Here is my Overview of the new Daemons of Chaos (since i didn't see one) as well as some tactics for O&G players to use. Sorry for any spelling mistakes and the wall of text...

Daemons of Chaos: Overview and Tactics.

Army Rules

Daemons of Chaos are a lot like the undead armies in that they feature fear causing units that are themselves are immune to psychology. In addition to these standard undead rules every daemonic unit receives a 5+ Ward save and their attacks count as being magical. Unlike undead when they lose combat the daemon player rolls a break test with modifiers as normal but they take additional wounds for each point the test is failed by instead of crumbling directly.

Unlike the previous incarnation of Daemons of Chaos this new list seems designed to be run with a “Combined Arms” approach in mind with each of the God's troops fulfilling a different role within the Army. The list is designed to select units from each god to fulfill different roles in the army rather then fielding a fluffy army dedicated to 1 god. That being said army’s dedicated to a single god are feasible but they do not seem as competitive as an army featuring units from all of the gods.

KHORNE:

In general units devoted to Khorne fulfill the role of hammer units within the new Daemons of Chaos list. Having frenzy and additional dispel dice removed from their previous version the Khorne units now feature hatred, magic resistance and killing blow which greatly increase their hitting power in combat while still providing some magical protection.

Bloodthirster- Since the Bloodthirster no longer suffers from frenzy it is a far more reliable and dangerous character then its previous version. With the options for various daemonic gifts that give the Bloodthirster a variety of abilities which enhance it combat prowess. These guys can go 1 vs 1 with almost any character that an O&G player can come up with and attacks should be made to weaken them as much as possible before facing them in combat.

Herald of Khorne- At Weapon Skill 7, Strength 6, Attacks 3 with Killing blow and hatred these guys are pretty hard hitting for only 15 points more then a Black Orc Big Boss. Combine that with various daemonic gifts, the ability to become a battle standard bearer, the fact that they can be mounted on either a Juggernaut or a chariot and as well as the ability to give any unit joined by the Herald, Hatred for all enemies.

Bloodletters- Like all of the core Daemons they are 1 point less then a standard Black Orcs. Bloodletters are Weapon Skill 5, Strength 5 with killing blow and MR (1). They are able to take 2 magic banners bestowing an addition D6” on their first charge or all ways being allowed to march even with an enemy within 6”. If joined by a Herald the Bloodletters gain hatred. Their primary draw back is that being only toughness 3 they are somewhat fragile.

Flesh Hounds- For the same cost as a spear chukka, each Flesh Hound comes with 2 Weapon Skill 5, Strength 5 attacks, along with MR (3) these guys provide an expensive speed option for Khorne armies. One Flesh Hound can be upgraded to the special character Karanak. He counts as a champion so he is stuck in that unit but he gains hatred and he can select one enemy character which he gets to re-roll hits and wound.

Blood Crushers- For the cost of 2 spear chukkas your get a Bloodletter on the back of a Juggernaut. On any given turn, you will see 2 Strength 6 and 2 Strength 5, Weapon Skill 5 attacks coming from each Blood Crusher. With a 4+ armour save and the standard 5+ ward Blood Crushers are the most heavily armoured unit in the Daemonic army.

NURGLE:

For the most part the units devoted to Nurgle fulfill the role as anvil units within the Daemons army. Having lost many of the daemonic gifts such as Cloud of Flies the new versions of Nurgle units now feature poisonous attacks which adds to their wounding power since the Nurgle units tend to be slower and less skilful in combat then some of the other daemon entries.

The Great Unclean One- An avail character with 10 wounds and toughness 6 this guy can tie up entire units on their own. Starting as a level 1 they can be maxed out at level 4 using Lore of Nurgle. The Great Unclean One only weakness is with only having 4 attacks they can have some difficulty killing enough enemies to win combat on their own.

