Title: Help Vs Deamons
Description: kinda need some assistance
Grupas - March 9, 2009 10:50 AM (GMT)
anyone has any ideas how to combat the folowing list in 1900points??
2x20 pink horrors with standard (3d6 str3 to unit in btb) (lvl2, 5+ward)
3x5 flesh hounds (mr3, 5+ward, 16inch charge range-- 2wounds each)
6 flamers (d6str4 shots each-- 2wounds each)
2x tzeetch herald on screamer chariot with irridisent aura (4+ward save)
1x khorne herald on bloodcrusher with reroll to wound and +1str
he's got 10pd, 7dd.
played him with high elves, bolt throwers did 1 wound..., kept bouncing of the horror blocks and flesh hounds due to his f' wardsaves, and my msu got torched becouse of his chariots. ...
dragon princes charged with 8 on 5 hounds and got pushed back and overrun. :s
(i'm sure i'll kill him with o&g though :yarr!: )
Fikkle.da.Night.Goblin. - March 9, 2009 12:28 PM (GMT)
theirs a really useful tactica in the armys specific section, Im using it as the basis for my anti Daemon list...
which I can post if u like?
Mysticaria - March 9, 2009 07:42 PM (GMT)
Wow, that's pretty much all the stuff that people hate about Daemons. 3 units of flesh hounds? The only think I can say is, at least you aren't facing a Greater Deamon right? There is standard stuff you can so, like take high leadership, take lots of anti-magic, take lots of ITP stuff, etc.. and then there is some specific stuff for his list.
1- Wyvern would do well. Terror means you'll get to charge without a leaderhsip check, and he doesn't have any artillery or magic that can really shoot you off the thing. I'd stay more than 18" away from the flamers and out of charge LOS of the Flesh hounds until you start taking him out. With 20" movement and a large number of O&G units to deploy, this should be easy enough. If you get onto the flank you should be able to win combats by enough to disintegrate those Deamons pretty quick.
2- Definately consider a Goblin of some sort (wolf or chariot) with OHW and Tricksies Trinket. If you start near enough to the general, you should pass your leadership to charge and you'll be able to take out a chariot or a herald quickly.
3- The Pink horrors you can handle with any infantry block. Just get into combat. His 3d6 spell only goes off on his turn and it's a bound item with power level 3. If you can't save one dispell dice for that then something went wrong. Especially if you took out one or more of the heralds on chariots by then. Also, since it's in magic phase, you are in combat so I don't even think you take panic checks. You should just continue to beat him up till he's dead even if this goes off once or twice.
4- Gonna have to take as much anti-magic as possible. If you get the Spirit Totem and that's 5 dispell dice to start. Mix in another shaman with either sneaky stealin or a couple dispell scrolls and you should be able to stop some of the scary stuff until you start killing off his wizards.
5- Not much you can do about the flesh hounds but try to draw them out of position. They can't flee from a charge, so sacrifice a unit or two to get them facing sideways and charge them with a block of infantry. If you get them into combat with 3 ranks, banner, outnumber, and maybe a flank... they have to do 6-7 wounds to win combat. If they only do 5, they start taking instability tests and that's assuming you don't manage to tag a wound or two on there. Savage Orc Boar Boys should be a good match for these guys too.
In short... he only really has a couple tough nuts to crack in his list and Orcs have the tools to do it. Go show him the power of the Waagh and let us know how it goes.
Mysticaria - March 9, 2009 07:43 PM (GMT)
Ahh, just realized this was at 1900...
No lord? No Wyvern?
That's a pretty big disadvantage for you and a big advantage for him.
Oh well, take as much leadership as possible and ITP stuff. All my other comments still apply.
TigToad - March 10, 2009 06:40 AM (GMT)
well, if I was playing this with high elves, I'm maximize my archers and bolt throwers then use MSU or swordmasters and the like. Target the chariots first with the missles, then the horrors.
With orcs... well... Uh...
Try savage orc boar boyz to put some wounds on those blocks... you only need to kill 125 points worth per unit.. to try to wear some of that annoyingly strong stuff down. I'd probably take a giant and bolt throwers.. for core I'd go with 2 choppa boyz and diverters for his chariots.
Good luck.. the only one of my 4 armies I've been able to beat Daemons with more than 50% of the time is my dark elves. Khemri, Orcs and Ogres all struggle.
Grupas - March 10, 2009 07:48 AM (GMT)
@bigtoad: that was kinda what i did :s ; didn't now his list and i went kinda fun list. had chariot, some dragon princes, big block of spearmen with immune to fear, 2lvl2 mages extra pd, banner of sorcery, 10 archers, 9 shadow warriors, 5 shadow warriors, 2 bolt throwers, character with shadow armour, 5white lions with champ and armour of caledor
(definatly not the kill list, but still...)
(as the only terrain was impassible i couldn't us much scouting :P)
anyways, it was all the darn ward saves he took, not much you can do about that...even strategic charges with flank outnumbering and 7 to 12 wounds (that almost all got saved)-gues i'll have to start using battle banner, and war banner on dragon princes (talking about overkill...)
"in short... he only really has a couple tough nuts to crack" - i call them all tough nuts. (his horrors are covered by the advancing flesh hounds)
I did break one block of horrers in the last turn by charging in the flank with 10 archers, whom i gave a 5+ ward save, a coocky from the same cutter :yarr!:
Mysticaria - March 10, 2009 07:58 PM (GMT)
What ward saves are you talking about? All Daemons have 5+ ward save so it doesn't look like he "took" any extra ward saves. You have to remember that almost none of them have any armor so it really isn't much better than Orcs with shields (5+ AS) and the Daemons cost twice as much. It's not like he put heralds into the pink horrors to get 4+ ward save or gave a block of Plaguebearers a herald to have a 5+ ward save and 4+ regeneration on top of that. He just took a lot of really hard core units.
He took minimum core and the absolute maximum characters, flesh hounds and flamers. No effort to take anything that isn't considered to be the most powerful units. Not a very fun list in my opinion at all. But... you can still take his choices and play it against him.