Defending the Hero

So, we have a topic here called Defending the Princess. I'm thinking we need one called Defending the Hero.

This is a tricky topic. The creators still insist his lack of a voice is due to him essentially being us, a mere reflection of the player. He doesn't speak because it's up to us how he feels, in theory.
But this has definately been compromised in recent times by the ability to see his expressions, OoT, MM, TP and most of all the expressive Link from WW clearly have emotions and feelings of their own. One could easily thing the creators are attempting to anticipate our emotions with his reactions, I mean, who didn't sympathize with WW Link when Tetra rude to him? He looked annoyed for a reason.
But you could also say they failed to anticipate our feelings with someone like Ilia, for instance. I seldom come across people who truly like her, and feel the same as Link showed.

Anyways, so Link's a blank slate. But he still shows notable reactions. Defending him:

Statement 1: Link is thick-headed, or oblivious.

This is pervasive and everywhere. But how to defend? Again pointing out that Link is the player is something people miss. He should be only as perceptive as the player is. On his own you can clearly see him react: see the scene with Ruto offering her "eternal love" and his instant shock. If he was oblivious as a child, it's only because small boys typically aren't thinking about romance the way girls do.
TP Link many times he shows his perception. Take the way Telma flirts with him. He looks sheepish at one point...obviously understanding her intention.

To use the argument ( especially in romance debates ) Link is thick-headed so only the bold will win his attentions is flawed IMO. It underestimates his abilities. MM as a game would have been useless if Link had had as bad an emotional receptiveness as some claim. I've always thought part of his value was his ability to empathize with others, caring about them and making him the Hero he is.

Statement 2: Link is dumb.

This is different than the first one, because it doubts his intelligence. Link is not supposed to be as smart as Zelda, that's her role.
He is smart enough to figure out both fighting strategy and puzzles.

So, thoughts?

Believe it or not I agree with a lot of what you say. WW Link seems more with the personality, while TP Link is soft spokenly shy he seems to be responsive when females flirt or interract with him. OOT Link is probably the Link most associated with being oblivious. I'm aware of his shocked reaction with Ruto but it only indicated he was uncomfortable with the concept of mature romantic love. Remember there was never any dialogue that said "YOU DO UNDERSTAND THIS" And OOT Link as an adult obviously did not. Anyway..there is a big difference between being simple minded and being plain stupid. Link is definitely the former IMO.

Adult Link in Oot understood the implications of romance perfectly, which he was unable to pick up on when he was a child. It wasn't that he was uncomfortable by Ruto's confrontation, it was that he was surprised, finally understanding the actions behind her giving the stone to him as a child. For him, Ruto's "unconditional love" was completely uncalled for. Thus, the only reason why he would feel uncomfortable is because he doesn't return her feelings; let's face it... you're not going to feel comfortable when someone hits on you and you don't feel the same way towards them.

Thats true. I would feel uncomfortable with a fish woman as well. Its just OOT Link is never accused of being a ladies man thats all. Lets face it. Most fangirls I know would prefer an assertively well spoken Legolas type rather than an over obedient nice guy like OOT Link thats for sure. Thats why I can't picture Zelda ever having ANY romantic chemistry with a too sweet and gentle type like Link.

You're character bashing again. First off, how would you know what girls want unless you are one? As far as I'm concerned, a guy should be strong but not over-bearing and controlling; strong as in the fact that he is able to work through troubled times with his partner. He would have to respect women without reverting to stereotypical gender roles and would have to respect women's independance. He would also have to be sensitive in the sense that he cares about how others feel and shows that he is not afraid to reveal how he feels himself. Link is one that best fits this description, so why wouldn't Zelda be interested in him? He'd be an excellent companion for her as she would be for him. If you ask me, a guy who isn't able to express any type of emotion is not one that proves he's strong; if anything, the guy is a coward for hiding behind an empty shell. And, if Link was as "obedient" as you claim him to be, then he would've listened to Zelda and would've forgotten all about his connection to her. The fact that he returned to the castle reflected that he wished to be there upon his own will. So, obviously, Link has a mind of his own.

