The Case for Kingship: Part 1 and 2

I don't have it all wrong. You have said several times in other threads that Link is a doormat, that he is mentally incapable, that he is soft and shy. That's what I have basically stated in the "devil's advocate" post above.

I think I'm starting to get the picture, and the name of this picture is the Oedipal complex. Google it.

Well yes he is a doormat and he is soft and shy, but I never said that he can't do farming as you wrongfully implied.

I beg to differ, I don't think you are getting my point: if Link were to be as mentally incapacitated as you have said multiple times, then he would be a burden to anyone, let alone a busy farm. Ingo, Talon and Malon don't have second jobs - they rely on the farm's proceeds to be able to eat. Link would simply be as good as a sack of garbage to them - he wouldn't be able to help because he would trampled by the horses and cows in his stupidity, the chickens would peck him to death because he would be too stupid not to know to leave them alone, and Link would just be another mouth to feed. Link would be a liablity, not an asset to any person trying to take care of him.

The case is not remotely closed. You cannot prove Link is not good at giving orders: we've just never been given the chance to see it happen. Or maybe we have in small scale...he orders Medli and Makar around successfully.

Part 2 already covered this exact argument in essence: "Link is just a farm/forest boy".
The point of that was that Link has all the attributes to make him a fantastic leader and he's going to attract followers naturally. ( Like the Ordon kids looking up to him ) He just needs the chance to prove it.

I beg to differ, I don't think you are getting my point: if Link were to be as mentally incapacitated as you have said multiple times, then he would be a burden to anyone, let alone a busy farm. Ingo, Talon and Malon don't have second jobs - they rely on the farm's proceeds to be able to eat. Link would simply be as good as a sack of garbage to them - he wouldn't be able to help because he would trampled by the horses and cows in his stupidity, the chickens would peck him to death because he would be too stupid not to know to leave them alone, and Link would just be another mouth to feed. Link would be a liablity, not an asset to any person trying to take care of him.

Your arguement in comparing simple farm life to the more complex Hyrule Court life baffles me.

TO GILDERPILOT: I can prove that Link is not good in giving orders. Who the heck would take orders from someone that is proven to be nothing more than an obedient doormat that can barely verbally communicate with other people?? I sure wouldn't. I would just laugh at Link and tell him to shut up.

I want to know: where are you getting the impression that Link is a doormat? You have offered no evidence to support your statement in this regard, only your feelings. Everybody has feelings about one thing or another in Zelda, but it isn't enough to bring a case around.

Your insistence that Link is a mentally retarded doormat baffles me as well. Again, I'm seeing the Oedipal complex coming into play here. And how is farm life any less complex than a regular court? Running a farm with all it's bank accounts, animals that need feeding and water, animals that need shelter from the elements, etc is just like running a full-scale court, only on smaller proportions.

Once again, the Oedipal complex is here is extremely strong. And where is he "proven" to be an obedient doormat? Is it because he does things that are asked of him? He has a choice to do those things or not - the player makes that decision for him. But it seems to me that the Oedipal complex is projecting a negative image on Link that no one else here is getting.

I actually live in a rural area and I ACTUALLY DO FARMWORK part time. But does that mean I can be the president of the USA and run the country?? I rest my case

The in game evidence that Link is a doormat is all over OOT,MM and TP. As a matter of fact, you can't complete the games unless you are a submissive doormat. Link has choices??? Have you ever even played OOT, MM or TP BTW??

You are becoming rude again, MalonsLover. If our evidence/interpretations/defense upsets you, then chill out before you do any posting.

You are missing my points entirely. I work/live on a farm full-time, run it's accounts, put up fencing, feed and water the animals, find feed for the animals, build shelter for the animals, keep the equipment up to date and repaired, and protect them from predators. All that to say that running a farm is exactly like running the kingdom of Hyrule - only without the bureaucracy and on a smaller scale . And who is to say that I can't become President of the US? What's to keep me from it?

That is your Oedipally influenced interpretation. Because Link is the "link" between the player and a fantasy adventure in Hyrule, he is a doormat? Link is supposed to virtually be the extension of the player. Freedom of choice is the player's. Again, Link is the extension of the player while the player is playing the game.

That's not proof! It's your selectively chosen opinion that ignores real facts. You have an opinion and that's great, but stop calling it fact.
Link CAN talk for one despite your assertions otherwise. Go and complete the Swamp Temple in MM and listen to the Deku Princess's conversation with Link: she's responding to what he's telling her. You can see Link moving his mouth and apparently talking to Ilia as they walk to meet Bo in TP...he's carrying on a conversation with her.

Okay...just think about this in real life for a second: that's what we've mostly tried to do with our article. You'd truly laugh at a real general or King when he made a speech? You'd find yourself alone in that attribute. The people of Hyrule likely have huge respect for him and even if not, they'd still put on the face. There are real royals who have blundered and made ungraceful statements, yet their people would defend them in an instant.
It's more a matter of respecting the title than the person anyways. You show honor because they are the Queen for instance, not because they are Queen "so and so".

I still have yet to read a reasonable and convincing arguement on why and how Link would be qualified to be King in the Adult Timeline or TP. So far its just typical Zelinker idealistic nonsense IMO. And I still have my doubts on the possibility of Kingship in the Child Timeline, but I will admit that would be Links best bet for it to maybe happen. So I will just leave it at that.

To Love of Zelda: If you do become president one day, then I will change my mind. As for your persistently annoying Oedipus complex reference, I love my father thank you very much, and I have no desire to kill him.

The convincing argument is here if you will read it and accept our viewpoints/interpretations/evidence for what they are and choose to agree to disagree with us.

Again, you ignore the point and refuse to read between the lines of what I'm saying. I don't care how you feel about your actual father or mother. When I say that you have the Oedipus complex as far as your views on Link and Malon, I am saying that your comments reflect a subconscious desire to supersede who you perceive Link to be and become Malon's lover (no pun intended). You have said this in another thread as well, I believe. You say that you must go and rescue Malon and Epona from Ingo to continue with the game, that you don't feel good if you don't. But the fact of the matter is that the game can be continued without ever setting food in Lon Lon Ranch, as someone else has commented before. You do, however, need Zelda/Sheik to continue to many points throughout the game.

Haven't I already made it clear that I do disagree with your points?? And I have never debated that Zelda is the main heroine and Malon is a secondary character in the game. I think I have already made it clear that my personal preference of empathy for Malon over Zelda is my own and my own only.

Back on Topic: If you can't come up with a proper counter arguement to my opinion that I believe Link being a subservant hero to Zelda as Queen is more beneficial to Hyrule instead of Zelda being subservant to Link as King, then don't respond please. Stick to the topic at hand instead of being mad that I don't share the same opinion as you do. (Blows you a kiss)

Forgive the off topicness. And mods feel free to delete if this is out of line. But I find that last part of your post horridly abrasive and rude. It was uncalled for, to be quite honest.

So Love of Zelda constantly making personal attacks on me in saying that I have an Oedipus complex, implying that I want to kill my father to have sex with my mother is not considered rude?? No offense Saami, but your double standard hypocrisy is very puzzling to me right now.

To Love of Zelda: I understand now that you were not intentionally implying that I want to kill my father to be with my mother, but for a long while I thought that was the case. But to associate my liking of Malon to a psycological quirk is a little rude but I'm not offended. I'm just confused right now with Saami thinking that a harmless playful gesture in blowing you a kiss is rude but its perfectly OK for you to imply that I'm a little crazy in the head for prefering Malon over Zelda. (Scratches head.)

Back on Topic: IMO Link is better suited in taking orders than giving them, and there is more than enough evidence in OOT and TP to support this.