Twilight Princess and Ocarina of Time: Comparisons

Well, instead of going off topic in the timeline thread, I decided to make this.

Many times in my internet travels I have come across people stating that TP is a remake of OoT, or the spiritual sequel. Or even has parallels, enough that one can the OoT Link, and make him the same Link in TP.

I agree to a certain extent. Gameplay wise, they are very similar, but so is WW, except for the sailing.
The world of OoT is pretty much the world of TP, just shuffled around a bit and some parts left out. Kokiri Forest, Gerudo Valley, etc. But many are the same. You can even see what is likely the Great Deku Tree, but it appears to be the tree with the Forest Temple in it. Lake Hylia has sunk over time, possibly due to erosion, along with many of the water courses. There's a new Kakariko, and apparently the Hidden Village's sign translated by fans reads, "Old Kakariko", fitting with that being the village of Impa, whom Impaz references.
Another comparison in the characters. Some are hard to miss, Ilia being one. She's the childhood friend/lover that Saria was, while adding in Malon's temper and relationship with both her father and Epona. She looks like a more realistic and grown-up Saria. Bo is obviously a better and more productive version of Talon while the children of Ordon can be compared to the Kokiri. Colin seems to represent a young Link to TP Link's older version and Talo can be compared to Mido.

Outside of Ordon, you can compare Cor Goron to Darunia. He has the same jovial yet protective stance of his people. Renado reminds me of Impa, if only in manner. ( Others have stated his high cheekbones remind them of Impa. )

Telma can easily be a version of Nabooru while other characters have resemblance.

Comparing Zelda and Midna honestly reminds me of taking Zelda and Sheik from OoT, just splitting the roles into two difference people and garbling them a bit. Midna herself in her role reminds me heavily of OoT Zelda. She assists him in disguise, regaining her true form in the end ( Imagine TP Link's reaction as OoT's to Sheik's true form ) before saying goodbye forever. ( Compare to Zelda sending him back in time. ) TP Link is now left with Zelda, like OoT Link has the child Zelda who he shares few remembered experiences with.

The story IMO shares little resemblance though. A different villian is the primary until he finally proves to be a puppet. Ilia is the more focused on love interest who Link never definatively "breaks up" with, unlike his relationship with Saria. Link keeps running into Ordonians, who play a critical role in his adventure, unlike the Kokiri/Lon Lon in OoT. And most of all, the "it's the end!" with Midna and Link, unlike the "fresh start" of OoT with Link and Zelda.

So thoughts/?

I see Colin as a lot wimpier than Young Link even before he gets to save the world. Tee-hee.
That was my moment of complete imature..ness.

I'm just surprised that Kakariko village would even call itself ''Old Kakariko''. As if York decided to call itself Old York, or something.
Maybe it was Impaz who added that? Man, I should watch the details more carefully, even though I can't read Hylian/not planning to learn.

TP to me felt like a sequel more or less I guess, a continuance of OoT's story. Maybe offering a glimpse into the world child timeline Link grew up in.

The stories themselves have too many differences in them for it to be an effective retelling. It didn't have the same feelings OoT had. It was simpler, I think, whereas OoT was a little more complex, since it was the beginning of the story.

I dunno. I don't think I'm making any sense. So I'mma be quiet.

But I do remember reading somewhere about a theory that the monkeys in the forest could be evolved Kokiri. I dunno. It doesn't seem farfetched, as it is implied the Koroks are an evolved form of the Kokiri in Wind Waker.

I can easily see that, are you saying a specific continuace of OoT Link's story or just the world? I can see the parallels between OoT Link and TP Link, but I would never consider TP a continuance of the life of OoT Link ( seen it done in fan fiction )....I don't think it remotely fits with what I saw of MM Link. I personally think it would be going against everything he learned and stood for to just disappear into the life of a goatherd/animal caretaker like he was never more. IMO, that only works in a Link who's never become a hero and seen more, that's why I would prefer to think of TP Link as a new hero.

( We don't agree on this below so this isn't directed at you. )
TP also has this new Link in love with the childhood friend/village girl, and I dislike strongly the idea of MM Link disappearing from Hyrule to stay and fall in love with essentially Malon/Saria, especially after all he's seen. That's not the OoT/MM Link I know. I can however see it as a "what if...", where, what if OoT/MM Link had never been called until he grew up. At that point he may well have been forced out of the forest, and for lack of anything else found a job as a rancher. Or just stayed as an outcast.