Herald of Nurgle- Herald of Nurgle is one of the tougher hero level characters in the game. Coming in with Weapons Skill 5, Toughness 5 with the 5+ ward and regeneration combined with other gifts such as forcing character to strike last or forcing toughness test for each successfully wound this guys will generally stick around for awhile in combat. In addition if they join a unit they confer regeneration to that unit. A major draw back is that they can only be a level one wizard making them some what ineffective in casting the higher level spells in the lore of Nurgle. They can be mounted on a Palanquin which confers a number of additional attacks and a 6+ armour save.

Plaguebearers- The toughest of the core daemons featuring Toughness 4 and poisonous attacks plaguebearers make a strong anvil unit. Combined with the ability of the heralds to confer regenerations as well as magic banners causing poison wound to count as 2 in combat resolution or allowing to re-roll attempts to wound these guys are great at tying up enemy units and acting as a blunt to an opponents charge.

Nurglings- For the cost of a spear chukka you get a skirmished, scouting unit with 3 wounds and 3 poisoned attacks. The can be treated expensive screening unit since they can be used to block line of sight of the enemy. Most often Nurglings are used to absorb a charge in such a fashion which allows a timely flanking manoeuvre by some of the speeder daemonic units.

Beast of Nurgle- Costing 5 points less then 3 spear chukkas the beasts of Nurgle are an expensive but durable unit. At Toughness 5 with the ward save, regeneration and the ability to negate combat resolution for flanking and rear ending they often be used to tie up a flank and deter fast cavalry. Unfortunately for the beasts their random attacks can make them some what unreliable in combat.

Lore of Nurgle- This lore features 6 spells which almost all require the opponent to take a statistic test of some manner. For the most part if the opposing player features a high toughness troops many of the spells in the Lore of Nurgle may be somewhat less effective. Finally, considering that the Hero level casters of Nurgle are restricted to level 1 this means that Plague Wind is practically unusable for anyone but a Great Unclean One since it require a 13+ to cast.

Slannesh:

The units of Slannesh primarily fulfill the speed and mobility role within the Daemons list. With the slowest unit Movement 6 the Slanneshi units excel at trying to manoeuvre on to the flanks of enemies or dealing with other fast and lightly armoured units. To that end all Slanneshi units have gained armour piercing attacks which helps to remove what little armour any equally match opponents may have.

Keeper of Secrets- Still fast, still strong, still tough the Keeper is the second best fighter in the book behind the Bloodthirster, although an argument can be made that a properly equipped Keeper of Secrets can top a Bloodthirster thanks to always striking first and having Strength 6 armour piercing attacks. Starting as a level 1 wizard he can be maxed out at level 4 allowing him access to the still dangerous lore of slannesh.

Herald of Slannesh- The cheapest of the Daemonic heroes the Herald of Slannesh feature 4 armour piercing attacks at weapon skill 7. Since they always strike first they rely on killing enemy units before the get the chance to strike back considering that they are only Toughness 3 they are some what frail in combat. When joining a unit they confer always strike first. Like the Herald of Nurgle, the Herald of Slannesh is restricted becoming a level 1 wizard which can limit their magic options. They can be mounted either in a Chariot of Slannesh or on a stead of Slannesh which can increase their mobility as well as hitting power.

Daemonettes- At movement 6 the daemonette provide an excellent foot speed option for Daemon players. With 2 weapon skill 5, armour piercing attacks the daemonette can pump out a large number lower strength attacks which are perfect for dealing with lightly armoured foot troops. Combined with a Herald they gain always strike first which further emphasizes the philosophy of kill before begin killed. Daemonettes can carry two magic banners one making them stubborn on their first break test with another allowing enemy units to only hold as a charge reaction.

Seekers of Slannesh- A movement 10 cavalry unit makes it one of the fastest units in the game. Like the daemonettes each seeker has 2 armour piercing attacks along with a poisoned attack from the mount itself. Even thought they are 6 points cheaper their previous incarnation as the mounted daemonette they suffer the same fragility of other fast cavalry units in the game with out the actual fast cavalry ability. Seekers are the only special unit in the list that are allowed to carry a magic banner

Fiends of Slannesh- With 4 strength 4 armour piercing attacks and movement 10, Fiends of Slannesh are an excellent flanking unit or dealing with skirmisher or fast cavalry. In addition their daemonic gift: Soporific Musk forces enemy units which break from Fiends to roll and extra D6 and to discard the highest number. Unfortunately, Fiends are somewhat fragile with only toughness 4 and 3 wounds they are somewhat pricy for a unit that will be in danger of being killed off by shooters or magic.

