Friendship = Love ?

I don't know how to respond to that except to say I find that view badly lacking in reality. Each and every part of that statement is enough to base a career on, let alone juggle. Part of the day? Hyrule is an entire kingdom, just shrunken for gameplay and memory purposes. Link's going to be gone for days if he goes to some frontier. Overseeing the common people and helping them with travel time included is also days..not hours. And a part time knight? I find that unrealistic.

Would you have time to travel to the capital, make your way to the White House, sit in a meeting, do military things as well as working and feeding your pets? I highly doubt it.

And once again a concerted attack on the Link as King viewpoint. Time to break the points down.

He's gentle to those he cares about and is helping. He's vicious to his enemies, did you miss the part about him having the spirit of a beast? Very apt.
Anyone who crosses him and threatens something he cares about is going to be sorry. That could well be an enemy who threatens his land. You shouldn't confuse compassion with weakness.

So if the very man who saved their entire land was rewarded with the hand of the Princess...they'd revolt? I don't think they'd be in any condition to do that. And the common people would never stand for it.

I can't provide you proof of that because I agree he has no knowledge. That's where Zelda comes in: brains teaming up with brawn. Wisdom and Courage work together, remember that.

Put that to the test with TP. Do you think Link wanted to stay in Ordon after the adventure? You are advocating the same thing for OoT Link, just replace Ordon with Lon Lon, and Ilia with Malon. And add some Saria to Malon, because Malon was never Link's best friend.

You know, you claim to want to debate with us, but you refuse to even consider our POV seriously. I truly think I am wasting my time here.

Ordon is a province OUTSIDE of Hyrule. Lon Lon ranch is WITHIN Hyrule in close proximity to both Castle Town and the provinces, thus Link has a geographical advantage in maintaining the frontier defenses in protecting the people of Hyrule and maintaining ties to Zelda nearby who by your own admission would not shun him away if he chose Malon over her. If history says that normal men were able to be knight/farmers then it would be a breeze for Link to do the same thing.

Believe it or not, I think you make a decent counter arguement in Zelda helping Link in co ruling with her, but I still can't picture Link wanting to be a King unless Zelda incessantly imposed it on him. I've always agreed with you on the Brains and Brawn thing but Link can do that just as easily living with Malon at the ranch in living closer to the common people/diverse races of Hyrule instead of away from them being cooped up in the Castle most of the time. Tell me....How will Link react fast enough when random baddies attack the countryside living with Zelda?? I rest my case on that one.

EDIT: Also, you have to remember that after the OOT adventure, nobody would know about Link saving Hyrule except Zelda. And if Link did return to Zelda after MM, he would more likely continue to only be known as the novelty social misfit of the Hyrule Court who is Zelda's adopted pet since childhood.

In all honesty, I still think the idea of Link choosing Malon over Zelda is entirely without basis...there's nothing to indicate it would ever happen...I just can't take it seriously and get past that. I know people like Malon enough to want to see her end up with Link, but I don't think Link ( outside of the player ) shared that sentiment.

If we were talking about Rusl and a normal knight/farmer...maybe. But Link is SO not normal...he's a special case. I don't think these ordinary examples work on him.

I think you over-estimate the value of the countryside. What really matters in the end is the castle and Hyrule's leadership. If that falls, so does all Hyrule. If a couple of farms are ruined, it's hardly going to ruin the entire country.

Evidence time. I quote you the prologue to MM.

That sounds an awful lot like they knew about his adventures. Do I need to quote TP's talk about the legendary hero? Obviously something made him legendary...he's known by everyone in the future.
Anyways...so here's solid proof that Link was not a nobody. If they knew about him...he'd be treated as the hero he is. No misfit label for him.

MalonsLover, enough with the feudal knight farmer thing. You clearly don't understand how a feudal system works, nor are you grasping the difference between a farmer and rancher. Lon Lon Ranch being the key word there. Ranches deal with animals and livestock- horses, cows, and chickens. Farms deal with crops like growing corn, wheat, and vegtables. A feudal knight does not actually do the ranching- he's the ruler. He has serfs and workers to do the labor, while he makes sure that things run smoothly. A small scale king. If you're so insistant on Link being a feudal knight, understand: he would be in essence a king of a plot of land- on a smaller scale than an entire kingdom, but still a full time job. That is not how Lon Lon Ranch is run. Talon is not a lord, Malon is not a lady, they do not have servants to run the ranch for them. They are private owners and take care of things themselves. Even if a feudal knight did do hard labor, again, they wouldn't be able to ride from one end of the kingdom to another in a single day and still get back in time to help out with the cores. That's highly unrealistic.

