"Lack Of Development", On Zelda and Ganondorf (TP)

This entry is loaded with spoilers (what did you expect? It's about Twilight Princess), so read on at your own risk.

I've been hearing that there's a "lack of development" on Zelda and Ganondorf's part.

Well, I'd like to disagree.

In the past, Zelda was just a princess. She appeared, gave you information, got kidnapped/was already kidnapped from the start, then you saved her, and that was it. That's still the general concept, too...

But Princess Zelda has been growing more and more into her own character than just being the "damsel in distress." She's no longer just another girl... she has literally become the princess that earns the respect she so deserves. I love her character, and with good reason, too!

In Ocarina of Time, Zelda was young, and although she was the bearer of the Triforce of Wisdom, she was overcome with Naivety, which most youth are. She was a believable human being (as much as a Hylian can be human, anyway), because she was flawed. She climbed over this obstacle, fixed her mistakes to the best of her ability, and this is what makes her so admirable as a character.

In Twilight Princess, Zelda was older, and from this I can assume she was wiser. That doesn't mean she's perfect, however, and she did fall into the hands of evil again (as she has many times). But through this, what I noticed, and absolutely loved about TP Zelda, was that she was a very strong figure. She stood up to the face of evil, and though she could not rid her kingdom of it, she did her best to choose what would most likely guarantee the safety of her people. She basically put her own life on the line for them, and that's pretty damn noble if you ask me.

Not only that, she went against her own safety (imagine what the villains would have done had they known she conspired against them behind their backs!) and aided Link and Midna on their quest to save Hyrule.

So here we have a princess who saved the kingdom not only once, but twice. She is as much a hero as Link is in that sense.

And lest you forget, Zelda fought, side by side, with Link in the battle of the big three, and that, in itself, is very brave of her. Zelda is the ultimate princess in Twilight Princess, and I loved every bit of her.

That, and she was freaking gorgeous. XD

Now, as for Mister Angry Piggy, he's changed quite a bit, too! He's gone from pig-thing to Demonic-Psychopath... and that's a huge step up for a villain!

Ganondorf, in Ocarina of Time, was very much involved from the beginning of the game. We knew who he was, how he was involved, and why he needed a good spanking. He was the type of villain who did everything himself, because he's just that badass.

In Twilight Princess, however, he was very "behind the scenes." It seems like he didn't do much because of this... but in truth, he was still the mastermind of every bit of chaos that wreaked over Hyrule. He was vengeful, and devious-- he even took an accomplice to do his bidding, and in some cases, this can be considered even more evil, for he had abandoned said person for his own goal. He never cared for anyone else but himself to begin with.

He proclaimed himself a god, and made fake agreements for his own benefit. He is a selfish, lying, beast. Gee, doesn't this sound familiar? If you ask me, Ganondorf is nearly the equivalent to Satan in Hyrule.

It was quite obvious that Ganondorf had a grudge against Hyrule (when has he not?), too. So I would dare to assume from this, then, that Ganondorf has indeed carried over from his past appearances, and has, once again, brought along his foolish desire and malice over time and dimensions.

Unlike Ganondorf from The Wind Waker who was wise with age, this ganondorf was still a fool blinded, and was more greedy, powerul, and full of hatred than his-self in Ocarina of time.

I'd much rather meet Ganondorf from Ocarina of Time, than with Ganondorf from Twilight Princess. TP Ganondorf seemed to reek with anger, and was definitely much, much scarier, if you ask me.

If Ganondorf lacked anything, it was a flaw (besides being so evil, he was consumed by it-- as he always is). But this is who he is. He was still, and will always be, the persona of evil.


They both had little screen-time, yes... but from the details you can gather from the story, and the bit you can grasp from their actual appearances, there's a lot there. I thought they were both amazing characters.

What are your thoughts?

My thoughts? Is that I agree with everything you say. The way you explain things really knocks some sense into me too.

I guess I had no right to put Ganondorf down at all. TT_TT When I think about it, he really has developed into his own unique character, as well as Zelda. Link isn't the lifeless drone he use to be. Twilight Princes really did give her sometihng called... oh, personality. Hah.

The only thing running around in my thoughts as i read this was "donkey kong!" because Mario and Peach weren't even Mario and peach yet. It was some guy trying to save his girlfriend from this giant monkey thing. What do we get from it? A plumber, a giant ape, a green dinosaur, mushroom people, and a princess that for some reason, everybody loves!! I know I do.

That's development.

Mario jumping over barrels = Donkey with his own game launching from barrels. Along with race karts.

I was one of those people who was upset with the lack of screen-time and interactions between Zelda, Ganondorf, and Link. I was also really disappointed with the lack of Triforce-Legend (because I've become so accustomed to having Zelda plots generally revolve around it). I was pessimistic in my first play through of Twilight Princess.

But after a while, I figured I'd play again, and this time pay more attention to what was there, rather than what was not. After all, Nintendo slaved away for three years as much as I waited. So, playing it through with optimism a second time really did help. It literally "opened my eyes" to the things I practically ignored before.

