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 Zelda vs Malon, Comparing the two
Zeruda
Posted: Feb 9 2008, 05:56 AM


ゼルダ姫


Group: Hylian
Posts: 104
Member No.: 315
Joined: 3-February 08



OoT!Zelda is a very unique Zelda- she's similar to OoT!Malon in many ways, but she also differs by a lot. By the way, I'll be using the OoT!versions of these two, as there are various versions of the both of them.

MALON
**Responsible: We know that Malon is responsible at a young age because she goes after her father when he fails to return home after a delivery to the castle. She tends to the horses when she's older despite Ingo taking over.

**Social: Malon has good social skills, and that reflects on her personality. She has no problem talking to a complete stranger.

**Personality: We know she's an optimistic, happy person. She gives Link a nickname, which shows how easily she makes friends. She's very open. She's also strong-willed- she could have left the ranch, but she remains there. Still, she is a bit naive in that manner. It would have been a smarter decision to leave with her father when Ingo kicked Talon out. She's also somebody who enjoys a good sport- we can see that with horse racing.

**Talent: Singing! Malon is a talented songstress, a skill inherited from her late mother.

**Background: Upper-middle class. Malon is NOT poor as so many people have stated all over the world. She's from a ranch- one that has business both inside and outside the kingdom of Hyrule (Gerudo Valley is considered outside the kingdom). Lon Lon Ranch provides the Royal Family with goods, as proven by Talon making a delivery, so we can know that there is no possible way she is poor.

ZELDA
**Responsible: Like Malon, Zelda is quite responsible at a young age. She already tries to take care of her country by asking Link for help. As an adult, she realizes her mistakes, apologizes, and even sends the man she loves back to his own time- she lets him go and gives up her chance to be with him in order to give him his childhood back. During Link's quest, she disguised herself not only to aid Link, but also to prevent her capture which would have led her kingdom to certain doom.

**Social: While Zelda isn't allowed to go out, she's still quite social. She speaks with Link without any hint of shyness.

**Personality: She's a tomboy. She isn't worried about getting dirty. She's the bright-eyed and bushy-tailed type. She's caring, humble, and selfless: she tries to take care of her kingdom, she has no problem admitting her faults and mistakes, and she puts others before herself.

**Talent: Harp, Ocarina & Sheikah skills! Zelda obviously has knowledge of music, and she's skilled in the way of the Sheikah.

**Background: Zelda is of royal heritage. Unlike Malon and the majority of those in classes lower than her own, Zelda would have been taught academia. Her knowledge, compared to Malon, would be superior by far as she'd need these skills to lead a kingdom.
----------------------------------

IMPORTANCE
The two have very different roles, but they were both important. Without Malon, Link could not have obtained Epona. Without Zelda, all of Hyrule would fall. Still, Zelda is more important when it comes to saving Hyrule. The land can be saved without a horse, but the leader of the kingdom and the sages is by far more important.

ROMANCE
What we have to take into consideration is the TLoZ is a fairytale-type game. Why would Link and Zelda fall in love? For the same reason that every hero and damsel in distress falls in love- it's practically LAW. Link loses his best friend, Saria, the only person he's ever been close to and accepted by. The next person he meets is Zelda, and she immediately treats him with acceptance, kindness, and respect. Any person, male or female, is going to mentally latch to somebody who does that. It's human nature. Zelda, even in the form of a man, follows Link is his quest. How heartwrenching must it be for her to get so close to Link, but not be able to reveal herself? She's there the whole time, helping him the best she can. And, like Link, she too was alone as a child. She makes a new friend, and that bond blossoms into love as they grow older. Of course she's going to latch to him just as he would to her. Notice how in books and movies the DiD and hero fall in love- it's all basically for the same reasons.

