The Case for Kingship: Part 1 and 2

Reading between the lines here would get you far. The Oedipal complex is more referring to your method of approaching this debate than to you personally. You are approaching this debate with the mindset that YOU want Malon, so therefore whatever the game may say otherwise is irrelevant. But we are mostly trying to attack the debate using what the games/makers/etc say and a bit of logic. The result is we are not having a very fulfilling debate.

Before you take this as an attack on you ( it's not ) the Oedipal complex is not necessarily discouraged by the game's concept. They want us to connect with Link and assume his person, and therefore they strive to create feeling towards different characters. They succeeded in making you love Malon, so therefore the hero of your game does too.
The problem is that as the series has become more and more detailed, they have started to "put words in his mouth" through his facial expressions and irrevocable actions. It is possible then to seperate Link from the player and say, "Link likes girl A more than girl B".
Both are valid reasons for preferring a pairing.

Your last post is repeating itself. OoT and TP are not the only games in the entire series either, just the most popular. I already explained why Link showed potential for leadership in TP particularily.

Thats cool. I understand now that it was not an attack on me personally. And as I said my preference for Malon over Zelda is my own and I admit 100% my reasons for LinkxMalon are theoretical not fact.

Back on topic: Again this is my THEORIES against Kingship.

Adult Timeline: To me its illogical that Zelda would train Link to be King since he is in no mental condition to endure such a thing, and Zelda is just fine in doing the royal duties without Link being a liability. I can only see Links life in Hyrule castle being similar to how it would probably be when he is a child, in simply following Zelda around everywhere she goes like a lost puppy dog. Only he would be a grown man and all he would be useful for is being an obedient sweet heart in like opening doors for Zelda and picking flowers for her in hopes that she will reward him with pecks on his cheek that will surely make him blush and sigh and have sweet and innocent warm and fuzzy feelings inside.

I can see them having alone moments in the throne room where Zelda will be sitting on her throne reviewing documents of legislation for an upcoming royal meeting. But instead of Link helping with useful opinions, he will more likely be just standing close to her quietly and just staring at her with his creepy looking gaze anxiously but patiently waiting for her to tell him what to do, such as maybe to get Zelda a glass of water or something. In the royal meetings Zelda will allow him to stand close to her as freakshow on display with a fairy hovering and whirling about him along with that funny blank look on his face of clueless oblivion for all the nobles & knights to observe in which IMO will be an awkward distraction. Zelda could probably solve this problem if she simply orders Link to stand in place in a corner facing the wall in the royal courtyard before an important royal meeting is about to start and after the royal meeting is concluded she will come back and get Link from the royal courtyard to give him permission to move again.

Now that I have given enough reasons why life in Hyrule Castle would be a strange and awkward existence for Link, IMO he is more suited in living a simpler farm life with Malon bossing him around in being more useful in doing simple manual labor while she handles the more complex things in living life on the ranch.

Child Timeline: This would more likely be the best bet for Kingship since in theory, Link having years of living in Hyrule Castle under Zeldas guidance and wisdom from childhood would give him an advantage in serving like a respectful and competent Hyrule Knight. But IMO in a theoretical marriage as a Prince/regent, Link would be best suited in being the brawn in handling military matters and envoy diplomatic missions while Zelda would be the brains in handling all the royal matters of important decision making and ordering people around. Maybe over the years of Zelda's reign she would entrust her husband with some royal responsibilities but IMO Hyrule would benefit more if she remains in charge and Link stays subservant to her in co-ruling the kingdom of Hyrule.

TP: This Link would be new to life in the Hyrule Court so it would take him awhile to get used to all the procedures and protocol. But unlike the Link in the OOT Adult Timeline, this Link would have the competence of learning as he goes and I believe he can serve in the Hyrule Court with dignity. But more than likely he will not be standing by Zelda's side during the royal meetings and instead will more likely be standing quietly somewhere in the background only quietly speaking when he is called upon to do so. But if by some miracle Zelda falls for Link and they do get married it makes more sense that Zelda keep him in his current position as resident Hero of Hyrule instead of inconvieniently training him to be a King when IMO Zelda should just maintain her royal duties as she always has. It just makes more logical sense IMO.

In conclusion, I still think Link is more suited to taking orders instead of being way out of character in giving them. And IMO I think its rather chauvinistic and insulting to Zeldas character that she needs an unqualified person like Link to help her co-rule when she more likely can handle all the royal duties on her own.

