Warriors of Chaos Overview and Tactics

These views are from my experience playing both with and against the new Warriors of Chaos list. I hope they help any players who need them. Sorry for any spelling mistakes and the wall of text...

Army Wide Rules

Will of the Gods - Replacing the Mark of Undivided allows the re-rolling of panic tests. Although seemingly minor, this ability will make panicking Chaos units much harder thus ensuring that more of them will reach enemy forces.

Eye of the Gods- This special rule effects Characters, Chosen, unit champions (if Warshrines are present) and trolls (if they regenerate 2 or more wounds) grants a random statistical or special rule bonuses based on a roll on a table. This rule forces Chaos characters for issue and accept challenges if they are able. If they kill enemy character in a challenge or a model with the large target special rule they gain a roll on the table. This means that you can potential lure enemy wizards into combat with your fighting characters but it also means that by sacrificing a unit champion to there already formidable character you run the risk of that character gaining a major statistical bonus.

Marks

Khorne – Received a bit of a toning down since 6th edition since it no longer generates extra dispel dice. Still conferring frenzy it enables you to bait and flee these dangerous combat troops.

Slaanesh – No longer conferring immune to psychology instead it now confers immune to fear, terror and panic which means unlike old 6th edition units these troops can flee as a charge reaction without having to worry about psychology.

Nurgle – Conferring -1 to hit from shooting and -1 WS in close combat the mark of Nurgle is the most expensive of the marks. Its value is comes largely from protected the high point cost units of warriors and knights from shooting while in combat the -1 WS will often force units of Orcs to hit warriors on 5.

Tzeentch – The mark of Tzeentch Confers a +1 to any units ward save or a +1 to cast on wizards. When placed on units it provides additional (annoying) protection to the already heavily armour warriors and knights while the +1 to cast on the wizards improves their casting ability on the high cost Lore of Tzeentch.

Lores of Magic – WOC sorcerers may use the lore of fire, death, shadow or heavens in addition to the Mark specific lores

Slaanesh – The lore with the lowest average casting cost of the three chaos available lores, the Lore of Slaanesh lacks the high strength spells of its 6th edition incarnation. Many of the spells have some sort of statistical component to them so if it can be passed there effect will be minimized. In addition several of the spells either prevent movement or forcing it in some fashion. If these spells are successful it can quickly unravel the best laid plans.

Nurgle – The Lore of Nurgle seem to be a middle of the road lore of the three choices. The lore lacks a low casting magic missile spell that can threaten units on the other hand the 6th spell Rot Glorious Rot does D6 S6 no armour save to all enemy units within 18”. Other spells allow the wounding of to single models, provide regeneration and killing models which successfully pass armour saves provide a wide range options for these magic users.

Tzeentch – One of the highest average casting values of any lore in the game the Lore of Tzeentch combines high damage potential with unit buffs and spells which penalize enemy units. The fearsome Infernal Gateway with the potential of destroying entire units (with characters inside them) with a single spell can effectively change the outcome of any game. The high casting cost of the lore is somewhat minimized out by the +1 to cast that all Tzeentch sorcerers benefit from.

Gifts and Magic Items

Gifts of Chaos – Each character may select a single Gift of Chaos from the list while Daemon Prince may select up to 100 points of these Gifts. These Gifts are in addition to magic items and may not be destroyed or neutralized like magic items can but each gift may only be selected once. Unfortunately most of the Gifts are high cost and relatively ineffective with only situational benefits and therefore are not often selected by WOC players.

Magic Items – With the removal of many of the Mark specific restrictions from the items it means that now you will be facing various mix matches of items and Marks. The items themselves are relatively expensive to take which means that the already costly characters will become more expensive if they take their full item allowance. The WOC list lacks items which provide blanket ward saves beyond a 6+. This means that if you can get beyond their heavily armour exterior you are likely to do a wound.

Special Characters

Archaon – Costing 170 points less than the 6th edition version. Archaon still features many of the same tricks as 6th edition and is still one of the most dangerous characters in the game.

Galrauch - Having lost Spell Destroyer and Tzeentch Will, Galrauch is more or less the same as 6th edition version and the 80 point decrease is more or less the cost of the abilities that have been removed.