As for the monkeys, I am more inclined to think they are a reference to MM, and even farther back to ALTTP.

( And why would you be quiet? You are a voice of sound and respectful reasoning)

I pretty much agree with whats already been suggested. OOT and TP are very similar, but different at the same time if that makes any sense. The same can be said with Link's signature shy and gentle personality that seems very similar between the OOT and TP Links. The main difference is that TP Link responds with excited puppy dog eyes and gentle sighs when he interracts with females like Illia, Midna, Telma, and the great fairy. Whereas OOT Link seems totally oblivious and aloof when interracting with Zelda, Malon, Ruto, Saria, and Nabooru. But that probably has more to do with 90's game technology if anything.

I also don't think the monkeys are Kokiris evolved. Kokiris are children of the forest, always relying on a big tree for their safety (ie, the Koroks, Kokiri evolved, still have a Great Deku Tree.)
The monkeys are just... monkeys. Who can talk. But cows can talk too.
I do also think it's more a reference to ALttP and MM.

The world, not the Links. OoT Link and TP Link are two different people entirely. I thought the only things they had in common were their appearance and the Triforce of Courage. OoT Link was something of an outcast while TP Link was anything but and was quite content in the life he led. OoT Link's courage was different from TP Link's, I think.

I thought the theory was interesting since the monkey that interacts with Link the most has the Kokiri symbol or something that looks like it on her arm. And she was attracted to the Lost Woods so she might be evolved Saria. I mean the Koroks were Kokiri evolved so they could survive in the Great Sea. Perhaps the monkeys were in the same position and had to change their shape to keep alive.

I tend to think I babble. And when I think I'm babbling, I think I don't make any sense. So I just kind of keep quiet.

I'd have to agree with you on that, they were pretty opposite in social situations. If I had to place them in a modern situation with teenagers/kids, I'd put OoT Link as the loner geek, and TP Link as the pretty-boy popular kid. OoT Link also struck me as somewhat cold and vicious in his fighting. I saw TP Link as gentler, kinder. One thing that TP Link had that I didn't like? He was a reluctant hero, IMO. Being content in his life, it was far more traumatic to be pulled into the nightmare world of the Twili and the fight for Hyrule.
Different courage? Do tell.

Hmmm. And there's a detail I missed...I'm still more likely to think it's a reference: With the Great Deku tree dead, how long could they have survived? They survived seven years without one, but were hiding in their houses from all the monsters. I think it plays an integral life in their lives, if the GDT is gone, I could easily see them going along with it.

You don't....I have yet to see a reply from you that doesn't have thought and worth behind it.

Different as in OoT Link was asked to take on this incredible task when he really didn't have to. It was destiny that he would of course, but he was still presented with a choice. Whereas TP Link didn't have much of a choice. He was dragged into the Twilight and kind of forced into becoming a hero, if he wanted to save Ilia and the kids.

Basically, OoT chose to be courageous and TP Link didn't. Or something like that.

I hadn't thought much about that. Though now it has me curious about the Rito/Zora theory I read on the Zelda wiki.

Well thank you. I don't feel so self conscious now.

Maybe that was why TP Link seemed more reluctant? ( IMO ) He wasn't really given the option to bow out, not if he wanted to see his friends again. Oddly enough if you compare him with WW Link, I think it's different: WW Link was also somewhat forced into it, with Aryll and all, yet he seemed eager like TP Link never did. Maybe that was his youth?
The other option to consider is that because TP was rooted in realism, or tried to be, that we realistically had to consider an Adult Link. Most 16 year guys would have a girl they liked, or one they were interested in. They are on their way to a career and life too. Most 16 year old farm boys also wouldn't know two words to say an actual Princess, and they got that right too.
Compare that with lack of reality in WW: Link is just a tiny and brave kid, alone on a vast ocean. Tetra ( another child, somewhat ) is ruling a bunch of rough pirates yet they essentially save the world. I personally prefer the series this way ( more fantasy ), but I suppose TP Link's courage ( thrown into it ) is more real.

I wouldn't consider that a theory so much as fact. Medli's ancestor is a Zora. You can also roughly see the physiology in her...her wing flaps were likely fins at one point in a Zora. Look at her insignia on her shirt too: It's the Zora's Sapphire, just altered a bit.