Frankly, I don't think it's worth discussing the Adult Timeline ( AT ). Zelda sent Link back, therefore closing off the possibility that he would ever rule beside her in that future. In our essay we merely used the unity of the Sages ( representing the different peoples ) he achieved with Zelda as an example of how their cooperation was good for Hyrule. In the child timeline you can also make the assumption he created loyalty ( and therefore unity ) based on the different tribe's reference to the previous Hero.

What needs to be said is that this grown up Link IS Adult OoT Link, plus another 7 real years to mature. He has all the experience of the AT Hero of Time, and even more. So comparing him to the fairly newly minted Hero in OoT, I can agree he is a better bet. Look for instance at the hero of LoZ/AoL. He became a hero as a child, and then grew up normally. It was only when he hit 16 that he was mature enough to fit the job of awakening the sleeping Zelda, and all that would come after. ( The prophecy hints at him being the next King. )
I don't think we've tried to imply that Link would somehow superceed Zelda. My vision is more of an equal-power situation where each supports the other in the areas where they are strongest. Link and Zelda already have unity..it's not going to be "I outrank YOU! No, I DO. *bickering ensues* In areas where Zelda is stronger, Link will obviously defer to her wisdom as he always has. The fact he wears the crown as King to her Queen would not be an issue.

He's not out of character, he's just never been given a chance to develop that aspect of his character. It's something you learn over time too.
It's not chauvinistic to imply that Zelda ( and Hyrule ) would benefit from her having a partner to lean on. Reality is that having someone to share the emotional load of anyone's life makes them stronger. That's the beauty of marriage.
In terms of strength we just seem to have different ideas of it. Her husband need not be a carbon copy of her ( Wise, versed in protocol, etc ) but rather she'd probably benefit more from having a husband who is more diverse. One who's skill set is different. Link has hands on experience with fighting strategy as well as with the people of her land. ( Zelda would likely lack practical experience with both )
Link's also brave, strong and steadfast in character, the perfect characteristics to back her up. Likewise, she's wise and internally strong, perfect to back him up.

I generally agree with your points on him needing more years to learn to become a King after a theoretical marriage. I still like the brawn and brains concept of co-rulership between LinkxZelda, but I think the OOT child timeline one would have the best advantage in adapting to a role of a King than the TP one. I'm not saying that its impossible in TP, just that TP Link has a lot more obstacles to overcome to

A. Have Zelda to fall in love with him in the firstplace.

B. His inexperience when compared to the OOT Link of the Child Timeline is more of a liability than an asset.

But I think your opinions are very reasonable without a doubt.

This is a Link x Zelda forum, correct?

And this particular part of the forum is for discussing why Link and Zelda have something deeper than friendship, am I right?

We do allow the members to ship other pairings beside Link x Zelda and that you are free to discuss the possibilities of other pairings, but I have to agree with Saami that this comment was rather rude. I don't like to quote the rules, but...

This was clearly an intentional comment to irritate the other members in the discussion, and I have been informed that this is not the only thread that you have been irritating other members with your posts.

Your theories are well-constructed and agreeable, but please tone it down a little, okay? None of this, "If you can't come up with a proper counter arguement, then don't respond please."

You have been warned.

Something that I find rather interesting are the genetic facial similarities between OoT Link and Zelda, and TP Zelda - this, IMO, gives another bit of evidence to the theory that OoT Link became king alongside Zelda.

Here is TP Zelda:



Here is OoT Adult Zelda:



And here is OoT Adult Link:



I can spot some facial similarities immediately, but what sticks out to me the most is TP Zelda's hairstyle from a back view - that looks oddly like an imitation of Link's traditional hat, IMO.

What can you guys see?

I can see the genetic resemblance between the two Zelda's for sure. But I've read theories that TP Zelda's more human like facial features suggests that OOT Zelda married a human like nobleman/prince and that the royal bloodline genetics over several generations branched out to produce the descendants of the more human like people of Ordon. All the while Link married Malon to produce the more Hylian looking TP Link. I'm not pushing for a LinkxMalon but more suggesting a theory I read in relating to TP Zelda's less Hylian facial features thats all.

TP Zelda ( and Link ) look more human because they were striving for a more realistic look. If Zelda had married a human, I'd expect other features of her to show this: she's obviously as Hylian as Link because of her ears. And she does look a bit like OoT Link. It's hard to nail down, but there's something in the face. Maybe the look of steely resolve that he had. OoT Zelda looked distinctly gentle, not cold like Link did. The boots and hair style are just icing on the cake.

