Zelda vs Malon, Comparing the two

I think they both have more dignity than that.

Agreed.

Frankly, I've always felt Malon is more likely to be forward if she likes a guy, and seems generally flirtacious in manner..but she'd never do that.

Cremia and Romani, while different people, did take after Malon in some ways, and both were what I'd consider aggressive in going after what they want guy-wise. But despite her documented angst over wanting Kafei, Cremia never stepped in and tried to actually take Kafei away from Anju.

Zelda on the other hand, she seems more concerned with running her country than chasing after a guy. I think she'd be sincere if she loved one ( beginning of MM ) but she wouldn't let her personal feelings stop her from doing her duty.

To respond to what Kitty-Savior said:

I just like to think Link is better than to run into the arms of another woman at the first sign of difficulty in achieving Zelda. If he did, he would break Zelda's heart as well as cheat the other woman from being first in his heart. Overall, I think Zelda's got a really bad deal in life...sure she's got wealth and power..but her position will determine everything for her...it strikes me as a loveless and freedom-less life.

Malon on the other hand..she has everything. Freedom, ability to seek and live out true love, she can follow her heart.

I know it's possible to love again...but it's never the same. Especially if the first love is still alive. Many of the Zelda games end on a cheerful and happy note..I have trouble reconciling that hopeful feeling with future doom and gloom for the two heroes. Even MM left him galloping seemingly happy ( or at least healed ) back to Hyrule.

Also, I think I may be approaching this from a different point of view: what's best for the girls. It may the result of being a girl..I can empathisize with them better.

I agree with the freedom thing... Malon is lucky in that sense. While she may be hard working and have responsibilities, she also has a ranch hand and a father to help her out, so she's going to have some free time. She has more to pick from, and social skills to help her with that. I think she'd be a good match for Link, but an even better match for somebody else.... like maybe a dark-skinned, sexy half-Gerudo (hey, the Gerudo women come to Hyrule for boyfriends... so why not?) who'd be able to woo her with some skills of badassery similar to Link's, but he'd be more flirtatious and probably more assertive with affection and behavior. But that's just me... I like to write, what can I say? DX

Zelda, on the other hand, isn't quite free to go out whenever she wants. Sure, when she becomes absolute ruler of Hyrule and inherits the throne she'll be able to venture out more, but it won't be the same freedom has. I guess that's part of what makes Link x Zelda appealing... it's like, Hero x Princess in the fairytale should-be's, but at the same time, there's always something in the way preventing them from being together (except in AoL where they DO marry).

[QUOTE=gliderpilotgirl,Feb 12 2008, 05:53 PM] [QUOTE=Saami,Feb 12 2008, 03:54 PM] [QUOTE=Hylian Sword Master,Feb 12 2008, 08:44 AM] Malon is a farm girl who has a serious crush on Link. Zelda is a princess who has a serious crush on Link. What is there to compare. They both havethe same hobby (getting Link to notice them) and the same occupation (fighting and pulling each others hair over Link) As I said not much to compare. [/QUOTE]
I think they both have more dignity than that. [/QUOTE]
Agreed.

Frankly, I've always felt Malon is more likely to be forward if she likes a guy, and seems generally flirtacious in manner..but she'd never do that.

Cremia and Romani, while different people, did take after Malon in some ways, and both were what I'd consider aggressive in going after what they want guy-wise. But despite her documented angst over wanting Kafei, Cremia never stepped in and tried to actually take Kafei away from Anju.

Zelda on the other hand, she seems more concerned with running her country than chasing after a guy. I think she'd be sincere if she loved one ( beginning of MM ) but she wouldn't let her personal feelings stop her from doing her duty.
[/QUOTE]

I just like to think Link is better than to run into the arms of another woman at the first sign of difficulty in achieving Zelda. If he did, he would break Zelda's heart as well as cheat the other woman from being first in his heart. Overall, I think Zelda's got a really bad deal in life...sure she's got wealth and power..but her position will determine everything for her...it strikes me as a loveless and freedom-less life.