Prince Sigvald – The Slaanesh lord special character, although he suffer stupidity he confers the ability to always march and treating all terrain as open ground for units he joins. He also comes with a 1+ Armour save, regeneration, +2 attacks and always strikes first.

Valkia the Bloody – The Khorne Lord special character, Valkia reduces the number attacks and strength by enemies in base contact to a (minimum of 1) as well as conferring re-rolls of break tests with 12” and allowing the entire army to re-roll the eye of the gods table. In addition she has a 3+ armour save and gains +2 strength and killing blow on the charge plus armour piercing attacks.

Wulfrik the Wanderer – Wulfrik is a unique character which is able to enter the table on any table edge along with a unit of Marauders. Wulfrik is probably one of the softest special characters since he does not come with any stat boasting magic items but he can force enemy characters to accept challenges as well as nominating a enemy character he gains +2 Strength and re-rolls all rolls to hit. This makes Wulfrik good at entering a board edge and hunting a single enemy character.

Kholek Suneater – A improved Dragon Ogre Shaggoth, Kholek comes with a weapon that does D3 wounds and heavy armour which lowers his Armour Save to 1+. His other ability to absorb lightning spells within 12” has little benefit against Orc and Goblins.

Scyla Anfingrimm – A chaos spawn of Khorne which features a 6+ ward save and MR (3) as well as additional movement and attacks costing 5 points less than double of a standard spawn. Although Scyla is a special character it is not the most practical to field considering it takes a valuable rare choice.

Vilitch The Curseling – Vilitch is a Sorcerer lord of Tzeentch who knows all of the spells in the Lore of Tzeentch. The primary danger with Vilitch comes from his ability to harness the dice from failed casting or dispelling attempts and turn them into power or dispel dice for use later in that phase. This means that a bad turn at dispelling can prolong the chaos players magic phase.

Festus the Leachlord – Hero level caster working with the lore of Nurgle Festus confers a 5+ regeneration and poison attacks on to any unit he joins. Festus and any unit only pursue 1D6 but if they catch the unit it is worth double victory points.

Throgg the Troll King – A troll hero who features improved stats over a standard troll. The big bonus comes from making Chaos Trolls a core choice as well as allowing all monsters (Trolls, Ogres, Dragon Ogres and Warhounds) may us his leadership as if he was the general and re-roll break tests within 12”

Lords

Chaos Lord – The big bad Chaos Lords have changed little from their previous incarnation with the loss of only 1 point of Imitative and the same overall point cost. The main change has come in the fact that much of their mundane equipment had gone up in cost and the fact that all demonic mounts are now considered mounts and not monstrous mounts which mean they can no longer be targeted in a challenge or which they must issue. Still dangerous in close combat with many powerful magic item combos to increase his abilities the Chaos lord can potentially grow even more deadly as the game progresses if he successfully wins challenges. The lord has the options to ride either a Chaos Dragon or Manticore which can provide a big boost to the characters and armies mobility.

Daemon Prince – One of the more controversial character selections in the WOC lists the Daemon Prince has lost his unbreakable rule and is no longer immune to psychology which means he must take panic tests from nearby fleeing units.. That being said the Daemon Prince has the ability to fly and can become a caster which give the WOC list some much needed mobility and multi-purpose capabilities. Weighing in at up to 550 points this guy can be a major game changer or an expensive point sink.

Chaos Sorcerer Lord – The lord level cast who features 3 attacks at WS 5 and chaos armour the Sorcerer Lords have the ability to hold their own in combat. This fighting ability is coupled with him being forced to issue and accept challenges (due to Eye of the Gods) means that if you can get a fighting character into combat with him you can force him to do battle and possibly kill him off.

Heroes

Exalted Heroes – Costing 10 points more than their previous incarnation and with the removal of the Aspiring Champion selection the Exalted Hero is now the BSB selection for the WOC army. Featuring an impressive stat-line the Exalted Heroes can handle almost and hero level character as well as some lord level ones as well. As with the lords the Eye of the Gods table can make these characters even more dangerous as the game goes on.

Chaos Sorcerers – in essence a Chaos Warrior who can cast magic the chaos sorcerer suffers from Eye of the Gods which means that this character can be dragged into a challenge against a superior fighting character. Since the Sorcerer is the cheapest of the character selections they are often included and then given some minor fighting abilities to ensure their survival while providing some minor magical defence.