With that being said, again you're ignoring what I say about Zelda and Link neither being the type to be symbolic eye candy rulers. If you want an example of a ruler who would make Link into a lap dog, that would be more something Ruto would do with the way she bosses Link around and orders him about, not treating him as an equal at all. You are ignoring the fact that Zelda herself works hard for her kingdom, and nothing in her personality suggests she would ever do to Link what you are suggesting she would. That is insulting to her character, and I'm begining to find it offensive.

You're spot on, gliderpilotgirl, and I agree completely. Hyrule is much bigger than the game really shows. It takes you about five minutes to walk from the forest to Kakariko, but in actuality it would be a much greater distance. Link would not be able to stroll out of the ranch in the early morning for monster killing and return to there within the day. Depending on where he's called to, from Lake Hylia to the Gerudo Desert- he would be traveling days and days, and would not be there to help with the ranch. That's just as detramental to a marriage with Malon as you're claiming a marriage with Zelda would be. Malon needs a partner to be there on the ranch with her to help her out. Link cannot offer that if you expect him to be helpful to the people by ridding the land of monsters.

And I also agree with GPG about the fact that people know what Link has done- there are legends in TP, MM, and WW that speak of the hero of time and his deeds. Obviously they know what he did. And even when he's returned to his original time, he still has his skills, and he's still going to be aiding people. That's who he is. People will know who he is, see what he does, and I highly doubt anyone would object to a hero sitting beside Zelda on the throne.

Again, you're thinking of Hyrule on the small game scale when in actuality the kingdom his huge. Whether he's in the castle or on the ranch, he's still going to have to travel quite far to get to wherever it is he's called to. I also think you're underestimating the ability of the different peoples to protect themselves- they only really needed help when one of Ganondorf's huge monsters invaded and there was no one powerful enough to stop them besides Link. A few little dodongos are something Gorons can handle. A couple of attacking crows are no problem for the Gerudo. The Zoras are able to deal with a few jellyfish. Link is not the only fighter in the realm- he was the only one who could handle the caliber of monsters Ganondorf plauged people with, but on a day to day basis, most monsters can be taken care of by the small time fighters. Otherwise Hyrule would have been gone a hundered times over before Link grew up.

I'm also finding it offensive that you're belittling Link's intelligence and calling him a social misfit. Link is not an idiot- the puzzles you have to solve in all the temples are not something an average person can do. Link is adaptable and has no problems dealing with the different races. There's nothing to suggest that he wouldn't be able to adapt and be accepted by nobility the way he's accepted by all the peoples in Hyrule, including the Gerudo who are highly secrative and shun outsiders and men.

Agree again, GPG. Just because a person's a nice guy does not mean they are weak. Compassion is a strength in and of itself. Link is obviously a quick learner too- who's to say that he wouldn't be able to pick up on understanding the law with help from Zelda? Again, I believe you're underestimating his intelligence.

Yes Atlantie, the serfs (Ingo and Talon) did most of the work, and it was the vassal's responsibility that the work in the land got done. And if you go to Wikipedia and other historical sources, it documents that Vassals normally did have a hand in cultivating there own wheat and livestock when they were not riding around the countryside maintaining frontier defenses. So in an unintentional way you actually admitted that its possible for Link to do the soldier/farmer lifestyle. THANKS

Farm-Ranch whats the difference?? Usually in rural areas in the USA or abroad, they are one and the same. Just like my real life next door neighbor for instance. Since you have speculated on unseen royal stables, I can speculate that Lon Lon ranch would have to cultivate its own crops as well.

It seems to me you are the one underestimating Link's capabilities. Your very flawed theory on Lon Lon ranch going into a tailspin when Link is TEMPORARILY away doing feudal knight duties, but the ranch will be just fine if Link chooses to be with Zelda at the Castle is just obvious emotional frustration on your part. Gilderpilot herself just admitted that so what if a handful of villages/farms get burned and pillaged. Thats why Hyrule would benefit more with Link living in the countryside instead of living a uselessly spoiled and pampered existence with Zelda at the Castle IMO.

TO GILDERPILOT
I agree with you that it is easy to infer that Link performed heroic deeds when he grew up in the Child Timeline. Thats why I believe that when Link came of age after the MM adventure, he chose to be with Malon at the ranch to live the life of a knight/vassal to perform those heroic deeds instead of living a useless & counter productive life awkwardly out of place at the Castle. IMO thats the main reason why he left Zelda to go on the MM adventure in the first place.

BTW..I agree that when it comes to ACTION Link exudes bold assertiveness. But this has nothing to do with being a monarch whatsoever. As I have said before, true Warrior-Kings PERSONALITY wise were bold, assertive, and politically ruthless. Link DOES NOT have that type of personality at all, therefore he would make for a terrible King IMO.