Now let's look at Malon. She's the daydreamer. She wants her prince charming. Of course she's going to consider Link a possibility, especially after he saves her. But, unlike Link and Zelda, she has the ability to see other people wherever she goes for deliveries and other business trips. As seen in OoT, she goes to town. She's able to make friends, so she's not going to emotionally latch onto Link. She and Link don't go through anything near what Zelda and Link go through.

CONCLUSION
Anybody who says Link and Zelda couldn't be together because Zelda has to lead Hyrule has not payed attention to the series. When you beat AoL, she and Link kiss. Miyamoto stated that Link married Zelda and became the next king of Hyrule. So it's quite possible for OoT's Link and Zelda (child timeline only, though). Adult Timeline-wise, Link isn't in the picture because he's sent back. Zelda had to marry somebody else in order for Tetra to be born later on down the line... but child timeline-wise, Link would have had to come back from Termina and see Zelda again in order for the legend to be "held dearly by the Royal Family", so there is a possibility of the coupling working out.

It wouldn't be possible for Link and Malon to hook up in the adult timeline for the same reason Link and Zelda couldn't. Child timeline-wise, it's possible after he comes back from Termina..... but not probable. Link would have too many memories of Princess Zelda to be even remotely interested in any other girl. And the fact that MM's story is a legend held by the Royal Family is proof that he went to see Zelda again. Even after he was sent back in time, we see that he goes to see Zelda again at the end of OoT, and Zelda mentions that they shared time together in Hyrule before he leaves for Termina.

Link keeps going back to Zelda. For him, that's where he belongs- with the princess. But hey, there are other Malons and other Zeldas and other Links- maybe Malon has a chance in other games, but it's quite improbable that she'd have a chance with him in OoT.
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Saami
Posted: Feb 9 2008, 07:32 AM


Dark Link → Riven x Zelda


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Joined: 27-January 08



QUOTE (Zeruda @ Feb 9 2008, 12:56 AM)
Why would Link and Zelda fall in love? For the same reason that every hero and damsel in distress falls in love- it's practically LAW.

And that is the EXACT reason why I love Malink. Because it is unconventional and unexpected. Because everyone expects Link to be with Zelda because of everything they went through together. And because she is in all respects, his leading lady. But for him to all of sudden choose the lesser of the two. That element of surprise. Link wanting a normal life, instead of constantly being caught up in the whirlwind of adventures. For me that's what makes Malink all the more appealing. True enough he is a hero born and raised. But he is still an ordinary Hylian. I would say human, but they aren't exactly humans. He gets tired. He grows old. And he needs rest. That's all apart of Malink's appeal for me.
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Zeruda
Posted: Feb 9 2008, 11:03 PM


ゼルダ姫


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QUOTE (Saami @ Feb 9 2008, 07:32 AM)
QUOTE (Zeruda @ Feb 9 2008, 12:56 AM)
Why would Link and Zelda fall in love? For the same reason that every hero and damsel in distress falls in love- it's practically LAW.

And that is the EXACT reason why I love Malink. Because it is unconventional and unexpected. Because everyone expects Link to be with Zelda because of everything they went through together. And because she is in all respects, his leading lady. But for him to all of sudden choose the lesser of the two. That element of surprise. Link wanting a normal life, instead of constantly being caught up in the whirlwind of adventures. For me that's what makes Malink all the more appealing. True enough he is a hero born and raised. But he is still an ordinary Hylian. I would say human, but they aren't exactly humans. He gets tired. He grows old. And he needs rest. That's all apart of Malink's appeal for me.

That's a good point, too; however, I see MaLink working better in the Oracle series (or other games, even) than in OoT.

I do, however, support the MaLink coupling, for many of the reasons you have pointed out. But at the same time, I think Malon x Zelda works quite well, too, based on how their similarities-as well as their differences- compliment each other. ZeLon makes me reminisce about Marin, I guess... who's like Link's dream-girl version of Zelda... which makes ZeLon quite possible... and I'm talking in circles. X3
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gliderpilotgirl
Posted: Feb 10 2008, 09:40 PM


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I really liked Zeruda's breakdown of the two women: I think she nailed it.