Mounts

Chaos Dragon – Costing the same as the old version and still taking up an additional hero slot the Chaos Dragon offers an expensive but tough mounting options for Chaos Lords or Exalted Sorcerers. The dragons principle strength comes from the added mobility which can allow the character to deal with castled war machines at the risk of moving your general out of leadership range of much of the army.

Manticore – Costing 160 points less than the Chaos Dragon and granting the same much needed mobility is a viable mount for a Chaos Lords. There is the issue of the Uncontrollable rule which could force you to make an unwanted charge if you fail a leadership test.

Daemonic Mounts – Unlike the previous version of all of the daemonic mounts have had their wounds reduced to 1 so they count as traditional mounts instead of monstrous mounts and contribute the standard 6+ to armour save. Daemonic mounts are probably the most well rounded of all the mounts but is ties as the most expensive of the mounts (with the exception of Dragons and Manticores)

Steed of Slaanesh – The Steeds of Slannesh are the second weakest statically of the available mounts but with Movement 10 and as Fast Cavalry the steeds provide much needed mobility to characters with this Mark.

Disc of Tzeentch - The only non-large target flyer the Disc of Tzeentch is the weakest statistically. Since provides much needed flying when placed on a cheap hero it give him the ability to go and hunt the enemy warmachines.

Juggernaut of Khorne – Juggernauts are the hardest of the mounts with 2 Strength 5 attacks and conferring a +3 to amour saves. In addition the Juggernaut confers MR 1 to the rider and his unit which adds much need magical protection.

Palanquin = The Palanquins are the slowest available mount but it is probably the most effective as tar pit in the center of the infantry unit. Adding 6 Strength 3 Poison attacks the Palanquin makes this character a dangerous opponent in challenges.

Chaos Steed - A standard Chaos steed is a cheap and effective way to increase the mobility and armour save of any Chaos character while keeping the point cost low on the already expensive characters

Chariots – Displacing one of the crew a Chaos chariot fielded as a characters mount does not fill a much needed special slot while still allowing the dangerous war machine to played. The character in the chariot is restricted to the same Mark as the chariot itself.

Core

Chaos Warriors – Statistically comparable to the Chosen Chaos Warriors from the Hordes of Chaos book with a starting cost being 5 points less than the old Chosen these guys make a rock hard but expensive core choice. Chaos Warriors if fielded are most often fielded in smaller units due to their high cost and the ability of chaos players to use the cheaper Marauders to fill out the ranks of their army. In addition some chaos players tend to skip the Chaos warriors in favour of the more expensive Chosen which for a few more points per model offer greater hitting power.

Marauders – Starting off 1 point less than their old incarnation Marauders may now select marks. Although it is not common to see them marked they do have The Will of Chaos special rule making them far more stable units in comparison to their old version. Generally if the chaos player is looking to fill out the ranks of their army it will come from these guys.

Chaos Warhounds – in essence the same unit as the old book but now they have The Will of Chaos special rule as well as the ability to upgrade a 6+ armour save or poison attack which no one would ever take. Although they still do not count as core they fulfill the role of a mobile screeners for the knights and warriors at a relatively low cost.

Marauder Horsemen – Costing the same as the horsemen in the Hordes of Chaos book these guys fulfill the role as mobile harassers within the Chaos list. Often assigned to try and deal with enemy artillery or to carry out a flanking role their new role of Horse Lords allows them to re-roll their pursuit roles when chasing down fleeing enemies.

Special

Chosen – Costing 4 points more than standard Chaos Warrior but they are required to select a weapon upgrade which will raise their point cost. Chosen only need to be fielded in units of 5 which help keep their unit point cost down while this champion may select a magic item costing up to 25 points. Finally the ability of Chosen to role on the Eye of the Gods table without having to worry about not receiving a good statistical or rule bonus means that these already fearsome warrior will become all the more dangerous.

Forsaken – A new unit, representing blood crazed mutated chaos warriors the Forsaken are movement 6 which gives them a measure of mobility that many of the other units in the WOC list do not have. Unfortunately, they suffer from frenzy and their random number of attacks makes them somewhat unreliable. They can be easily baited and due to their high movement they can be quickly be neutralized as a major threat. All of these factors combine with the same starting point cost as Chosen means that they are rarely seen on the table top.