Could you imagine Link making a royal speech?? Just picturing him nervously fumbling through words in addressing the royal subjects is likely to incite laughter from the crowd. More than likely, rival gentlemen suitors would heckle him and then Zelda will intervene on his behalf and have to go "There there Link..I'll take it from here" So NO!!! I still can't picture Link being a King at all.

You totally missed my point, so don't try to claim I agree with you. My point was that a few farms ( such as Lon Lon ) are ultimately unimportant. That's right...Malon is unimportant in the grand scheme of things. Link's called to bigger things...to be a hero and serve mankind. Malon cares about small things...her family and farm. We have a fundamental difference in mindset's here...the point of the game is that Link goes from a Malon-mindset/life to a Zelda-mindset/life. He's likely going to find her strongly incongruous with his new focus.

And in a round-about way, you are insulting Zelda. Do you see her as "uselessly spoiled and pampered"? She's the most selfless person you'd ever meet, willing to sacrifice her actual life ( TP ) if it means benefit to her people. She's Link's kindred spirit in this.

Link never showed any serious desire for Malon, so I see that as the glaring flaw in your reasoning. It doesn't go beyond that. All the theories in the world can be made to try and make it work ( and they have been ) but in the end it comes down to "did he love her?" There's no proof.

You know...back in those days Kings held the power of life and death. Unlike our democratically accountable to the people politicians nowadays. So we have that factor, plus the factor he's the kingdom's massively loved Hero. Do you honestly think they'd heckle him?

You know..I'm getting seriously frustrated here. Not with the debating as I enjoy a good one, but rather in your lack of desire to listen to anything we say: you are just here to advocate your ship. Good for you, but it's wasting my time to argue with you. Goodbye!

Again and again, you are missing what I'm saying, and no, I'm not agreeing with you so stop thinking that I am. Talon and Ingo, serfs? Sorry, but no. A serf is in essence a slave- if you have any idea of how medival feudal systems were run you never would have said such a thing. Serfs were considerd property and bound to the land that they served.

Serf: 1. a person in a condition of servitude, required to render services to a lord, commonly attached to the lord's land and transferred with it from one owner to another.
2. a slave.

And yet you're going to call Talon, the current owner of the ranch a serf, but not Malon? She would be a serf too if you're going to call her father one, and they would not own a ranch if they were serfs, it would be the property of a reining lord. And Ingo is not a serf- he's a hired hand who is paid for his services and free to leave whenever he chooses. If you want a taste of a feudal system, go read Ivanho. The Ranch is owned and run by

Farmer: a person who farms; person who operates a farm or cultivates land.

Ranch: an establishment maintained for raising livestock under range conditions

There is a difference. Lon Lon Ranch is a ranch- they raise and sell livestock and the animal products like milk. They do not raise crops. There is no mention of this at all in the game, so stop calling them farmers. They are ranchers.

And again, no, a knight would not be working on a ranch doing the labor.

The Pope
The King
Nobles
Knights / Vassals
Freemen
Yeomen
Servants
Peasants / Serfs / Villeins

That's the chain of hierarchy in the feudal system. Notice that Knights are far above servants, peasants, and serfs.

Knights AGAIN did NOT farm, ranch, till the land, whatever the heck you think they did. The whole point of becoming a knight was so that they wouldn't have to break their backs in hard labor- why become a knight and then go back down the chain by doing peasant work? That is the complete opposite of the idea of a feudal system. Which by the way, you still haven't given evidence that Hyrule has. Knights were trained soldiers who served the king in wartime,

And no, you can't specualte about crops being grown on Lon Lon Ranch while I can speculate about stables. Unlike you, I have clear proof that they did. Castles had stables- read anything about the layout of a castle and they will include stables somewhere in them. To think of a castle without stables is laughable- that would mean no transportation for the nobility, royals, or the soldiers. Impa and Zelda had a horse of their own to escape from Ganondorf. It had to come from somewhere. Unless it's a magic appearing horse now? Again I point you to the definitions of a ranch vs a farm. Lon Lon Ranch is titled as such because it is a RANCH. Not the imagined farm you think it is.

No, this is you thinking that Link is the only eligible man around for Malon to marry, and your flawed illconcieved idea that Link can be a farmer and a knight at the same time. If Link were to marry Zelda, you think Malon is going to remain single for the rest of her life? I highly doubt it. Her husband would help her, Talon, and Ingo run the ranch, and once they have children, they would be able to aid in the farm work as well. That husband does not have to be Link.

