Defending the Hero

You are completely missing the point. What I mean by values is that they both care about people, they both go out of their way to help people, they both belief in peace and equality, etc. Not only that, but they have similar personality traits as I have stated before, yet they are still able to bring something new into the relationship. So, yes, there is definitely something greater than friendship between them.

Anyway, you are totally backwards; being macho is not impressive, thus it won't attract much. In fact, it repels if anything. Personally, the only way that someone would be able to get attention is if they were kind, caring, compassionate, respectful, and sensitive, without all that macho nonsense. THAT'S why Link stands out from all of the rest, because he's not a jerk who hits on anything in a skirt. He's NOT a pervert who only cares about one thing.

Btw, if Link actually was one of those stupid macho guys, he wouldn't deserve EITHER Zelda or Malon, or anyone else for that matter. Not with that type of behaviour, immaturity and disrespect.

Yes TM. I will never argue the whole caring for other people thing. Personality wise

Link = Unassertively gentle follower. Generally simple minded with average/normal intelligence.

Zelda = Very feminine but assertively self reliant leader. Unusually smart and wise.

Romance wise this is a major mismatch IMO. Did I already mention vastly different backgrounds??

Anyway watch the Beowulf movie and there you will find the EXACT anti Link macho jerk that you are referring to.

..... Where are you getting this unassertive thing? And the follower thing? If Link was a follower, he would have been another of Mido's lakeys in the forest.

And Link is not simple minded. He clearly thinks of issues above and beyond his own little bubble. He's not going to sit around and think about goats while the world's crumbling into chaos. Seriously. That's not the kind of person he is. What, just because he's a warrior he's not going to have a brain?

And yes, Zelda is feminine, BUT she's also clearly very tomboyish. She has skills with weapons and fighting, and enjoys adventure just as much as Link does.

I disagree with you about it being a mismatch. They share many common traits and goals, which we've already discussed with you in other areas. And your point on different backgrounds??? So what? No one with backgrounds that are different are going to get married or fall in love? Right. You keep telling yourself that.

And once again, you're off topic. This topic is about DEFENDING LINK. NOT tearing him down, NOT arguing about how well matched he and Zelda are.

Motherly comforting royal princess with naive and innocent social outcast forest being = Good friends but no romance IMO.

Back on topic: Uhh yeah..Link fights real good but he has never proven to be a leader of anyone or anything except being the lone swordsman. So I defend Link in that he will continue this path instead of trying to pursue to be a King.

MalonsLover, knock it off. You're just being immature and thick headed right now.

Zelda is not motherly, and there is no where in the game that proves otherwise. Now, maybe you could say that Malon was "motherly" since she likes to boss people around; she even acts like the parent towards her father, IMO. You could also say that Link would react "fatherly" towards Malon, since fathers are generally seen as the ones that provide the little ones with everything that they have ever wanted, that take care of all of the troubles, etc. So you're kinda contradicting yourself here (and a guy being the provider and whatever is negative, IMO; a couple has to work together as a team and everything has to be on equal grounds).

Now, Link has proven countless times that he is a leader, otherwise he wouldn't be motivated to step up to the plate and take the initiative on his own to make things right. He wouldn't go out of his way to help others without consulting someone about it first. A leader is someone that stands up on their own, knowing that something needs to be done; after Link's awakening it wasn't as though he was told that he had to save Hyrule from the clutches of Ganondorf. He seen the damage that had been done first hand and delved right into the mess to fix it.

Btw, Zelda is not prissy, if that's what you're trying to say. Even the gossip stone said right out that she was a tomboy, indicating that she loves adventure and that she has the skills to fight. It's not like she enjoys standing around in the castle gossiping and drinking tea. I can't even picture her doing that (nor myself, because I'm very much a tomboy, too).

Oh yeah, and Link and Zelda work together as a TEAM. While Zelda keeps the Ocarina safe, Link goes off and obtains the three stones. And when they are adults, Sheik provides Link with hints (using her wisdom) and warping magic while Link awakens the rest of the sages (using his courage). It's implying that wisdom and courage go hand in hand, and really they do if you think about it. One cannot be wise without having some form of courage while one cannot be couragous without having some sort of wisdom. In other words, you have to know what you're doing before you summon enough courage to go ahead and do it, and you have to have enough courage to push away fearful thoughts and begin turning to different strategies. Thus, the triforce of wisdom and the triforce of courage really are symbolic of the relationship between Link and Zelda; the two compliment each other, which is what is supposed to happen in a close, romantic relationship.

Also, it can even be seen that the way the triforce is structured indicates something deep between Link and Zelda; both of the bottom triforces, wisdom and courage, are side by side holding up the triforce of power. This can be seen as them working together to keep Ganondorf at bay while it also indicates that they are closer then what others tend to believe.

What do you mean being a provider is negative?? Its a well established cultural norm. How is it negative that Link would be a provider/protector/comforter for Malon?? And Scene in the Sky = Zelda being VERY motherly. The proof is there whether you like it or not.

