatics, but i know he'll pop his miners up behind me. After reading your advice i might adjust my list :yarr!:
Groznit Goregut - March 29, 2009 01:14 PM (GMT)
I was giving Uglik some advice on all Night Goblin armies. There are some inherent weaknesses in these types of armies that you will need to watch out for. The first one is the lack of war machines. They are one of the few ways to deal with large monsters. This includes (but is not limited to) Hydras, Steam tanks, Giants, Dragons, Manticores, Pegasi, and Stagadons. What a lot of people do to get around this is just replace the regular goblin crew with night goblins. Gamezone, an independent company that some really fantastic minis, does a spear chukka crewed with night goblins. It's a fantastic model and I'm thinking of getting it even though I already have 4 spear chukkas.
There are other things that you would be missing in a night goblin army that wouldn't be hard to just replace with night goblins. A lot of people have glued night goblins on spider riders to get fast cavalry. Also, people use the wolf rider legs from the common goblin sprue (where there are usually a lot left over - so ask a friend for spare bits) and put them on night goblins to make wolf riders. It worked better with the older night goblins who did come in 2 parts, but you can easily clip the bottom half of the new night goblins. This way, you can get night goblin wolf riders (just use rules for regular wolf riders). You can even do this for chariots. Just stick night goblins on the wolf chariot. I've even seen some people take off the wolves and use squigs instead of wolves. It can look very cool. These changes will bring some added versatility to your armies and still keep the night goblin cohesion.
Here is a picture from Goomb's Dust Devil army:
The reason to make these changes is that night goblins can sometimes lack punch. Squigs are always needed in a night goblin army, but often, you will find you will need giants and/or trolls to add to it. Magic is good, but often unreliable. Trolls can be good, but night goblins have the worst leadership in the list, so that makes them even harder. Giants are good for taking out big things as they get the other chart. There are a lot of great results with that chart. My wood elf friend was shocked and awed when I smashed his treeman to splinters with one hit. Giants are easy targets for enemy fire, though.
One thing that good armies have are bait units or sacrificial units. Normally, orcs use goblins. Goblins, in their turn, use snotlings. So, snotling bases are great to use. They can be used as bait and redirect. They can be thrown at the enemy to slow them down. You can use them to stop units that are trying to get your fanatics out. You can throw your fanatics through snotlings and not care.
Snotling pump wagons are also great to use. For one, they can do a lot of damage, but I've always found the best thing for these guys is distraction. They are only 40pts, but I always play up how they can do 2d6 damage. It's only S4 hits, so don't tell them that, but they can put the fear into the enemy. I've seen cannon shots get sent at these suckers and I love it. If they are firing at the pump wagons, they aren't shooting at other units. Any spell, war machine, or archer shots sent at them are well worth it. I've also rarely had them get into combat. Do you know how many times I've been only 6" away and still missed? Still, these guys can do some damage. They are slow and more of a 2nd wave attacker. They are also great war machine protectors and good for getting rid of dwarf miners and other flankers that pop up. They are all Immune to Psychology, too. They charge in 360 degrees and lots of people forget that. I bet if you put four snotling pump wagons on a flank, you could control that flank. That, though, would take up all your rare slots. If you are on a budget, though, you can make snotling pump wagons from a lot of easily found material.
Roba-Fett - March 31, 2009 11:19 PM (GMT)
I've been in a prolonged campaign with NG's only against Dwarfs for quite a while now. It's all about that CR man. We come into each combat with +5 CR and nets really help your chances of making them keep taking the test (even if you're not killing him and he's killing you - always funny).
Squigs are essential.
Trolls are terrible! They will spend nearly the whole game stupid. The only way they will be useful is if they are screening you and even then they'll hold you up with their measly stupidty move.
Giants are...well, nice actually, if the game affords it.
Don't forget to be sneaky like a Gobbo should and accept challenges on your terms. Give it to your unit champ rather than sacrifice your general perhaps.
Green Goblin - April 1, 2009 02:56 PM (GMT)
@Groznit: that one is actually from my models and damn it looks bad on the pic, he now looks much better.
I use for my night goblin fighting units maximum 30 models, I find that they otherwise gets to expensive( but that is a personal taste). Otherwise I can't add much to the discussion cause everything is already said.
Ged - April 2, 2009 12:20 PM (GMT)
I always forget my pump wagon, but since in this edition of the army book its a 2 for 1 rare slot I'm always put off cause I only have one and it seems a waste. I must get a second pump wagon, the one I have is a mid 80s retro one.
Anyone use units of common goblins? I can't really see much reason for doing this myself.
Groznit Goregut - April 3, 2009 02:14 PM (GMT)
You can still make 'ard Grotz (gobbos w/ armor, shield, and hand weapon for an AS 4+), but they are now 4pts each instead of 3pts. Yes, that is expensive, but they can hold a lot better than night goblins. Their leadership is higher, too. So, they have a better chance of holding out in a big combat.
I know KevinC did an All Common Goblin army and won the Colonial GT. He had units that were 25 goblins w/ armor, shields, and bows. They were 5 pts each, but pretty versatile. KevinC said he liked the bows as he never knew what was going to happen and having lots of options was always big to win a tournament.