Lore of Slannesh- A far more accessible lore then the Lore of Nurgle to the level 1 casters` the Lore of Slannesh features a number of damaging spells as well as spells which effect the enemy units psychologically. .

Tzeentch:

The Daemons of Tzeentch fulfill the general support roles within the army providing flyers, short range shooter, and magical support from their troops. This is further exemplified by the addition of flaming attacks to all Tzeentchen units.

Lord of Change- Arguably still one of the best spell casters in the Warhammer World the Lord of Change is the weakest of the greater daemons in combat (if you call Strength 6, Toughness 6 and 5 Wounds weak). Starting at level 2 with the ability to reach level 4 the Lord of Change as access to the dangerous Lore of Tzeentch which combined with several daemonic gift to enhance its’ casting power the Lord of Chance can be a forced to be reckoned with in the magic phase….

Herald of Tzeentch- Statistically the weakest of the Heralds the Herald of Tzeentch starts off as a level 2 wizard were as the other Heralds must buy their magic levels. The Herald confers a +1 to the ward saves of any unit it joins. The Herald of Tzeentch is the only hero level character to gain access to the Spell Breaker gift (dispel scroll) and it can be mounted in either a chariot or on a Disk of Tzeentch

Horrors of Tzeentch- Like the Heralds the Horrors are the weakest daemons when it comes to close combat ability. The Horrors strength lies in their unit size… Depending on the size of the unit of Horrors the unit counts as wizard of a certain level. The larger the unit the higher level magic they count as. The primary strength of this is that 1 or 2 moderately sized blocks of horrors can generate additional dispel dice to protect their army as well as casting lower level spells to draw out your power dice before the more powerful greater daemons begin castings. The unit can carry a pair of magical banners allowing them either to cast a 3d6 Strength 3 bound spell or to add a +1 to any casting rolls they make.

Finally a single Pink Horror may be upgraded to a Changeling. This special character may swap any or all of his weapon skill, strength, toughness, initiative or attacks with a single model in base contact for the remainder of the combat phase.

Screamers- Having taken a 3 point cut compared to their previous incarnation the screamer have taken a major cut in statistics having lost their 2nd wound as well as a point of strength, toughness and leadership. That being said their slashing attacks for flying through enemy units has improved with each screamer causing a flaming strength 5 hit as well as now being allowed to pass through multiple units. Since screamers are the only marked flyer in the list they are still an expectable unit for war machine hunting or pesky units on the peripheries of the battle

Flamers- Flamers are the only shooting unit in the daemonic list. For cost of a spear chukka for each Flamer you get a D6 Ballistic Skill 4 (5 for the champion) flaming ranged attack with a moderate range of 18”. In addition their 2 Strength 5 attacks in combat, Flamer can hold own as a flanker or dealing with other skirmishers or fast cavalry that have survived its shooting. .

Lore of Tzeentch- Unlike the casters for the other 2 lores the Tzeentch hero level casters can reach level 2 which gives them a major edge in casting. The addition of the spell: Boom of Tzeentch spell which generates and additional D3+1 power dice for that wizard can potentially prolong an already dangerous magic phase.. Unfortunately for Tzeentch players the final 2 spells in the list require a 12+ and 13+ respectively to cast which makes these spells difficult for non-lord level characters.

Undivided Units:

Daemon Prince- Starting off 150 points cheaper then the Greater Daemons the Daemon princes is a weaker choice in filling a lord slot. Having inferior statistic as well as a magic level cap of level 2 and a daemonic gift cap of 75 points most players would rather take the more expensive greater daemons then use a seemingly inferior Prince

Chaos Furies- Chaos Furies do not count toward the minimum core choice selection of the army list. Being almost 1/3 the price of screamer they offer a cheaper flyer option to daemon player. The primary weakness of the Furies is that they are only leadership 2 which means that if the furies lose combat it is likely that the entire unit will be lost to instability. That being said they can still be used as war machine hunters or dealing with lone characters.