In terms of personalties, I heartily agree.

Malon is undoubtably very social, you can tell she's great with people. Because of that ability, I've never seen her as a particularily lonely person, even if she is by herself at the moment. But I feel she'd naturally gravitate towards groups of people versus isolation, especially the kind of isolation that feels a part of Link.

Zelda on the other hand, I think she's social, but not to the extent that Malon is. Zelda I can see being content with small groups of people and close friendship, versus being one of a huge crowd. But the forced isolation she finds herself in I can see grating upon her. The same pervading sense of loneliness I feel from Link ( at least dealing with OoT Link ) I feel from Zelda as well. Her position would likely deny her the ability to become truly close to someone without them being "beneath her" and looking to her for guidance. Relationship-wise, just as Zeruda said, I feel she'd feel attracted to Link for that reason...she can be equal to him, and get close.

Another thing different about them is confidence. Malon has always struck me as confident and self-assured. Not really the type of girl to suffer from low-self esteem, unlike Zelda. Zelda is always apologetic, in both child and adult forms, and despite her qualities, the impression I get is she thinks of herself poorly.

Another way I can think to adequately compare them is to take for instance your typical high school situations and apply them to the two girls. Malon would be a popular girl, one of the in-crowd. She's not a mean person, so we wouldn't see behavior on par with Mean Girls or such, but she'd be well liked by the girls and especially the boys. She's also always struck me as flirtacious..maybe not consciously but most definately prone to flirting.

Zelda on the other hand I would see as a mix of a smart girl with a little nerd thrown in. She's beautiful and a nice person so she'd be liked by quite a few people, but not to the same extent as Malon. Probably because Zelda would make quite a few people feel threatened. She's also very intelligent, and doesn't strike me as the type to care too much about things like socializing and flirting. I think she could also be quirky too, seen in her tomboy-ish side.

Now leaving that behind and onto the relationship side: I don't think I can say any better than what Zeruda did. That pervading sense of loneliness I get from both Link and Zelda I feel would draw them together, because they both know exactly how the other is feeling. They need each other if that makes sense.

With Malon and her sociability, I see her as more likely to form shallower connections with multiple people than to specifically latch on to Link like Zelda would. With Malon, Link's not the only fish in the sea.
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Saami
Posted: Feb 11 2008, 12:09 AM


Dark Link → Riven x Zelda


Group: Hylian
Posts: 239
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Joined: 27-January 08



Link and Zelda never struck me as lonely. At the very beginning, Zelda seemed so sure herself and the fact that they would reach the Spiritual Stones before Ganondorf. Later on, when she realized what she had done, she was apologetic and took steps to correct it. Not really the "woe is me" type. I think without confidence, Zelda wouldn't have been able to take up Sheik (though I vehemently deny they are they same person. But since my belief constitutes an AU situation, that doesn't really matter). She hid for seven years, surviving, and managing to stay out of Ganondorf's grasp.

Being apologetic =/= low self esteem. She was sorry this happened and that she had dragged Link into the situation. But she wasn't mopey and she quickly laid out before Link what needed to be done to rectify the situation.

On the other hand, Malon does indeed strike me as a confident person. Living the way she does, constantly going to market and trading goods. And no doubt serving customers probably helps make her sociable and likable. However, she lost her mother and that no doubt had an adverse affect on her. Just because we don't see her at her low points, doesn't mean she doesn't have them.