I love that you make Link out to be a social outcast and an unintelligent oaf who's not good enough for Zelda, but somehow manages to be good enough for Malon. So a bumbling idiot who can't fit in anywhere is ok for the farm girl since she can just stick him to manual labor where he won't have to use his brain? Nice. Since Link typically never has words in the game, I love how you speculate that he can't make a speech. You don't know that. That's your opinion of Link- he clearly inspires people everywhere, can deal with every race and get along with them well. I don't see how you can say this man would not inspire and be accepted by the nobility. Again, a huge insult to Link as a character. You insult and belittle him and Zelda both- the main heros of the game. The only character you seem to have any good opinon at all of is Malon.

Edit: And I'm with you, GPG. You're here simply to advocate your ship, not to understand or admit that we even have a vital point and that your ideal for LinkxMalon has flaws and holes. I'm done arguing with a wall. Congrats on alienating yourself from the majority of the members here.

Wrong again Atlantie. Feudal knights had to have an active part in maintaining their own land/fiefdom to keep the process of the economy to flow within their respected kingdoms. They were not fighting ALL the time. You continuing to contradict historical facts is clear evidence of your girly fangirl naivety on these issues. And if crops were not grown on the ranch that would just give Link more time to do his hero duties anyway. So thanks for supporting my LinkxMalon theory again.

And I only meant that Talon and Ingo would do the work of the serfs. I doubt Link would treat them as slaves and more likely he would take an active part in helping them out when he can. You still have yet to provide any proof that the ranch will crumble to the ground when Link is riding around Hyrule on Epona doing his hero duties anyway.

TO GILDERPILOT
I didn't mean to come off as insulting Zelda. To me she is the ideal ruler who is very self reliant. She doesn't need Link as much as Malon, who truly needs a husband/provider/protector/comforter/ KNIGHT in shining armor, and Link definitely fits the bill. True I can't prove that Link is in love with Malon but you can't prove he loves Zelda either outside of just being best friends. This whole they both care about the benefit of Hyrule only suggests close friendship and nothing more. If you continue to go on this logic then Zelda is better off marrying a nobleman/suitor who would be WAAYY more fit to rule by Zelda's side than the quietly humble and unassertive Link. There is no proof that Link would know anything about royal duties as a more qualified nobleman/suitor would.

Bottom line is LinkxZelda is the ideal opposites attract type of relationship. I have yet to read one point as to why Link and Zelda would have anything romantically in common in the first place. Everything that has been provided with the OOT and MM cutscenes only suggests FRIENDSHIP, not romance. Zelda doesn't even seem physically attracted to Link anyway. Where is the dialogue that suggests Zelda wants to marry Link??

At least with the Gossip Stone about Malon's knight in shining armor and Malon being appreciative of Link when he sets things right at the ranch and says "I owe you so much" might indicate she is actually attracted to Link. And the Cremia hug in MM may or may not indicate that Link might be attracted to Malon when he grows up as well. IMO Zelda's interraction with Link seems more of a loving & caring affection more associated with an over protective mother or sister. The concrete evidence suggests that Link and Zelda are just best friends and nothing more.

Malon dreams of a knight in shining armor--that could be anyone, not just Link. And Link isn't a knight, he's a hero in green clothes. And how the heck can you use the Cremia hug as an indication of Link loving Malon? Cremia isn't even Malon.

...Or she's just grateful for him saving her and her father's ranch. I sure would be grateful if I were her.

Malon dreams of a knight in shining armor--that could be anyone, not just Link. And Link isn't a knight, he's a hero in green clothes. And how the heck can you use the Cremia hug as an indication of Link loving Malon? Cremia isn't even Malon.

Well at least Cremia looks like Malon so that means that he could only be physically attracted to redheads and NOT blonds. True that the knight in shining armor COULD be anyone. The fact of the matter is OOT/MM Link does not seem interested in romance whatsoever, only that love interests (Zelda, Malon, Ruto, Saria, Nabooru) seem interested in him to varying degrees. I personally can't picture Link with mommy Zelda, but I accept that their close friendship could become romance as adults in the Child Timeline. Since MM ends the Child Timeline, there is no proof on who Link falls in love with, Zelda and Malon included.

Cremia (as well as every other MM counterpart for the OoT characters) is just a lazy work from Nintendo. They didn't want to make new polygons, so they reused old ones. Nothing indicating Malink there.

Of course, this is assuming you were being serious.

Eh..don't be jealous because Link showed some physical attraction to a Malon clone. To bad Link and Zelda never got close like that.

MalonsLover- You have been warned multiple times, asked nicely, and a Mod has spoken to you about your behavior. This is a ZELINK forum. You are a guest here and in the minority; you are not allowed to bash Link and Zelda. Knock it off or get out of here.

I'm not bashing Link and Zelda What does me saying that they are just close friends relate to bashing??