Special Characters

Lords

Skarbrand The Exalted One- A slightly improved Bloodthirster which in addition to all of the normal fun that Bloodthirsters’ cause he allows no armour save and possesses a Strength 5 breath weapon. In addition he causes every unit on the table to possess hatred which can make combat a very interesting situation.

Kairos Fateweaver, Oracle of Tzeentch- Having the ability with the 2 heads to either know all of the spells of the Lore of Tzeentch or selecting 4 spells from any 2 other of the 8 primary lores Kairos one of the most versatile magic users in the game. Kairos also features 170 points worth of daemonic gifts bestowing a 3+ ward, allowing a re-roll each turn and add +2 to all casting attempts. The main difference between Kairos and the other Lord of Change is that Kairos has only 1 weapon skill 1, initiative 1 attack in close combat which makes picking your targets to enter combat with very important.

Ku’Gath Plaguefather- In essence being a Great Unclean One mounted on a Palanquin which features a ranged attack that counts as a stone thrower which wounds on a 2+ with a 24” range as well as being a level 1 wizard. In combat Ku’Gath is a major anvil that can be used to blunt almost any enemy attack featuring daemonic gifts that prevent the enemy from claiming bonuses for flanking or rear ending as well as creating new nurgling bases. Finally, when fighting Dwarves Ku’Gath gains hatred which is a tasty treats.

Heroes

Skulltaker- He is the special bloodletter character who besides having improved stats, he killing blows anything on a 5+ in a challenge. The catch is that he must always issue and accept challenges therefore you can tie him up with champions.

Blue Scribes of Tzeentch- The Blue Scribes are a pair of horrors mounted on a Disk of Tzeentch with a combined profile which is not designed for combat power. With special rules allowing the Scribes to add a power die for each successful spell cast by the enemy during his turn as well as cast a random spell from any of the primary lores as a bound spell each turn.

Epidemius, Tallyman of Nurgle- A hero level Plaguebearer that is mounted on a Palanquin whose primary ability is to provide bonuses to other Nurgle daemons. When certain numbers of wounds are caused by Nurgle daemons they begin to receive bonuses from Epidemius which improves their combat power, casting capabilities as well as improving Epidemius survivability.

Masque of Slannesh- Unable to join a unit the Masque is a high speed independent character. Having a 3+ ward save protecting her, the Masque features 2 dances which can either reduce an enemy unit’s leadership or movement by D3 until the end of the opposing player next turn.


Whatz an Orc to do????

General Tips- First many of the common strategies for facing undead apply to daemons. Take a higher leadership characters to help against fear, take larger units to ensure you are not out numbered by the fear causing units, try and select units that minimize the effects of psychology. Just remember that Daemons do take a leadership test after losing combat so you cannot always rely on their units falling apart as fast as undead ones would.

Chariots- If you see a daemonic chariot you know there is a character in it… Therefore you need to act accordingly whether that is sicking a Black Orc Hero with a great weapon to smash it or just avoiding it all together you know that the model is fairly large point sink as well as a focal point of the army and it will need to be dealt with one way or another.

Magic- Daemon armies can field especially strong magic phases but Orc and Goblin players can easily match it (especially in smaller games) considering that only Tzeentch heroes can reach level 2. That being said no O&G player should not leave home without at least 1 scroll caddie considering every Daemon character (with the exception of Khorne ones) can become magic users and units such as Horrors have potential to cast spells or carry bound spell magic banners.

Herald Hunting- The herald confer bonus to any unit that they join (bonus discussed above) but the moment that they are killed the bonus is lost. Therefore they should be targeted when ever possible. The ‘Eadbutt spell (if rolled) and Nibbla’s Itty Ring are both excellent tools at carrying out this task. In addition should your character selection and design permit it try and get these characters into challenges where they can be killed and leaving their unit without the bonus.