Relationship wise, Link never struck me as being lonely. Not after a while, when he starting meeting all these people and gaining all these friends. He had no time or reason to be lonely. Not only that, Navi was with him all the time. Well she was until she left him. Either way, I don't think Link and the fact that I often perceived him as fun loving and enjoying the company of others, I think him and Malon would gravitate toward each other quickly. But once again, I think this has more to do with "the player as Link" kind of thing. Since Link is basically a blank slate so to speak and the player pretty much gives him a personality, I think we'll see what we want to see on him to make him fit with our favored girl.
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gliderpilotgirl
Posted: Feb 11 2008, 01:59 AM


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QUOTE (Saami @ Feb 11 2008, 12:09 AM)
Link and Zelda never struck me as lonely. At the very beginning, Zelda seemed so sure herself and the fact that they would reach the Spiritual Stones before Ganondorf. Later on, when she realized what she had done, she was apologetic and took steps to correct it. Not really the "woe is me" type. I think without confidence, Zelda wouldn't have been able to take up Sheik (though I vehemently deny they are they same person. But since my belief constitutes an AU situation, that doesn't really matter). She hid for seven years, surviving, and managing to stay out of Ganondorf's grasp.

Being apologetic =/= low self esteem. She was sorry this happened and that she had dragged Link into the situation. But she wasn't mopey and she quickly laid out before Link what needed to be done to rectify the situation.

On the other hand, Malon does indeed strike me as a confident person. Living the way she does, constantly going to market and trading goods. And no doubt serving customers probably helps make her sociable and likable. However, she lost her mother and that no doubt had an adverse affect on her. Just because we don't see her at her low points, doesn't mean she doesn't have them.

Relationship wise, Link never struck me as being lonely. Not after a while, when he starting meeting all these people and gaining all these friends. He had no time or reason to be lonely. Not only that, Navi was with him all the time. Well she was until she left him. Either way, I don't think Link and the fact that I often perceived him as fun loving and enjoying the company of others, I think him and Malon would gravitate toward each other quickly. But once again, I think this has more to do with "the player as Link" kind of thing. Since Link is basically a blank slate so to speak and the player pretty much gives him a personality, I think we'll see what we want to see on him to make him fit with our favored girl.

Dealing with Zelda's lack of confidence: it's more her reactions if you don't believe her as a child that I feel displays that vulnerable side of her. If you say you don't believe her, she looks away like she is hurt before begging you to trust her. Same with if you don't get her story..she puts herself down as a bad-storyteller. She is doubting her own abilities, making me believe she'd rather look badly upon herself ( a mark of low self-esteem ) than have it be the fault of another. The same goes as an adult: she blames it all upon herself, regardless of the fact Ganondorf played them..took advantage of the situation and used it to his gain. Most of the confidence she seems to display often stems from her belief in Link and that he'd succeed.

I don't see Zelda as the self-pitying type either, but loneliness and self-pity are not the same. My impression of her being lonely comes from how eager and pleased she is to see Link, and how quickly attached to him she becomes. Also in MM how sad she looks at his departure.

with Link: while he is indeed a blank slate, there are certain unalterable moments with him, one being in the beginning of MM. When he is trotting alone through the forest, he appears despondant, and the game had a definate parallel between him and the Skull Kid who was indeed very lonely. It's an impression, but one that the other games ( TP for one ) I always have felt reinforced it. The Hero's Spirit even tells TP Link that the path of the blade is lonely...with OoT Link I take this into account, and his situation. He was raised as an outcast, the boy without a fairy. Blamed for the Deku Tree's death and then he enters a life where he doesn't often stay in one location long..he moves on while they celebrate. To me, that's "the life of the Hero" and it seems very lonely. I doubt he'd ever enjoy the comfort of a warm and simple family life without compromising that fact. But we are obviously disagreed on that, and to each his own.

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Kitty_savior
Posted: Feb 11 2008, 02:42 AM


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QUOTE (Saami @ Feb 9 2008, 07:32 AM)
QUOTE (Zeruda @ Feb 9 2008, 12:56 AM)
Why would Link and Zelda fall in love? For the same reason that every hero and damsel in distress falls in love- it's practically LAW.