Malon on the other hand..she has everything. Freedom, ability to seek and live out true love, she can follow her heart.

I know it's possible to love again...but it's never the same. Especially if the first love is still alive. Many of the Zelda games end on a cheerful and happy note..I have trouble reconciling that hopeful feeling with future doom and gloom for the two heroes. Even MM left him galloping seemingly happy ( or at least healed ) back to Hyrule.

Also, I think I may be approaching this from a different point of view: what's best for the girls. It may the result of being a girl..I can empathisize with them better. [/QUOTE]
Look, I'm not saying I understand the female species, even if I am one or not, but I mean it is a possibility. If the opposition gets too rough that is. All people male or female will get to that level that self-same male or female gets it into their head its important enough. Or maybe you're right, and they'll decide having a cold eyed staring contest over Link's head is good enough for them. With many rematches of course.

Time to revive this as the Malon thread has kind of died at the moment, and more debate has given me more ideas to contrast them.

Okay, so something that's really hit me lately? Malon is a "before" girl, and Zelda is an "after".

In that Malon herself represents the carefree life, the small, the personal, the self-orientated lifestyle. I'm not putting her down in these, as she undoubtably cares about the issues of her own world...just this characterizes her: everything she says relates to her world. She's not so different from Zelda in this aspect, just the scale of concern is smaller. So all this is pretty much where Link starts out: he's living an idyllic and peaceful life, concerned about his small life.

Zelda in contrast is "after". She represents the large, the whole, and the self-less mindset: to her, everything is greater than her own personal needs. Reading through her text, almost every remark is in relation to another person or people or how they are affected. Link throughout his adventure has developed this as well, "he" no longer matters in the face of "everyone". I can't see any other way he could so selflessly risk his life so many times.

Another thing I have noticed with them is a difference in attitude.

With Malon, I see resignation. She waits for someone to solve her problems for her, and until then, she will grin and bear it, but go no furthur. OoT, FSA, MC, and MM to an extent all fit these...she acts as if she is unable to change her circumstance herself. When Link comes in, she will either let him solve her problem or solve it with his aid, only if he helps. ( MM )

With Zelda, I see a refusal to give up. She often is forced to wait for Link's talent to complete her goal, but she takes steps on her own to challenge the evil herself without his aid. In LoZ, she's already split the Triforce up to hide it from Ganon. In OoT, she's spying on Ganondorf, and later becomes Sheik to help her people, refusing to give up although Link may not return. In WW, she's off distracting the Helmaroc King to ensure Link can make it the fortress, and takes up a bow in the end to take down Ganondorf, although Link must give the final blow.
TP I feel took her down an unexplored path and gave her traditional role to Midna for the first part. Midna was the one who never gave up, and later in the game Zelda would rise to this and give her life.

One final thing is a difference in person/looks. I hate to bring looks into it, but it's part of the image.

I see Malon as cute, cheeky and spunky...very pretty: bright eyes and hair and she gives off a bright spirit. But it's skin deep...she fades as things get rough.

In contrast I see Zelda as more elegant and classically beautiful, but a great deal of it comes from within: I loved that about TP...she practically glowed, and you knew it came from her kind heart. I see her as the kind that gets more beautiful with age and difficulty...she shines when her heart gets the opportunity to.

Obviously my views may be swayed by the fact I like Zelda more than Malon, but I feel Malon really comes out as a fundamentally different type of girl than Zelda.

This wasn't much of a debate before I got here, was it?

I don't see how having a bright smile and being pretty would make a person shallow, especially Malon. The way she was brought up, I doubt she had time to worry about being pretty. I just don't quite understand how having a bright smile equates being shallow. I'd think seeing a bright smile after Ganondorf became the evil king would be refreshing. At that time, there just wasn't much to smile about. And seeing a bright and cheerful smile among all the gloomy faces would be refreshing.