The fact that OOT Link is an emotional introvert is the empty shell/non emotional person you are exactly describing in a way. Other than that, there is no proof Link is going to do all those other things you are saying for Zelda. He will simply just do as he is told and thats it. I can just randomly say that he would be upset with Zelda and shatter the ocarina in front of her to show he means business on all this annoying motherly comforting. I don't consider Link a coward at all. Just that he seems romantically incompatible with Zelda thats all. It was very predictable that Link went back to Zelda anyway to help her stop Ganon. It didn't prove anything in him having romantic chemistry with Zelda one bit.

Okay... Let's get this straight. Link is not the non-emotional guy that I'm talking about. Link is kind and considerate, he's caring and compassionate, and he's in tune to others' feelings as well as his own. How does that make him an introvert? Again, you're character bashing just because Link isn't the stupid macho guys in which you describe.

Btw, Link has a mind of his own and Zelda is not motherly towards him. Stop bringing in your own insecurities relating to how you feel with strong women and stick to in game evidence. Zelda is not bossy, spoiled, or controlling; she's, like Link, caring, compassionate, and selfless. She is also very wise and yields some incredible power. And there's a difference between telling someone what to do and asking someone to do something. If the person who is being asked to carry out something accepts, they do so of their own free will; they're given the CHOICE. Link is given the CHOICE to go back to the castle at the end of the game (and he does). And that's AFTER Ganondorf has been sealed away. And ever since the beginning, Link CHOSE to help Zelda on their quest to prevent Ganondorf from stealing the triforce; it's not like she dragged him to every temple to retrieve the stones for her. He did it because he wanted to.

Yes Link chooses to be a nice helpful guy but what does this have to do with being romantically compatible with Zelda?? I'm sure there are plenty more worthy gentleman suitors of the Hyrule Court vying for Zeldas hand that choose to care every bit as much as Link does.

Must I point out EVERYTHING? Link and Zelda ARE compatible with one another.

Zelda

- caring
- compassionate
- loyal
- selfless
- mature
- wise
- courageous (as shown when she takes the risk to remain in Hyrule as Sheik, knowing full well that Ganondorf is looking for her)
- adventurous
-playful
- is a tomboy
- has the same values as Link
- experianced the Oot adventure with Link
- well respected by people
- protects the people of her land

Link

-caring
-loyal
- selfless
- mature
- playful
- courageous
- adventurous
- has the same values as Zelda
- experianced the Oot adventure with Zelda, despite the fact that she was Sheik at the time (when Zelda is revealed, both recognize the fact that they endured certain things with each other, bringing them closer)
- gains respect from people
- protects the people of Hyrule

Also, you cannot determine love based on status; just because Zelda is a princess doesn't mean that Link isn't right for her. In fact, Zelda would need Link even more because of his character, because he holds the same values and characteristics that she has. A relationship that is based on status calls for disaster; unless you love the person you're with, one cannot be happy. And the same goes for Link; Link shouldn't settle for anyone that is in his status range if he is not compatible with them emotionally as well as spiritually. Love doesn't work that way. Take away all of status symbols for Link and Zelda and you have two, unique entities that are compatible in more ways than one, that connect on nearly all levels. Besides that, being compatible with someone means that you share the same VALUES, the same BELIEFS, and have similar personality traits, but still bring something new and exciting into the relationship.

Seriously? Link is smart, end of story.
He KNOWS it's better to give the illusion you're doing what you're told and finish what you would've done anyway than try to argue with females.
Take THAT, Ruto.

As for Malon:
A cute girl asks him to find her father while he's at the castle.
Is there even a reason why he should refuse?
If Link was an ass then yes, there would be a reason for him to refuse.

As for Zelda:
Seing the girl of his dreams *cough*Imeannightmares*cough* for the first time and seing the Big Green Gingerman (thanks, adamwestslapdog) that's supposed to do her harm...
He'll be an ass if he took the time to tell her ''ya know, you might be wrong. Convince me first.''