Development is there, definitely, and you'd be a fool to miss it (like I was).

Besides, gaming industries ARE changing over-time, like you said Hylia Princess. We went from 2-D characters with limited speech to 3-D characters with personalities. That, my friend, is a big, big jump, and is development indeed!

(Let this thread be revived!)

Great analysis, Saphine!

I agree with everything you said as well. I'm a bit iffy on the Zelda part, but the Ganon part was very kosher. My thoughts are just it's probably on how you look at it.

You have gone alot into the backstories of other games and using that information and incorperated it into TP. The arguement you're setting, "Lack of Development" can be seen as in TP alone, because of another arguement in the Zelda universe, on how Link and Zelda are incarnations (or reincarnations, whatever you feel is your preferred option) of each other.

The "Lack of Development" in TP is how does she get into that noble princess your saying. Character Development is most probably defined as growth or the process of change throughout the story (as you have said). However, with the arguement that she is not the same Zelda, we can assume that she didn't learn from her naive self back in OOT.

I was also sad that she didn't get much screentime as well, but because of it dosen't really show on how she got so admirable in TP. It was like in her nature she was just like that, not really showing much growth on her imperial personality. But that's what we love about her anyways, because she's always pertaining to a sense to be so selfless and thoughful of others.

Well, if we were to go by game alone, not many Zelda's have development. There really isn't enough room or time for a character to truly develop in the short time-span Zelda games allow. Given, she had more of a role in OoT and WW, she had more of a chance to grow... but if you look at the fine lining in TP, she does have a solid character, be it a little less than the former games. I still stand to what I said, and I think Princess Zelda is an amazing character in Twilight Princess, despite what others say.

I do agree with you, though, that we weren't able to see said development taking place (and in that sense, I suppose it wasn't development, but her just being what she was to begin with). Hmm, well stated. Nevertheless, her over-all character in the series has developed (incarnation, reincarnation, and all that bull aside XD). That's enough for now (for me).

Of course, that's just my opinion. :3

Wow, that's a seriously great, well thought out argument, Saphine, and I must agree with you in general.

Just because a character doesn't recieve a lot of screen time does not mean they have a 'lack of development.' If anything, I think Zelda and Ganny had a whole heck lot more personality than some of the characters we see tons of. *coughIlia/Maloncough*

I think Zelda's character has grown so much from her past games, and I simply loved it. This game does a lot to show that Zelda struggles just like all the other characters, and has to take a lot of pain on herself to spare them. We see her as a wise leader who takes the course that will best protect her people. Zelda is also very compassionate towards her people in general, and to Midna and Link. Her selflessness in helping Midna was simply staggering, and it honestly made me cry. How can a character that brings me to tears be under developed? Honestly! I was disapointed with her lack of screen time, but sadly, that can't be helped. It can't be denied though, that when she was on screen she captured attention completely!

Ganny. . . in this game, he was not in the spotlight much, but once he stepped out of those shadows and into center stage, he was completely horrifying! He was angered, ruthless, and completely evil- a wonderful villian, IMO. The fact that he used Zant as a puppet only made him even more diabolical- it shows he will use anyone and anything to accomplish his goals, and when they are no more use to him they will be cast aside.

My main complaint is that we didn't get much of the Triforce story, which would have perhaps added more character development to Zelda and Ganny, but meh, what can you do?

The only thing that was "lacking" was screen time... Those two characters were powerful in my opinion.

Zelda: In the beginning, when you first meet her as a wolf, I could sense worry, and regret coming from her. As the game progressed I could gradually see those feelings vanish as they turned to hopefulness and compassion as she helped Midna. I don't think she would have helped her in the beginning of the game. Then of course at the end, you can see that she's gained some sort of experience and even the knowledgable Princess Zelda has gained even more knowledge and appreciation for the Twili and the Twilight Realm.

Ganondorf: THIS MAN WAS SINISTER. O_O He was much more evil in this game than in the other ones! First in the flashback, he was just being petty and selfish as any other bandit/thief would be... (but of course he still had his dark ambitions). But after the sages sealed him, that is when he started to feed on revenge. Then it was the revenge that drove him and he eventually went insane by it, to the point where it had no purpose anymore.

Development was pretty hard to see considering that they had so little time. But compared to other games, they definately have more character. Weak analysis, but hey, it's my opinion.

Yes, I was a bit upset by the lack of the triforce legend, as well... but I think the reason for that is because the game mainly focused around Midna and the Twilight Realm. So the triforce only needed to be mentioned for a second... the more important part for that was how the three sorcerers... (or whatever they were), were banished. That's what made Twilight Princess different from the other games.