Deny Roles- As mentioned above the units in the daemonic list are each designed to fulfill a specific role with few units being able to handle tasks outside of their designed roles. Therefore try and create mismatches where there role units are forced to act outside their primary roles whether it be forcing the speedy Seekers of Slannesh to engage big block units of Orcs or sacrificing a block of Goblins to tie up a hard hitting unit of Bloodcrushers. By doing so not only will you foyal what ever plans your opponent had for you but the mismatches should create statistical advantages which can be taken advantage of.

There Worth A Lot- The cheapest daemons cost the same as 4 un-upgraded Night Goblin or 2 Orcs with shields. This means that you should for the most part out number any daemon army that is fielded against you. Even though the daemonic troop may statistically out class the general Orc and Goblin you can use the extra troops and units to push the attack and to try and create the match up mismatches and denying role (as mentioned above).

Units to consider

I`m not saying you need to take these units to win but in my experience these are the guys that get the job done.

Spear Chukkas- I would advise to bring at least a pair of chukkas since all of the lord choices (with the exception of Daemon Princes) are large targets. Even though they do have a ward save the cheap spear chukkas are the perfect choices to knock a few wounds off of these monsters.

Squig Hoppers/Herds- Immune to Psychology, high strength and the potential of doing damage when they flee, Herds and Hoppers make excellent units at tying up units and they have to potential of doing major damage

Savage Orcs- Whether on foot or on a boar their frenzy makes them immune to psychology until they lose combat. The lack of sacrificial troop within the daemonic list makes it a dangerous for them to try and divert the Savage Orcs since they are unable to flee as a charge reaction.

Giants- Giants are an excellent choice since they are stubborn leadership 10 which makes them great for taking a charge from certain daemonic units. Beware of the Khorne units with their high strength attacks combined with the lack of saves on the giant they can eat through him. That being said the giant is great at absorbing the charge from some of the lower strength daemonic units holding for the turn and allowing a unit to hit their flank.

Units to Avoid

As before you can be successful with these units but in my experience generally they do more harm then good.

Large numbers of Goblins/Night Goblins- Don’t get me wrong a unit or two of Goblins/Night Goblins when facing daemons are a good thing. They can be used as sacrificial meat shield while protecting to more valuable Orc units from magic or direct charges. But if you are considering taking large numbers of goblins you will find that you will face a number of major obstacles in achieving victory.

Large Numbers of Wolf/Spider Riders- The same can be said for Wolf and Spider riders. Taking 1 or 2 units of 5 with a musician to be used for baiting and fleeing as well as taking the flanks of units is a good idea. But anything more then that is a dangerous proposition considering their speed and low leadership the will most like fail a fear test and run of the table.

Trolls- Surprisingly I would avoid Trolls. Although they cause fear and are a strong and tough unit the daemonic list features a number of units (every Tzeentch one) as well as a daemonic gift that confers flaming attacks. Your trolls will quickly become targeted by these units early in the game in an attempt to remove their regeneration ability which will greatly reduce their resiliency.

Thanks for that, fauthsie. Very interesting read. ;)

I haven't faced many of the new Chaos units, but I have played a few times against a mates 1250 list. Some observations of mine;

Nurgle Herald on Palanquin. PERFECT target for Mork Wants Ya. Initiative 2 is not going to help him much. Kill the Herald, the unit loses regeneragtion. DON'T expect to kill the unit in under 4 turns while it can regenerate.

Bloodletters have great attacks, but die fairly easily. I have taken a charge by them on my Night Goblins twice, and won. Sure, the dice liked me, but if you can peg off their rank bonus with a bolt thrower or two, you start with a 2 to 3 point CR advantage. :yarr!:

Screamers are indeed nasty. They die fairly easily, but the S5 attack from each on each unit they fly over really hurts small units. I lost some fast cav a few times to them (casualties then panic off the board).

My best advice is use your numbers to outflank them. Fanatics still hurt their ranked bloodletters, despite their 5+ ward. I have used a 25 NG unit to deliver fanatics, and then flee from the charge, setting up a nice flank. :yarr!:

I am not looking forward to facing a magic heavy force... :(

RoV

Wouldn't a small unit or two of arrer boyz help out against the demons? They could help thin the ranks of non-regenerating units. They don't cost much. They can still flank charge in, if they make their fear test.