Yeah...I totally agree on the WW Link being more enthusiastic than the OOT and TP Links. But TP Link seemed more forced into the situation than OOT Link was. I also agree on the OOT Link being a more passionate/savage fighter whereas TP Link seemed rather relaxed and controlled when he fought. Also TP Link seemed like an unusually shy but totally normal teenage boy. OOT Link seemed more like a freakish enigma in being a child in a mans body with a peculiar and bizarre fairy whirling about him randomly. So yeah OOT Link seemed more the outcast than TP Link did for sure.

I don't think there is anything freakish about OoT Link at all. Just because he doesn't wear his emotions on his sleeve like TP Link does, doesn't necessarily make him a freak or an enigma. Sure he had to deal with having a childlike mentality, but that doesn't mean he's doing such outlandish things that will make people look at him like he's a freak. I think he'd learn pretty quickly how to behave like an adult, as he is essentially in an adult situation. And as far as Navi was concerned, people may have figured out he is a child from the forest. I dunno if they had an extensive knowledge of the Kokiri or if they knew the Kokiri never grew up. But considering Malon figured out he was from the forest, seeing a fairy with him didn't seem to be that out of the ordinary.

Thats true..I'm probably relating it more to the real world than fictional Hyrule. TP Link would just seem like a cos play dude with a baby face. As for OOT Link with his funny looking pointy nose, creepy blank stare, and Navi. Now thats pretty freakish if you ask me.

I wouldn't call OoT emptionless or creepy- compared with the graphics of the newer games like WW and TP, OoT Link naturally seems less emotional, but then, so do Cloud and the others in FFVII compared with the newer games and characters like the ones in FFX. It's all a matter of the graphics. There was only so much they could show with the technology they had. And I think that they've become more comfortable with letting Link show a little more personality as well, realizing that it wouldn't bother the players.

The thought never crossed my mind that the monkies were the Kokiri. I can understand why people would think it, but it honestly doesn't really fit. From what I understood with what WW told us, the Kokiri were able to change their forms to adapt to life- thus when it became an ocean world they took on shapes that would allow them to better able survive. If they're in a setting so much like their old world, why would they take the shape of monkies instead of their old children forms?

I was of the impression that the Kokiri and the Gerudo were both races that had either died out by the time of TP or gone into hiding. There's no sign of a Deku Tree being alive- without the DT to protect them, I don't think the Kokiri would survive long, as sad as that is. D:

But that's usually the case in the Zelda games. Link is dragged into events, whether he wants to be a part of them or not. Does he have the choice to turn his back and walk away at any point? Sure he does- but that's not the kind of person he is; he cares about others and can't stand by and watch while others suffer. OoT Link wouldn't walk away from people who needed his help, and neither would TP Link. I suppose that TP Link's intro into events does seem more dramatic though, since he's affected practically immediately, while OoT Link's change doesn't come until after Zelda has fled from Ganon.

I disagree- being courageous was always a part of who they were long before the world fell to pieces- it's part of what sets Link apart, that he has more courage than the average person, and a stronger desire to protect others. Before the curtain of Twilight falls, we see Link's courage demonstrated on smaller scales when he goes after the children when they wander into the woods to save them. I wouldn't say Link choosing to be a hero is more because of his courage, I think it's more out of the fact that he's an unselfish person who cares about others.

I wouldn't consider that a theory so much as fact. Medli's ancestor is a Zora. You can also roughly see the physiology in her...her wing flaps were likely fins at one point in a Zora. Look at her insignia on her shirt too: It's the Zora's Sapphire, just altered a bit.

This is fact. For some reason the Zora evolved into birds; the sages bloodline was what enabled Medi and Makar to awaken as the new sages because they were decended from the original two. Which, if you think about it, is a little weird since the Zora were water dwelling creatures to begin with. So why when the world is flooded do they become a tribe of bird people? It's totally weird.

I have never thought about the TP monkies being kokiri as well. Interesting theory. As for the different Links courage, true that the instinct for courage is the same between the two. Its just the circumstances are different.

TP Link: Normal everyday country bumpkin with a very boyishly shy personality rather thrusted into being a hero when he is viciously grabbed by a Twili.

OOT Link: Cute and cuddly forest child who seems sad and emotionally introverted chooses to be a hero because the fatherly Deku Tree had died. And with his new fairy as his companion to ease his loneliness, it empowers Link with confidence to do the right thing and leave the forest willingly to begin the exciting adventure.

To put it simply, OOT Link seemed to want to escape from his lonely life as an outcast kokiri with or without a fairy. TP Link seemed more content with his life as a goat herder and a growing childhood romance with Illia.