And that is the EXACT reason why I love Malink. Because it is unconventional and unexpected. Because everyone expects Link to be with Zelda because of everything they went through together. And because she is in all respects, his leading lady. But for him to all of sudden choose the lesser of the two. That element of surprise. Link wanting a normal life, instead of constantly being caught up in the whirlwind of adventures. For me that's what makes Malink all the more appealing. True enough he is a hero born and raised. But he is still an ordinary Hylian. I would say human, but they aren't exactly humans. He gets tired. He grows old. And he needs rest. That's all apart of Malink's appeal for me.

Both points are debatable.

Princesses marry princes, not heroes. In the context of medieval culture the difference is quite important. Except Aladdin - who became richer than the emperor himself and did not live in medieval Europe - those who marry the fairy tale princesses are men of equal rank. Princes marry below their caste, but that's hardly the case for their female counterparts. In fact, a search through Wikipedia's Fairy Tales list revealed a story about a princess who protests against marrying the son of a marquis. A marquis. Not a forest boy.

Is the HeroxPrincess relationship truly law? The damsel-in-distress scenario corresponds to how a love between savior and damsel is bound to develop, but not necessarily realize itself. Medieval mentality would more likely have Zelda undergo a political marriage than marry her Divinely-appointed bodyguard/hero. Even in terms of continuity the concept of Link as a king is incongruent. Wouldn’t it be appropriate for the royal line to spawn both Links and Zeldas if that were the case? One could argue that a normal Hylian family spawns the blonde, green-clad Hero of Destiny every few hundred years, but I am a firm believer in the ancestry concept and advocate the existence of a line of royal Zeldas and royal guardian Links. Ultimately, the Link and Zelda in my mind love in silence, love without the bind of children or marriage. Though if that’s not your take on the matter you can always write some convoluted fanfic detailing how Link and Zelda destroyed the nobility hierarchy or something of the sort.

That is why I love Zelink so much. Because whenever I write it I cannot fathom a happy ending, at least not in simple terms. Wouldn’t it be simpler, more adequate for Link to retreat to a simple life with a Malon or an Ilia? That he would choose a more difficult path in search of love has the power to impress me. That the paths of adultery, intrigue, sorrow, hope, and even political overhaul become possibilities in that search ignites my creative juices. I love how the pairing has the capacity to branch out.
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Saami
Posted: Feb 11 2008, 10:19 PM


Dark Link → Riven x Zelda


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Complete and total upheaval of a social order does make for an interesting read. But adultery doesn't make either of them noble. It just makes them jerks.
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Kitty_savior
Posted: Feb 11 2008, 11:13 PM


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Come, now. Where do I correlate nobility (either the social order or the virtue) with adultery? I just particularly like to read about messes, moral or otherwise.

In all honesty, though, I hope I wasn't misunderstood. unsure.gif
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Saami
Posted: Feb 12 2008, 12:04 AM


Dark Link → Riven x Zelda


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I didn't mean to imply that you said adultery was noble. I was only saying so because I think of Link and Zelda both being noble individuals and wouldn't do something like that. But I know adultery makes an awesome plot device.
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gliderpilotgirl
Posted: Feb 12 2008, 02:15 AM


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QUOTE (Saami @ Feb 12 2008, 12:04 AM)
I didn't mean to imply that you said adultery was noble. I was only saying so because I think of Link and Zelda both being noble individuals and wouldn't do something like that. But I know adultery makes an awesome plot device.

I'm agreed on that..Link and Zelda are known for their pure hearts..for being the paragons of what is noble and good. Personally, the idea of either in an affair would knock my opinion of them down quite a bit. I don't think they'd ever do something like that.

And the idea of Link and Zelda being forced to carry on a specific bloodline bothers me..because it means somewhere in each case there IS a Malon or an Ilia..some poor girl that has to be there to ensure the bloodline continues, regardless of whether Link loves her or not. Having a husband in love with another woman is a terrible thing. And same goes for Zelda's husband. Another man could have her heart, and that's wrong. Link and Zelda are too good of people to allow that to happen, IMO. This is Hyrule, not reality..and Zelda hardly seems to care where Link comes from. I have trouble seeing anything actually stopping them from marrying if they chose.