If you know the enemy is going with a large demon target, a sacrificial unit of goblin stikkas (bow gobbos) could be useful. A small unit would be 60 pts, but you might get 20 shots at a large target with them! That might help in taking some of those large ones down for little cost.

I had a 13 strong unit of arrer boys in my 1250 list, and it certainly did help whittle the numbers a bit. Havid a unit with rank bonus and choppas, but small enough to be ignored can be handy too... :ph43r: Bolt throwers are great, but them getting their 5+ ward on the first bloodletter is almost as annoying as rolling that '1'.

Almost. :o


RoV

Generally I agree that a small unit of Arrer boyz or Goblins shooting can provide excellent support for a low cost. My primary issue with these units against this opponent is one of more cost effectiveness. Both 10 Arrer and 20 Gobins archers with no command cost the same amount of points to field. But for 10 more points you could take 2 spear chukkas which I find to be a far more effective unit at killing daemonic units (especially T6 Greater Daemons) then the Strength 3 bow shots coming from those troops. Even with the 20 shots at a large target you are only doing on average 2.2 wounds before saves and naturally this unit is likely going to get charged and destroyed in the next turn.

I would say that if you have 60 points left and no more bolt thrower or special slots then by all means take a unit of shooters. But me personally, I would rather spend the points beefing up my combat units for the combat that I know is going to come.

Special slots are always...well...special. I have a hard time deciding what to take as there are so many good choices. Having a very cheap core unit is a great option and hard to even compare to a spear chukka.

I say that any amount of damage that you can put on these big guys is worth it. If a whole goblin unit is able to put 2 wounds on a Greater Demon before they die, then I'm quite fine with that. They are only 60 pts. If your spear chukka does manage to hit, then you might actually kill the beast.

Also, I see a difference between 10 arrer boyz that are used to shoot at ranked demon units and then try to get a flank in (or guard war machines) and a unit of 20 gobbos that are meant to shoot at large creatures. The 20 gobbos are easily a throw away unit, while the 10 orcs are more versatile.

I,v only got one piece of advice when it comes to deamons. KEEP OUT OF CLOSE COMBAT!

When watching a fight one of my frineds got a truly awsome rear charge on a plague bearer unit. The big boss had the unit of 8 sandwiched between 40 of his best lads 20 either side. In a frenzy of dice the orcs ran leaving the now 5 man unit of plague bears ready for more. That unit of plague bears got a huge killl count that battle and in the next battle i took up my new army of deamons (cant have other having all the glory) and cleared 40 skaven off the table (after two flank charges) with a simialer unit. Shooting the buggers i think is a good idea.

In short getting in arms reach of a deamon is a bad idea. :o

I disagree, Gorogg, at least with units that are fairly small. Orcs can almost hold their own against most the lesser daemons, and can hold their own easily if they get the charge. Plus they're half the cost, so if you even kill a couple, you should be able to win through static combat res.

Statistically, if you get the charge, Boyz with double choppas will take out a good chunk of the front rank of any of the lesser daemons, and then win through combat res, and kill a few more. Obviously the dice rolls won't go exactly as they should, but if you can charge a fairly small unit of daemons, by all means go for it! It'll be a pain to slowly kill them off, but with our cheaper and almost equally strong Boyz, it's doable.

Stay away from big blocks, though. If you don't have static combat res against them, then you're in biiiig trouble.

And as for the big stuff... Just shoot it with the spear chukkas, and hope you can get some hits in. We've got nothing that can go toe-to-toe with a greater daemon with much hope, but if you get it down to only a couple wounds left, a big boss or warboss *should* be able to finish it off, if he has to.

A unit which works very well against any type of Deamon are the Squigg Hopppers and Squig Herds (they eed the charge of course). Their damage potential is just insane. Furthermore Savage Orcs with 2 hand weapons are a real treat against the blocks (this counts for all units with higher strength attacks) because they are ItP and can cause some serious damage.