Chariots- Costing the same as their previous version the new Chaos Chariots now have 2 attack from each warrior giving it even more added power. As mentioned before chariots with a character present do not take up a special slot which means that it can be an effective way to for Chaos players to get an extra special unit onto the field. The presents of Marks on chariots are generally minimal in an attempt to keep their point costs low and to save points for other special or rare units.

Chaos Orges – Costing the same as the version in the Beast of Chaos book the Chaos Ogres now feature Heavy Armour as standard equipment with the option of upgrading to Chaos Armour and receiving marks of their own. Ogres offer a somewhat reliable (with only leadership 7) and mobile hitting force to Chaos players. Ogres are the only monstrous unit in the list able to select a full command.

Chaos Trolls – Coming in at 5 point more than the starting Troll cost in the Orc and Goblin book the Chaos Trolls feature many of the same issues that O&G ones do as well. Their low leadership and stupidity can make these dangerous beasts unreliable and because of this they are less common to be seen on the table top. On difference between Chaos Trolls and O&G ones is that if the Chaos Trolls successfully regenerate 2 or more wounds in a single phase they gain a roll on the Eye of the Gods table which can potentially make them even more dangerous.

Dragon Ogres – Costing 5 points cheaper than the Beast version of this unit the Dragon Ogres offer high speed hitting power with the highest leadership of the special Chaos monstrous selections. Their movement 7 combined with great weapons making them Strength 7 can turn a small unit of Dragon Ogres into a game changing force.

Chaos Knights – Arguably some of the best knights in the game Chaos Knights now start off 5 points less than their previous Chosen versions. With causing fear as a standard ability and the choices between 2 Strength 5 magical attacks with their magic weapons or 2 Strength 6 (subsequent Strength 4) attacks with lances (for 5 addition points) the knights are truly a force to be reckoned with on the battlefield. If fielded with a mark they are most commonly seen with either the Marks of Nurgle or Tzeentch in an attempt to improve their survivability against the inevitable shooting that they will attract.

Rare

{b]Chaos Warshine[/b] – The Chaos Warshine is an new and unique unit added to the Warriors of Chaos Armylist. With Toughness 6 and 4+ armour and ward save the Warshine shielding its 4 wounds the Warshine is capable of absorbing a large amount of punishment before being destroyed. The Giver of Glory special rule expands the Eye of the Gods to all unit champions as well as allowing the shrine to act as a buffer in the shooting phase where it provides a single friendly unit with a roll on the Eye of the Gods table for the turn. In the following shooting phase the Chaos player may choose to leave the benefit or roll again on the table. Generally the Warshine if marked is given the cheaper mark of Tzeentch in a n attempt to increase its protection

Chaos Giant – Statistically the same as the O&G giant the Chaos giant costs 20 points more and feature 3 differences. First, the giant comes with immune to psychology which prevents it from fleeing while insuring it does not panic from fleeing chaos troops. Second the giant features a list of slightly altered special attacks. The different attack comes into play when facing larger opponents where the roll of a 5 or 6 the giant takes a bit out of his opponent causing D3 wounds with no armour save which the giant regenerates if it has already been wounded. The finally difference is the ability of the giant to select Marks. The Marks of Khorne and Slaanesh are slightly altered from the standard selection and they confer Strength 7 and Always Strike First respectively

Chaos Spawn – Receiving a 5 point discount from its previous incarnation and remaining a 2 for 1 selection the only changes to Chaos Spawns have been in the effect which Marks have on it. All of the Marks with the exception of Khorne have changed from their previous versions and in many Chaos players opinion these changes have been for t he worse. Nurgle and Tzeentch are the same as the principle Marks in the armybook, while Slaanesh now confers Always Strike First and Khorne increase the Spawns strength by +1.

Dragon Ogre Shaggoth – Costing 40 points more than a standard Chaos Giant the Dragon Ogre Shaggoth is a expensive and somewhat unpopular Rare selection. Although more reliable in combat with a higher strength and armour save then a Chaos Giant the Shaggoth lower leadership and higher point cost renders the Shaggoth redundant with a Giant often able to do the same job for a lower point cost

Hellcannon – The only shooting in the Warrior army (if you exclude throwing axes and javelins) the Hellcannon offers some much needed fire support for the Warriors of Chaos armylist. Costing the same amount as the O&G giant the Hellcannon’s fires a Strength 5 (10 under the hole in the template) attack with a -1 leadership panic test for those units hit. The principle drawback (besides the high price) is the Rampage rule which causes the cannon to move 3D6” towards the nearest enemy unit if they fail a leadership test at the start of the turn.