I agree with you on Link and Zelda being a team but how does that get conscrewed to mean that they have to force themselves to marry each other?? In a possible LinkxMalon there is nothing that says Link and Zelda can't still work as a team simply because they are not romantically involved. Why do I get this impression from some of you Zelinkers that Zelda would shun Link away and not support him in providing the needs of the common people/diverse races just because he might continue to live the life of a Hero instead of being tied down to the castle with her??

IMO Link and Zelda would make a far more effective team if Link chose to live at the ranch closer in being in the know on the needs of the people/races of Hyrule instead of being kept in the dark living in the castle as Zelda's boy toy.

What does it take for you to understand? The scene in the sky is romantic, not motherly; the only reason why you view it that way is because you want to debunk the romance that occured between them. Zelda wasn't being motherly; she was opening up her heart and exchanging her feelings with him. She was confiding in him and telling him that she felt that she was responsible for what had happened to him and the rest of Hyrule. How is that motherly? Because she wishes for him to be happy? Because she feels that she's giving something back to him that she feels that he was robbed of? Come on. Link would willingly do the same for her. There's a difference between doing things for each other and looking after each other. BIG difference. And yes, IMO a guy being the so call provider is negative. I sure as hell wouldn't want to be looked after (and that IS fatherly, no matter what you say. So you're being sexist by saying it's alright for a guy but it's wrong for a girl. Straight out and out sexist.)

And what I'm saying about their teamwork is that, within an interpersonal relationship, the same principles must apply. One cannot take over the other and supposedly "look after them". They have to work together as a team within the relationship, which is what both Link and Zelda do.

OK..I admit just maybe Zelda had some type of romantic feelings for Link, but it seemed it was never meant to be with Link being a sweet & innocent child in a mans body so Zelda did the right thing in giving his lost time back. The Scene in the Sky was like "AWWWW thats so sweet romantic" but it wasn't Romeo and Juliet type romantic at all.

The way I look at it, if OOT/MM Link chose to live with Zelda in the castle I'm OK with it. IMO it just means that he retired from being a Hero to choose a fangirly magical fairy tale romance with Zelda in following her around like a loyally obedient puppy dog everyday in the castle.

BTW..I admire that you don't need a man to take care of you. In a way I wish you were my GF so I wouldn't have to work 50 + hrs a week to pay the bills.

What part of the scene isn't romantic? There's romance running all throught that particular scene. And the fact of the matter is that Link is not a child trapped in a man's body; that's not why she sends him back in time. She sends him back because she felt that he was robbed from seven entire years of lost experiances. If anything, Link is an adult trapped in a child's body at the end of the game, so there's no reason as to why he couldn't experiance the pleasures of romance.

On the side note, Link would not be treated as Zelda's pet; she would treat him with respect and regard him as an intellegent individual as he would her, which has been shown throughout the entire game. If she thought anything less of his intelligence and capabilities, I don't think she would want to team up with him to defeat Ganondorf in the first place.

Nonetheless OOT Link seemed to have the personality of a child throughout the entire game. Link being percieved as a mentally mature man in OOT to experience these sensual pleasures you were talking about is completely non existant I'm afraid. What game did you play? Have you even played OOT before?? Name me one heterosexual male at your age that you personally know that would pass up the opportunity of being with a beautiful princess to be a child again?? Anyway I rest my case on that issue because OOT Link and Zelda never hugged or kissed in OOT in the first place. The Scene in the Sky was so
"Awww look at sweet and pure hearted Link floating away to the CT like an angelic cherub AAWWW." But yeah I agree with you 100% on the whole Link and Zelda teamwork aspect for sure. Its just IMO its not a mandatory rule that they have to be romantically involved for it to happen thats all.

Just because they didn't show them hug or kiss doesn't mean anything. And btw, I really resent the fact that you are throwing insults. I mean, I could turn around and ask you the same question. If you look closely enough, you'd be able to tell that Link matures a great deal by the end of the game, which is why he's able to understand things relating to love in MM; he's able to understand the dilemna that Anji and Kofu are faced with. So, you can't tell me that Link has the mental capacity of a child.

Also, what was Link supposed to do? He didn't enjoy seeing her carry so much guilt, so that's why he didn't choose to stay in the adult timeline. He wanted to ease her mind so that she wouldn't suffer anymore from inner turmoil. He does obviously want to start fresh, which is the reason why he returns to her at the end of the game (and he obivously remains in the castle and spends time with her; Zelda from MM: "I will never forget the days we spent together in Hyrule...).

I still don't see HOW on earth ''not being compatible'' with Zelda makes him ''totally compatible'' with Malon.
But unfortunately I don't see his grown self truly aware of what romance feels like. But that's also my point in the argument.
Zelda wouldn't want to have on her side a man who still has to discover his true self and his true feelings.
If anything, what Link feels is young love: an innocent love that can be experienced by children without anything sexual.
We can argue about it in real life, but in fictional stories, that's usually the best ingredient to point out that the two were meant to be together when they grow up.