His goal was to try and defeat Ganondorf a.s.a.p.
Unfortunately his nightmare turned out to be real anyway.
Next thing he knows, he's the chosen Hero, and the first sage tells him what he should know.
Then Sheik comes, giving him hints.
If he didn't follow those hints, it would'nt have been like Link.
The way the games are made, it highly suggests Link is curious. All Links.
''Curse the onw who throws something in my circle of rocks''
So, what are we supposed to do? Throw something inside the circle of rocks.
''Yes, open that chest, tee-hee.... Trust me''
Heck, it's obvious it's a trap. Let's do it!



Besides, OoT was more concentrated on the gameplay itself than on Link's ego.
I prefer basing my perception on the few times he reacts inside the game itself and the official artwork.
Link is introverted, but still has that impressive ''I can kill you with my stare'' look.
He can be aggressive.
When he smiles, it's with confidence.
On that picture with Young Link sitting next to Zelda, he doesn't have a sweet puppy look, he has a confident, boyish smile.

I really blame his lack of ''backbone'' on the N64 limits. Trying to work more on the gameplay and therefore using non-playable characters' backstories as excuses to give us more quests/side-quests than to tell us all ''Link's a wimp; he'll listen to anyone''.

I can't argue with Kokirian Clockwork, but I can argue with my beloved TM. Believe it or not I agree with a lot of what you said but when were Link and Zelda ever playful with one another?? If your talking about as children in OOT then Malon is more playful with Link since Lon Lon ranch is the obvious ideal place for LinkxMalon to roam free and get into fun playful mischief rather than all the rigid rules and regulations at the Castle with Zelda. Lon Lon ranch is Child Link's escape from being with Zelda babying him and keeping him in line. Thats not playful at all for Link IMO.

And what exactly are these similar beliefs and values are you talking about?? Please elaborate.

*puts on Mod hat*

MalonsLover- you're somewhat out of line, and off topic. This is a thread for DEFENDING Link, not for debating, tearing him down or bashing him. You don't have to agree with us. If you don't, simply don't post in this thread, ok?

*removes Mod hat*

I hate it when people imply that Link is dull, dimwitted, unintelligent, or some blindly obedient person who doesn't have a clue how the world works. Clearly, those people don't have an inkling of who he really is.

Link was sheltered growing up in the Kokiri Forest, that's true. But he interacted with the children and creatures there. He's not socially inept, and it really ticks me off when people try to paint him as such. He's clearly able to interact and be accepted by various different people and races of all stations and ranks. If he was the idiotic doof people try to make him out to be, I highly doubt the people would have ever trusted him. Seriously.

I see Link being simple minded but not stupid. It takes some intelligence to wield a sword & shield as well as a boomerang, bow & arrow, bombs ect. Link seems to be well accepted by the common people/diverse races of Hyrule for sure. Its just among royal society Link would likely be a social misfit IMO but Zelda would probably help him to adapt somehow and intervene on his behalf when needed in the awkward social situations of courtly life.

But I agree with you that many gamers consider Link to be a lame personality when compared to the more macho hero types from God of War, Halo, Prince of Persia and so on.

What is it with you and being macho? Macho only points towards being a coward, IMO, since you're too afraid to express any type of emotion whatsoever. Also, 9/10, those are the guys that are controlling, pig-headed, idiotic, jerks that are just full of themselves. So no, Link is not one of those guys for sure, and thank heavens for that.

Anyway, Zelda is playful towards Link. First of all, Zelda (unlike others) is not happy that she's a princess at all. She's confined and constantly wishes for the freedom that she doesn't have. Also, the gossip stone stated that she was very much of a tomboy, and that likely indicates that she is very curious and adventurous. Lastly, if you approach Zelda (before obtaining all three stones) while wearing various masks she giggles and laughs. Thus, she is the same as any other girl (except she's a tomboy, which is a bonus) and is only discriminated because of her title.

And what I meant by that they have similar values is that that have similar morals.

Similar morals?? So since Malon and Link both have a similar love for Epona then they should get married huh?? Anyway..I don't consider myself that macho. All I'm saying is that gamers who are fans of more mature rated games seem to stigmitize Link with the "nice guys finish last" label. Not many people believe Link is much of a ladies man to initiate a romance with Zelda or anyone else for that matter. Unless Zelda goes out of character and becomes a seductress LinkxZelda is never going to happen I'm afraid unless the relationship is strictly based on celebacy.