I do agree with Kitty_savior's admiration of Zelink in that aspect. Malon's freedom and lack of commitment would be easier, but I'd ask, " Is it a marriage of convenience"...whereas with Zelda, it would have to be love as it would not be entirely easy to take on the role of her partner and Hyrule's co-ruler.
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Saami
Posted: Feb 12 2008, 03:25 AM


Dark Link → Riven x Zelda


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I would think Link would settle down, not because it was convenient. But because he actually did love the person, be it Zelda or Malon (or any of the other girls). After all, marriage is a commitment that needs love to actually flourish, otherwise it's only going to lead to resentment.

And granted, running a ranch doesn't equal ruling a country, but it does require commitment and dedication. I've never ran a ranch before, but my father was raised on a small farm. And from what he told me, running just a small farm is a lot of work. So I don't think Malon is not without commitment. Her commitment is just not as broad as Zelda's.

And either way, if Link wasn't committed to either girl, why would he even bother to marry them? Wouldn't it just be simpler for him to remain a bachelor and keep his freedom?
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Kitty_savior
Posted: Feb 12 2008, 03:46 AM


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Now that I think about it, adultery is too strong a word for what I meant to say. I was thinking more along the lines of a Queen Elizabeth scenario, an unmarried queen who keeps a lover, rather than Link or Zelda actually cheating their spouses in favor of each other. I threw aside clarity for the sake of brevity.

[/QUOTE]And the idea of Link and Zelda being forced to carry on a specific bloodline bothers me..because it means somewhere in each case there IS a Malon or an Ilia..some poor girl that has to be there to ensure the bloodline continues, regardless of whether Link loves her or not. Having a husband in love with another woman is a terrible thing. And same goes for Zelda's husband. Another man could have her heart, and that's wrong. Link and Zelda are too good of people to allow that to happen, IMO. This is Hyrule, not reality..and Zelda hardly seems to care where Link comes from. I have trouble seeing anything actually stopping them from marrying if they chose.[QUOTE]

I don't believe it necessary for Link and Zelda to not love their spouses. People change. You don't forget your first love, but more often than not you fall in love again. I think Malon could make Link very happy regardless of a hypothetical 'past.' I think she could bring him the comfort that's overwhelming enough for him to face Zelda without heart-wrenching regrets.

I dunno. These are the kinds of complexities I keep in mind as a writer, not so much as a fan. I'm just trying to the explore the greys of the situation, is all. We aren't always provided with much in terms of videogame storytelling, and I always get some fun out of filling the gaps with the kind of failures and redemptions that make people...people. Anyways, to put a dent on these extended two cents of mine, I'll just say that Malon vs. Zelda is a matter of preference on what fans feel is best for their Hero, and that I think each girl holds her worth pretty graciously so as to make the choosing of a favorite a thoughtful process, if not a difficult one.

AND I'll add that someone should take up the job of modeling a Twilight Princess Malon so as to even things out now that Zelda's too darn purty for the pixelated world ^^
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Hylian Sword Master
Posted: Feb 12 2008, 01:44 PM


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Malon is a farm girl who has a serious crush on Link. Zelda is a princess who has a serious crush on Link. What is there to compare. They both havethe same hobby (getting Link to notice them) and the same occupation (fighting and pulling each others hair over Link) As I said not much to compare.
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Saami
Posted: Feb 12 2008, 03:54 PM


Dark Link → Riven x Zelda


Group: Hylian
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Joined: 27-January 08



QUOTE (Hylian Sword Master @ Feb 12 2008, 08:44 AM)
Malon is a farm girl who has a serious crush on Link. Zelda is a princess who has a serious crush on Link. What is there to compare. They both havethe same hobby (getting Link to notice them) and the same occupation (fighting and pulling each others hair over Link) As I said not much to compare.

I think they both have more dignity than that.
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