Fighting Warrors of Chaos

Currently there are two popular competitive builds of Warriors of Chaos. The first is a cavalry heavy list while the second is a Warshrine centered infantry lists. Both of these lists feature specific challenges. The cavalry list as the name describes is largely built for speed and hitting power and is design to close the gap between the opposing forces as fast as possible in order to attempt to break through the enemy and minimize the effect that shooting and damaging magic can have on the expensive Chaos units. The Warshrine centered army is as it sounds an army centered around a Warshine (or two) with the idea being the Shrine can hopefully provide a timely boast to a unit when it is most needed. The list itself usually feature blocks of Marauders with smaller units of Warriors or Chosen to act as hammer to break the enemy. Cavalry is included but it tends to be more of a traditional role of flanking and support rather than trying to break through then enemy as in the Cavalry list.

What’s an Orc to do?

Combat on your terms – Every WOC units can at least match O&G units in combat. Even Black Orcs and Orc Big’uns can be tied up relatively well by the cheaper Marauders. You must enter combat on your terms. Since almost every WOC unit is statistically superior then O&G units therefore you must try and get the charge and kill off a model or two before they get a chance to strike back.

Numbers – When playing WOC with O&G you need to press your numerical advantage as best you can. If you are not outnumbering WOC army by at least 2 to 1 you are probably doing something wrong. You will not out elite a WOC list so you have to press you numbers advantage. You want to field as many units as possible and try and overwhelm the WOC units by flanking and relying on static combat resolution to break their units.

Artillery – WOC have issues with dealing with artillery. Beside for the Hellcannon and the few flying mounts that are available for characters there is no way for WOC to reach your artillery without breaking through your battle line. This means that in an army without these selections can face major challenges to reaching your war machines. Therefore you should try and castle up your artillery behind your battle line and target the units which are threatening to them first before moving on to the blocks of the WOC troops.

Know your Marks – Knowing which Marks are where is an important part of fighting WOC. With the removal on Mark restrictions and many of the item restrictions based on Marks knowing which units carry which Marks is important as they each need to be each dealt with in a different manner. Khorne need to be diverted, Nurgle will make much of your shooting in effective and possibly cause you to hit on 5+ in close combat, Slaanesh is in essence Immune to Psychology so they won’t run away, and Tzeentch have ward saves so they are more survivable. Depending on which Marks are where you can effectively target your shooting, magic and charges for maximum effect.

What to take and what not too....

Goblins & Night Goblins – Night Goblins are a wonderful threat unit to place on the table. The mere threat of 3 fanatics emerging from a unit of Night Goblins will most likely cause the Chaos player to pause or at least send one of his diversion units to try and draw out the fanatic threat. This can be used to secure a flank or threaten their high cost units. Even if not present the danger of fanatics emerging from a unit can be enough to force a WOC player to alter their plans.
Standard Goblins on the other hand are not worth considering. The additional armour save from the light armour option will only provide marginal benifits against the already high strength attacks and as mentioned before every unit of standard Goblins fielded is 1 unit that could have potentially held fanatics if they were Night Goblins.

Shooty Stuff – Although Orc and Goblin shooting is not that reliable the effectiveness of its war machines can be substantial. As mentioned before WOC have difficulty dealing with castled war machined which are place behind the main battle due to lack of flyers. This means that your high strength and armour save reducing war machines can effectively have free rain targeting Chaos units for at least 2 turns before they reach combat before they reach combat with your battle line and threaten to break through to the war machines themselves.

On the flip side the arrow shooting of Arrer boyz, Goblins, Night Goblins, Wolf and Spider Rider are probably best to be avoided. The effectiveness of these units (which is marginal under good circumstances) will be reduced by the various Marks; high armour saves and the relative short range of the shooting. Although a small unit of Arrer Boyz or Night Goblins to defend the war machine and in the latter’s case threaten to release fanatics can be effective the amount of damage that will be done through the shooting will be negligible and the points could probably be better spend elsewhere.