OOOHHH YEAH... *coughIliadidn'tdomuchcough* ahem... Other than... what... take Link's (it was Link's!) horse without permission all the time? And just have some sort of reference to the village... Okay, I better stop. ^^;

While I'm glad that you guys seemingly agree with what I had to say, I didn't make my argument supporting the characters of Zelda and Ganondorf to belittle the rest. It was not my intention to rouse hate against the minor characters. In fact, I love the minor characters as much as the major ones, and among those characters are Malon and Ilia.

A lot of the way we see things is a matter of interpretation. Everything I've said about Zelda and Ganondorf's development in my first post can be disagreed with -- all it takes is for someone to read the fine lines differently from the way I do. So you may disagree with what I'm about to say as you please, I just hope people have an open mind about these things. There are so many opinions to bear, so it would be a shame to stick to one and throw out the other, especially when you can come to an even greater conclusion in light of both.

In support for minor characters, I'll say that they do, too, have a lot of personality. Perhaps their personal tales might not be as much importance to the main story as some other characters, but that does not mean that their characters are completely bland and unimportant.

I think without minor characters, Hyrule would be boring. If there was only Zelda, Ganondrof, and Link, the games would fall flat. Without the little people in the little towns, we probably won't be able to see why Zelda or Link fight so desperately. In the end, saving the kingdom is what their motive is, and what would a kingdom be if it had none of the citizens within? I love Zelda because she loves her people, and I love Link because he cares for his world.

Think of Vaati, Marin (both of which could easily be considered major roles), Saria, Nabooru, Ruto, Impa, Happy Mask Sales Man, Kafei, Skull Kid, Tingle...

Considering how Twilight Princess wasn't necessarily ALL about Link/Zelda/Ganondorf, but Midna and Zant (but mostly Midna), I can understand why Zelda and Ganondorf's screentime was so limited. Midna is the Twilight Princess and this is her story.

But even then, Zelda's personality and Ganondorf's personalities all seem well defined and offer enough for us to draw conclusions off of.

Personally, I think it's refreshing to have the focus shift from just Link and Zelda vs. Ganondorf and his evil hordes and the eternal struggle for the Triforce. Sure Ganondorf was the mastermind in the end, but he would've been stuck in the Twilight World had not Zant been so eager to take the throne from Midna. And Link wouldn't have had a clue on what to do about the twilight if Midna hadn't been around. I mean, I doubt the shadow beasts would've told Link what was going on.

lol, now thats a funny image. 'Hey, person-we-just-kidnapped-and-tried-to-turn-into-a-spirit, just thought we'd let you know how this world works. Pretty much, by some weird twist of fate, you're a wolf now. Learn to deal with it, and go save Hyrule. That's about it. Now, excuse us while we try to kill you'.

All jokes aside, I don't think Ganondorf and Zelda were underdeveloped - they were developed enough for the roles they played. Like others have said, the main focus of the story was Midna and Zant, with Zelda and Ganondorf the 'secondary characters'. And if you compare the two to the other games they have been in, they have developed a lot further - Ganondorf has grown more cunning (using actually effective minions instead of doing everything himself), and Zelda has grown more mature (which makes sense, as I believe she is usually a child in the games), and helps out every way she can (even giving away her soul (or whatever it was) to Midna). She seems more regal and Princess-y to me in this game (and she's so pretty too, damn her.....lol).

So yeah, when you look at Zelda and Ganondrof in relation to their roles in the game, and in relation to their characters in other games, they are quite developed in Twilight Princess.

Considering what the phrase entails, I must disagree with most and say that Ganondorf and Zelda DO lack development in Twilight Princess.

There is a difference between arguing the strength of a character and arguing his/her development. Zelda is noble and wise and mature - these are qualities consistent to her persona throughout the game. However, she doesn't change or grow. Giving her soul to Midna might seem as some 'key point' to the development of her character, but truth is that Zelda's initial nature allowed for this to happen. Ganondorf, on the other hand, is just as much a mastermind as he has ever been, just as much a bad guy. In contrast, Zelda in OOT underwent development. She was child princess with a bad case of rash precocity. She became a warrior and a guide and a noble woman.

Considering that TP is not a Triforce-centered game, the lack of development isn't bad - it's natural. You can't have twenty well-developed characters per game, you need to administer development according to what plot and entertainment elements demand. Ultimately, TP was Midna's moment to shine.

I would have liked for Midna and Zelda's temporary bond to have been further explored. It would have given an amazing depth of character to both women to see Midna discuss her emotions and concerns with someone who could talk back properly.

Ooh, it's been a while since I came here, hahaha.

Wow, Kitty_Savior. That's very well put, and now that you mention it, I think that makes a great deal of sense as opposed to what I may have been saying myself. Hahaha! D: How sad.

I think that I may have been arguing a different thing than what I intended. Development would be more of a growth in ones character in game, wouldn't it? Which, in terms of TP, there was very little due to little screen time. Hmm. Well, we can only hope that there is more depth and character interactions for these two in the future.

Well, as foolish as this might seem, at least I was able to argue the strength of our beloved characters ;D Thank you for the clarification, haha.