The fact that she chose to stand by her home, even though she had means and probably plenty of opportunities to leave, shows great strength. She chose to remain at her home though she knew her power would be limited to make sure the ranch stayed afloat. I don't think she would be able to live with herself if she just walked away and knew that Ingo could destroy everything she and her father worked so hard to accomplish. That just doesn't seem like her. Aside from that, I think the lyrics for "Epona's Song" helps give an insight into her personality. Her mother may have wrote the song, but Malon gave it life and personality.

I believe Malon did everything she knew how to ensure the safety of her home and the horses and animals that she loved so dearly. Just because she did not actively fight doesn't necessarily mean she lacked any strength as a person.

And something I find interesting is the fact that OoT Malon never asked for Link's help. She simply stated that there was nothing she could do. That does not mean that she was never going to do anything. I took it as at the moment the available options did not afford her the opportunity to actually do anything that would effectively save her home.

With all of that said, why did Zelda not fight? She waited for Link to come and save her kingdom just like you say Malon waited. She knew the sages needed to be awakened. Why did she not go wake them? She was dressed as Sheik and was effectively under Ganondorf's radar as opposed to Link since Ganondorf said he was aware of everything Link did. Fighting wasn't foreign to Zelda either as shown when Bongo Bongo escaped from the well, she threw her hands up, ready to fight. If I remember correctly (mind you it's been a while since I've played this game), it was never explicitly stated that Link was the only one in the world who could awaken the sages. As their leader, I would think Zelda held some sort of power to do so.

I'm just curious as to why Zelda's waiting for Link to save her kingdom when she had means to do so on her own was more noble and Malon's accepting Link's help (especially when she did not ask him to help her) makes her shallow and unable to change her situation?

It's more her personality and behavior that I think makes her shallow, I was just using her looks as part of a statement. It's more an overall impression: she's too extroverted and seemingly friendly, yet seems to lose all that backbone when trouble comes. She's practically unrecognizable. I've brought the point up: she couldn't even remember who Link was, when all the other girls did..that speaks of not really knowing him to begin with. A shallow connection.

It doesn't take much strength to stay where you've started. Familiar surroundings, what she knows. Her reluctance to leave could also indicate she didn't have the courage to. We instead find her staring at her feet with a bucket in her hands bemoaning her circumstances...something you never see of Zelda. What does Zelda do instead? Gives up her femininity and lifestyle to go on the run to continue her work, regardless of the fact if she was caught, she'd likely be killed.

How do you know she didn't fight? I doubt Sheik is portrayed as a fighter for show. She managed to get Ruto out from under the ice on her own, and stood between Link and the Shadow Spirit. That's raw courage, right there.

Sheik may have been under the radar, but if she DID go into a temple, she'd instantly have Ganondorf's attention: he was looking for Zelda. That's a bad thing, as the more important priority for her was keeping the Triforce of Wisdom safe. Besides, she doesn't have the Master Sword, which she would have needed: she had no choice but to wait for him, so she didn't have the means: The Master Sword was necessary to challenge Ganondorf and only Link could wield it.

Why would she leave when she knew that her home would fall apart? That's like Zelda turning her back on Hyrule when Ganondorf became king. Aside from that, who's to say the transition from her father's ownership to Ingo's was anything but civil? Ganondorf, a person who is anything BUT peaceful, took the ranch from her father and handed it to a person who already had a distaste for Talon. And I think it safe to assume this happened while Malon was still a child. (I'm no psychology expert, which is why I asked my friend who is a psychology major). Most of what he said is unlikely to happen in the LoZ world. Though he did mention that there was a possibility of her becoming self reliant and reclusive (he also mentioned gender confusion, and since Zelda is in a similar situation, I find it interesting now that she became Sheik), which could explain why she never asked Link for his help. Perhaps she thought she didn't need his help. Perhaps she believed she could fix the situation herself.

And if that wasn't the case, if Malon had left, I think I wouldn't respect her character near as much as I do now. As a matter of fact, I don't think I would like her very much at all.

Crap, lost my thought. I've got more to say. I just can't remember what it is right now.