Trolls and Giants = These big boyz are some of the few units which have the speed and hitting power to effectively combat WOC units. Although there are some intangibles such as random attacks and stupidity that need to be overcome these 2 units are probably the best chance that Orc and Goblins have at breaking WOC units directly through force of arms.

Big uns and Black Orcs – The elite of the Orc and Goblin army are completely outclassed by almost all of the units in the WOC list. That being said they do serve a purpose in fighting WOC. Although traditionally used to attempt to smash open the opposing players battle line these troops will have trouble dealing with the high strength, high armour that WOC field against them. Unless you are in a position to charge with additional support of other units these elites should be held in reserve to act as a counter-charging threat in the hope of catching a unit out of position and gaining a flank or supporting a large unit which has held against an initial charge.

Speedy Boyz – One of the best ways of minimizing the statistical advantages of WOC units is to get the charge off before they do. Considering their infantry is M4 and their heavy cavalry are restricted to M7 due to barding Orc and Goblin chariots and Boar Boyz can effectively get charges off against most WOC units before being charged yourself.

The fast cavalry units of Spider and Wolf riders fulfil their standard role of threatening flanks and harassing fast cav. One edge is that the ability of Wolf Riders to charge 18” gives them a significant range advantage over the WOC cav. Although probably in capable pf winning combat on their own they may be able to get the WOC to purse into unwanted positions by baiting and fleeing.

Good insights mate. I haven't played the new chaos myself yet, but I am sure this will help.

:yarr!:

RoV

Great write up. It will prove useful when I come up against the new chaos. Which will be soon as one of my opponents has started to collect them.

Great work, Fauthsie. This was a very good read, and I will save this to my little file.

Not too bad on the spelling errors and whatnot, no matter what your disclaimer says. It is a lot to proof, but if you want a set of eyes on it and someone to do some revisions, let me know.

Goomb

Glad you liked it guys....if you want to edit it Goomb by all means go ahead....:P

Good post, a nice overview. It would be good to see different peoples thoughts on overcoming WoC later this year as we begin to see more of them played. I myself haven't played against them yet, but probably will in the next couple of weeks at a tourny. My thoughts then...

Great read there, fauthsie :)

My (2c) on fighting the new chaos guys:

Watch out for the heroes of khorne on juggernaughts. Those things have 4 attacks from the rider, 3 more from the jugger, add the frenzy mark, and he has 0+ save and MR(1) to boot. That guy can tear apart whole ranked units. Redirect this freak at all costs, or hit him from distance.

Also, watch out for the Glaive of Putrefaction. This little weapon reduces the S and T of a wounded model to 2 for the rest of the game, so he´ll just turn your warboss into a snotling. As we don´t really have good armor saves or ward saves, this can be quite a pain to deal with. My advice is to get him in combat with basic RnF,where it doesn´t matter. Hitting it with a flying goblin does the job just as well :D

Marauder horsemen can be a pain too, especially if marked by khorne and armed with flails. I don´t have much thoughts about countering theese guys except for redirecting or shooting them.

Also, a note on Mark of Slaanesh: Be wary that it now bestows immunitiy to panic, fear and terror- in other words, they negate the fear and terror, but can still flee. Think of it when a slaaneshi marauder unit tries to lure you into a trap!

Everything other I wanted to say was covered in the original post and I don´t think it needs repeating.


EDIT: As the WOC characters now have to issue and accept challenges, I´d say the suicidal goblin gets more usefull than before, with OHW and Brimstone Bauble. Just be sure to get him stuck in smartly- I prefer to stick him on a wolf for the superior movement and the ability to get a charge.
Be wary though, as every killd character(even the weedy grot) will make the chaos hero more powerfull thanks to the eye of the gods special rule.

something i've struggled with vs WoC is getting out deployed... yes, O&G out deployed by an elite army. o_O the 2 WoC players i know quickly changed their armies to be mainly mounted after realising how massively more powerful an all mounted list is compared to 'traditional' WoC. Now i rarely see a chaos warrior.