It's a kid-friendly videogame, for Pete's sake, of course they won't make Link openly admit he suddenly feels like taking Zelda away and making babies. This is Nintendo, people.

That was my opinion, but we should stop it here. Clearly it's getting more of a cultural fight than anything else in some parts. I can live without a partner, I'm a girl, and even with a rich man, I'll still want to make my own life.
Besides, since Zelda's name was chosen in reference of Zelda Fitzgerald, a real life feminist if I recall, I doubt she'll want to let Link do all the work. And I'll doubt she'll let him do nothing either.
And I've freaking had it with the ''pet'' and ''toy'' remarks. They have no value in an argument whatsoever.

Geez, defending the hero.. I'ma try again:
His Triforce is courage. That power is only legged (sp?) to one truly worthy of being called ''courageous''.
Last time I checked, ''courage'' doesn't limit itself to defeating scary monsters. Real courage also has to do with emotions, decisions, and all that non-physical jazz.
Link is often unsure about his feelings, but once he's sure about something, he won't back up.
He WON'T suddenly become a coward when he discovers he omg feels romantic towards someone, no matter how cute it seems in a fanfic.
I also see Link as a misfit/solitary, but not as a ''nerd'' as some ''contemporary Hyrule'' fics tend to show him. He has a nice set of muscles that you just don't get while reading poems and playing RPGs. (So ok, that was a stereotype, but you get the idea.)
He's fit, he likes to move. The small carving outside his home in OoT even suggests he already had dreams of adventure (and mayhaps conquering? That's one of the things I can think about when I see a picture of dragon slaying).
He has a hard time lifting big-rooted plants at the beginning (like all Kokiri, it seems) but he has no problems with backflips. He's amazingly skilled with weapons of all sorts, to ease the player so it won't have to take half the game to learn how to use them, but we can also assume he's the type of kid who finds a stick and starts swinging it around to play. Not what TP's Colin would do, but I can see any Link, including TP Link as a kid, doing just that. (Yay, hitting stuff with sticks!!)
He can also be a brat. You can't hurt townspeople (respect) but you can use your slingshot against a castle window (I admit I've found that hilarious), you can try to kill cuccos, you can steal a man's hat and throw it in the water (you still pay...).
Yup. If they wanted to insist on Link being a guy that wouldn't want to hurt a fly, they wouldn't allow us to do that.
So ok, it's more a way to tell the player to be curious, but since the player ''is'' Link, and since Link ''is'' supposed to be exploring a big world and trying out everything he can think of... nuff said.
Also, he does seem to be able to reply to people when put him down. When at the beginning Mido forbids him to leave the village to see the Great Deku Tree, Link points out Mido doesn't have any weapons either (well, the old fashioned way, with the non-playable character repeating what Link ''said'').
He then doesn't get pass because one: he can be a brat, but he tends to avoid fights, two: Mido still had a valid point.
Ooon a last note, I've noticed today that a Gerudo woman says that horseriding is a dangerous sport. It surprised me because most of the time I hear anyone talk about horseriding, it's usually about how it -isn't a sport (and it annoys me to no end).
I then imagined that if OoT was an anime of some sort, it would've shown Link fall down a few times when he first rides Epona (for humor, obviously. Or to show how ''determined'' he is, if the anime is somewhat cheesy.)
Sure Epona gets soft when we play her song and are nice to her. Still, galoping isn't as easy as it sounds. Imagine jumping! >.<
Dangeeer, he eats it for breakfast. Somewhat a daredevil, after remembering what he was supposed to do in order to advance in the first dungeon, to state only one example.
He has a musical and physical intelligence higher than average. His emotional intelligence is still very much the one of a child, I believe. Not ''under average'', but he still needs to develop it.
With his musical intelligence and his abilities with puzzles comes mathematics. I think he'll be a good math student if we were to put him in school.
Left-handed people are also usually seen as creative and artistic.

Wo wo wait, am I doing it right, or am I making an ''epic fail'' out of myself?

I'm not asking anymore. MalonsLover, your warning level is going up a notch. Stay on topic, and STOP arguing about Zelink in every thread. If you want to debate, go to a general Zelda forum.

Now, let's get back to the original topic, defending Link, ok?

Edit: No, you don't fail, KokirianClockwork!! I agree with a lot of what you said. I'm just a little frustrated right now, so I'll respond to some of it when I calm down. ^^

I'm relieved!
Can't wait to see what else can be said about Link. Reading, writting, arguing about it helps me corner his nature for my little project.

I might take a few jabs at the concept of Zelink here and there but I never intended to insult you personally. I think its clear when I talk about Zelink being Zelda in having Link as her own personal trophy pet/sex slave is not to be taken seriously. Anyway you being a Zelinker doesn't mean I think bad about you at all. So I'm sorry if you thought I was personally attacking you.