Actually, if you want to see Malon's descendants, I'd suggest going to look at Talo and Malo. A quick look at Hyrule's population by people suggests this: that the Hylian race is mostly located in Hyrule central: Castletown. In contrast, outside of the centre of Hyrule is mostly normal humans ( defined as lacking the ears ) suggesting that humans migrated to Hyrule by coming from lands beyond Hyrule's borders. My suggestion is that Malon's descendants being remote farmers were more likely to meet with these humans, and intermarried explaining the waning Hylian blood in their bloodlines. Therefore human descendants: if you don't believe the resemblance, go compare Malo's art to child Malon's.

For TP Link and Zelda, again, the majority of the Hylian population is in Castletown. In order for them to keep the strong features of that race, their ancestors must have kept remarrying with other Hylians, which would likely keep them in Castletown. This also means that TP Link was likely a transplantee...his parents or him moving to Ordon at some point before the game.

We can get into oddities: Rusl and Colin for one. Human, yet resembling Link. They are either mere references or related to a descendant of Link who may have broke with the family to go adventuring: settling in Ordon eventually. I still put OoT Link as being based in Castletown eventually because of TP Link.

I'm not big on debating the issue on genetics as some people are. But your points are well written and they make sense for a OOT/MM LinkxZelda to happen. As for the issue of Kingship, well my only problem is that I can't picture Link being effective with administrative stuff like Zelda can with the TOW. I get this odd feeling that Link will bungle things to where Zelda has to come back from a diplomatic mission or whatever and set things right again. To me Link in charge as King is just a big comedic disaster waiting to happen, simply because doing things like executive and judicial decisions, conducting legislation on laws, and public speeches are things that seem way out of Links character Hero element, but they are obviously far more suited to Zelda's talents with the TOW.

Believe it or not, I can actually see OOT/MM Link maybe becoming a symbolic King representing the unity of Hyrule. It would be similar to the Kings/Emperors of ancient Japan who were rulers by name only as the real executive power rested on the warrior nobility. Only in Links case the real executive power lay with Zelda. So in essence Zelda would still be wearing the pants in the throne room and the marriage.

As for TP: Kingship is still highly unlikely and I provided enough info as to why already in this thread.

You don't need to picture Link being administrative: him and Zelda are a team. She's better suited to deal with this sort of thing anyways. All he'd need to do was be there to lend his support to her. She would do the same thing for him when military matters came up and he took the lead.

I dislike that "wearing the pants" phrase. Mainly because it seems to imply that somehow it's wrong for a woman to make the final call. If Zelda is the more experienced one, she should be the final call, regardless of her gender. Link seems happy enough in the games to take her advice.

No,no,no,no..I meant ZELDA would be wearing the pants. NOT LINK!!! Not in a million years!! And yes Link is more happier when taking orders from Zelda. I can't argue with that one. As I said before, I can see Link in OOT/MM would be more of a SYMBOLIC King with no administrative power whatsoever thank goodness. I agree with you 100% Zelda would make the final call on everything.

I was just reading this forum because I was bored, but at the end of it, felt the need to step in. I think that MalonsLover has a point and his original post had nothing wrong with it (it contained no bashing or displays of rude behaviour) but rather, it was a member of the forum whose tone became very hostile and aggresive when he expressed his differing opinion

Timelines apart, I don't think that the title 'King' suits Link. I don't see him sitting down and conducting audiences and such, it makes me cringe. He's more of an outdoor type, an adventurer (going on missions for her, being her knight and things like that) and if they do marry, Zelda will become the Queen Regnant while Link will be granted with the title of Prince Consort (or King Consort) and little will change; Zelda will still be the head honcho and will go about her business nornally, and the issue here is with Link, who will find himself with a few formal/ceremonial crap on his plate (which is part of being a King/Prince Consort and of course, he will learn about that).

But I think that they'd make a great pair like that
Zelda has been living in a castle as a princess all her life, while Link was the guy who travelled the land and seen all the things firsthand. I can see Zelda proposing a plan and Link giving his insights and tweaking it a bit. Plus having a Prince who is more in touch with the people will probably make them popular.

Anyway, that's my interpretation.

I have never thought that, if he became king, Link would spend his time conducting audiences. I'd see him taking an active interest in the army, spending a lot of time outdoors with the generals, and I could see him going on plenty of diplomatic missions to other areas of Hyrule--being king certainly wouldn't mean he'd have to be shut up in the castle all the time. Considering how he seems to give his all to everything he does, I'd hardly imagine him leaving all the important duties to Zelda; he'd jump in headfirst and find out in what areas he could contribute to the country, and then he'd focus his energy on those. Link and Zelda might have different specialties, but as rulers I'd see them very much as equals.

this is a good thing you did. Not only did you state your opinion but you backed it up by every zelda game. I am gratful you took the time to do this.