My biggest fear is a huge block of Plaguebearers plus Herald. IMO these are the ultimate anvil unit in the game and should be avoided at all cost. I do't think that a 6 round game is sufficient time to take out 20 of the blighters unless you concentrate all your power on them (which I advise you not to do).

Flamers are another unit that I am afraid of. Especially if your oponent fields 4-more they can control an entire flank by themselves against anything with a low AS. Tey should be targeted as soon as possible by preferably 2 Boar Chariots, large unit of Boar Boys (or Savages Boar Boys) or you should try to hold them up for as lon as possible (they aren't bad fighters either so don't make the mistake of letting them charge you or letting them sneak into the back of your army).

Cheers

the best tactic to defeat daemons is

1. stick to your general and use his superior leadership to allow charges. otherwise 50% of the time you will fail your fear test to charge.

2. use mass attacks to beat the daemon ward saves. dont think of it as 5+ ward saves. think of it as hand weapon and shield. not as scary for me. 2 hand weapons will shred most core daemons. my ghouls do far better than wights due to the greater number of attacks forcing ward saves.

3. orc chariots are also good vs daemons.

4. dont forget giants. these guys pose a serious threat to all daemons.

5. flanking cav do wonders vs daemon infantry blocks

phew am I glad this tactica is up I got 2500 point game against Daemons next month and was desperately thinking of what to take...

only thing I havent got in the above suggestions is the savage orcs unless my opponent lets me count ordinary boys as them.

I've found this is actually OK as long as you

1) only use them as redirectors within 12" of the general
2) keep them out of line of sight (in the flanks/rear) of fear causers so they can't get charged. (This is sort of only relevant if your fast cav have bows, I think)
3) Keep them far, far away from terror causers unless they're close to the general.

That's just in my experience, which isn't a lot, and it's a fair number of conditions to meet. (well, it really all boils down to "don't let the fast cav take ld tests when they're not in range of the general")

You know, I just read the daemon armybook and I'm just in awe at how nuts it is. It's... so... good. Like crazy. How could anyone ever hope to beat this? Seriously? A core choice with fear, itp, 5+ ward save, mag resist 1 and killing blow for... 12 a piece? What?

Or the skulltaker. Holy mother of god what is this? 115 points for all that?

And the items, the Zoggin' items! 125 points for a banner that makes all units within 12 STUBBORN? WHAT? 25 points to add +1 CR for each unsaved wound? What.

Oh man. Oh man oh man how tame OnG seem in comparison now.


___


How could anyone possibly play daemons of chaos and feel satisfied with a winning game? There's no skill at all. Just... moving forward. Jesus christ. They are so overpowered that it is nuts.

you're funny :D

anyways I like playing deamons, as much as I do any other army.
My armies are always extremely balanced and I've never had the feeling "this I can never win". (and so far I've got more wins then losses on my name, despite being experimental and suicidal in my lists from time to time... :D)

Way to say absolutely nothing :P

If I can just Draw against a Daemon army, I consider it a win for OnG and go home feeling just fine. My best friend plays them, so I've got a lot of experience, and unfortunetly, I rarely ever go home feeling fine

Not too many people in my local area are willing to field a Demon army. I believe the shame is just too much.

There was one guy who I played about 5 months ago. He had all sorts of crazy stuff including a Fate Weaver thing and a some Khorne lord on juggernaut with some armored spiky-things.

First turn, my rock lobba goes crazy off course, as usual. It ends up landing directly on the Tzneentch bird-thing's head! He missed his ward save and I killed him. Doh! That's the only time something like that has ever happened to me.

It had been a while since my opponent had played OnG. He forgot about fanatics. The Khorne lord and company charged my Warlord in fully ranked infantry unit. He forgot about my night goblins off to the side. I had two units. I got about 3 of them to land where he ended his charge. After all that, he had just his lord left (which was still pretty impressive to only lose 4 guys). I beat him in static CR for 2 turns and broke him on the 2nd. I ran him down!

So, that was my last game against demons.

I must say in tournaments these days; dark elves are way more popular then deamons.