with 6 point warhounds, and maruader horsemen costing the same as wolfriders the WoC mounted list can easily bring 12+'units' to deploy (last time i played it was 16 units!). this means WoC are also probably the fastest army i've ever played against (slowest unit = m7, most units m8/flyers), alongside hitting like a freight train. with multiple sorcerors on discs (no combat characters needed, as the fighty troops are more than hard enough to get the job done on their own), they deal with any flanking/fast cavalry element in my army and go for warmachines (often in the same turn combining magic and bloodcurdling roar asnd a 360 degree LoS). meaning later my ranks count for nothing with multiple flank charges and chaos knights / khorne chariots to the front.

any ideas how to deal with this? shooting has brought some success... i've managed to knock sorcerors out of the sky with doomdivers but can only kill 1 that way. the chaos MSU means it's easy to cause panic tests with missile fire... but the chaos rule allowing them to reroll panic means this has no effect. pretty much after turn 1 i reliably have no shooting and little fast cavalry. is the MSU cavalry WoC list common elsewhere or am i just unlucky? I've managed 1 win against the list out of 3 games, which sounds ok... but the win was OUTRAGEOUSLY lucky (greatest luck in the history of WHFB, 3 goblins killed a unit of hounds, a unit of knights, a BSB exalted champion and a khorne chariot in one turn!). and i'm playing against them again tommorow and can't figure out a decent approach....

Sounds like a classic time to take a crapload of fanatics. Multiple flank charges mean nothing if only two models make it through the spinning loons!

Lots of fanatics sound nice. Don't forget the trick to release them from behind your unit and heading towards the front. They go through your unit, but will most likely land where the enemy cav unit ends it's charge. That means 2d6 on them!

You can always try 10 or 12 arrer boyz. They aren't great shots, but they aren't bad shots. They might be able to take out some marauder units or hounds. OK...they might re-roll panic tests, but you can still kill some that way. How big are his units? Kill just a couple and you reduce a 5 unit pretty significantly. Also, this unit could do alright in combat if it faced off against just one unit. It would have a rank bonus to help. Don't forget to place your units so that in case they do win, they overrun off the board or into a corner. That should take a unit out of the game for a couple of turns.

Snotlings are good re-directors, too. I've used them on the flank of a big infantry unit to force the enemy to miss the main unit. You have to place them and face them so that when they get charged, the enemy auto-aligns to it's frontage. Then, when it wins, it goes straight and misses the main unit. Not always possible, but it can work.

i'm reluctant to take fanatics simply because WoC have one of the best units for drawing them out early, i.e hounds. (by best i mean low cost/high effectiveness)... a unit of hounds costs pretty much the same as one fanatic, a bargin swap for my opponent. this combined with doubling the VP's my fragile NG units yield has left me unconvinced i want to invest my hopes in something i've little control over.

a unit of 15 arrer boys arrived from ebay this week, and i had plans for using them as a warmachine protecting unit, so i deffinatley plan to give those a try though :D i've never been sure why so many seem to dislike arrer boys? they're cheap, T4, just as good shots as most armies, and can also take on light cavalry with str4 first round of combat. gonna give 'em a few games... i'm sure it will become apparent over time why no-one uses them :D

Actually, I've found units of 10 or so to be pretty good! I always like to include them, but it's a matter of finding points for them. I have found that most people have a strong dislike for arrer boyz. It's almost as if they aren't Wood Elves, than they aren't worth taking. I've even used units of 25 arrer boyz before! It's fun when a large creature comes within range.

If you had a few units of arrer boyz around your lines, I'm sure you can thin out the hounds or the marauders (or any unit, really).

Squig herders might be a good unit for you to take if you are getting flank charged. Just make sure it's big enough to live through a round of combat. When you break, you explode and take out a lot of the enemy that was hitting you. When you take down cavalry, they are usually worth more.

Snotlings might also be good to throw out at the enemy and distract some units so there would be less to swarm you. Or set up traps with them. As it's been said before, great Greenskin tactics are about finding creative ways to kill your own troops.

Being a player who comes up against WoC often, this guide has come in really handy.

A very good read. Well done mate.

Ok quick question, Say i am fighting a unit of Warriors with mark of Khorne and I beat them in combat, what happens? Do they loose the mark? Because I have been told that once they loose the mark they are stuborn. Sorry if I am asking a basic question but it does get a little confusing fighitng these guys.