It's not the act that really bothers me but her attitude. She acts defeated, when despite how much more proportionally worse Zelda's situation is, you never get that vibe from her. You know she hasn't lost hope, with Malon it's almost like her message is: " I give up. I'm just going to live with this because there's nothing I can do."

That attitude IMO, is dangerous, especially to a guy like Link, who is persistence itself. While the message from Malon is: " I can't change life" until Link comes in and it dawns on her, the message Zelda radiates is: "No matter what, I CAN make a difference".
I don't think it occurred to Malon to ask for help because she didn't think it could be done.

It's funny, because I think those words apply more to Zelda, or what could have happened to her. She seemed closer to those attributes than the very social Malon. Gender confusion though? I'm sure the Sheik-is-a-guy advocates would love that, but Zelda was already a tomboy to begin with, I don't think she ever actually thought she was a man.

I don't have much respect for her to begin with, and it has to do with her being the type of girl who's pointed out to be thinking of knights-in-shining-armor and horses rather than saving the world. As a grown up she's better, but I still think Saria, Ruto and Zelda make her look small, they are concerned for all of Hyrule, while it's just a small piece for Malon.

I'm torn...because if she had left, Ingo would have been on his own and I'm of the opinion he would have failed. Ganondorf's hand may have come down to smite him for that. I think Malon was being an "enabler" if you are familiar with the term.
But if she left, what she loved would suffer...she was between a rock and a hard place.

In my experience in debating, sometimes waiting for a great thought is a good idea: I'm sure you'll come up with something.

Hey, I'm really enjoying this Zelda/Zelink vs. Malon/Malink debate; it's really fun to read about. I really don't have anything to add (except that I'm on the Zelda/Zelink side of the debate), so I'll just go back to reading posts about the debate.

Well I'm glad it's interesting. Just hope I've shown that all us Malinkers are not crazy. At least I'm not. And I hope I can keep up.

Oh, I know not all Malinkers are crazy (in fact, I've seen some rabid Zelinkers in my day). But you get your crazy shippers in every ship.

x 2...I'm glad someone is enjoying reading it. Despite the fact we disagree Saami, I still enjoy debating with you. ( Please don't ever mistake an attack on Malon or your views as one on you personally. ) I don't think Malinkers are crazy, I just disagree with their view. But it's everyone's perrogative to believe what they wish, and the dev's would likely have it no other way. That Cremia hug that makes this Zelinker fidget uncomfortably was likely put there exactly FOR the benefit of the Malinkers....and balances the ZeLink evidence.

As far as Link and Malon... There is not much evidence in the game that supports this couple. You see Zelda more than anything throughout the game, which is not optional, and Link's reactions towards her directly or indirectly portray that she is the one that occupies most of his mind. Runo basically admits to defeat when awakened as a Sage, stating that she knows that he is thinking about Zelda. The interactions with Malon, on the other hand, are optional. You can progress through the entire game without ever stepping foot into the ranch; you only require her encounter in the beginning of the game when you need a chicken to wake up her father, but this is only because he needs to meet with Zelda. If Nintendo truly wanted the two to be a couple, why make it optional? Zelda is the dominant female character in Link's life, which is proven at the end of the game and the beginning of MM; if it was Malon that he loved/cared for, she would've been remembered instead of Zelda.

And that is exactly one of my reasons why I don't think Malink was the intended couple and that Zelink was. I mean, think about Link's interactions with Malon and his interactions with Zelda. Almost all of Link's interactions with Malon are optional. You have a choice to do the ranch side plot or not. Link's interactions with Zelda, on the other hand, are not optional. I wouldn't even say that Link being able to choose different things to say to Zelda during the courtyard scene are optional, because if you choose to have Link say the wrong thing, it really doesn't get you anywhere.

And that's my point exactly! Link never had to help Malon. He was never obligated to even see her again outside of that one time in Castle Town and outside of the castle. And after that Link may chose to forget her. The only reason he had to help her was because he wanted to. Chalk it up to him just being a nice guy or a hero. And yet I think it's funny that he would go out of his way to befriend Malon again, especially in the child time line when she has completely forgotten him and he has no obligation to her.