Zelda vs Malon, Comparing the two

*nods in agreement*

People constantly overlook that- no matter that his adventure in Hyrule itself set him on a far different path, but his adventures in Termania put him even further from his simple upbringing. Link goes from one adventure straight into another- he didn't have to stay and help all those people; once he recovered the Ocarina of Time and his true form, what was to stop him from just walking away and continuing on his own personal quest? Nothing. Instead he dedicates himself and his time to others once again. How can Malon begin to understand what he's seen or gone through, or what it's like to be completely and totally different from everyone else? There's no evidence that Malon share's the same drive to do better and move beyond her own little comfort zone. She'd be left behind while Link continued to press forward and have experiances that she wouldn't be able to understand or share. I'd feel sorry for her if she was in that situation.

And just as many heros who go back to simple things also press forward into more. Achillis, for one. Hercules for another. They always reach above and beyond, always trying and challenging themselves to do greater and better things.

It is a common theme in these games, and I'm surprised that so many overlook it.

I think the fact he was on another journey rather than settled again is proof enough that he doesn't desire the ordinary. And when he was returned to Hyrule back in time, he had all the opportunity in the world to fade into obscurity. He could have walked out of that temple and away from the Castle forever...why does everyone miss that? He returned to Zelda. I believe he returned to her after MM too: the fact he left in the first place doesn't diminish his feelings. Maybe he just needed to find part of himself that he lost when Navi left...and Zelda loved him enough to let him go do this.

People overlook it because they want to, IMO. It seems clear enough to me that he's not meant for the ordinary....not one Link in the whole series in the end is shown returning to their beginnings.
I think it's also overlooked because it's subtle..not everyone has the nose for romance us shippers do. I think alot of the romance is conveyed by subtext rather than open gestures.

If you think about it, the various Zelda games could very well be a part of different versions of the same, main story; Link and Zelda fall for each other (even if it may not be detectable at times, like in TP) and eventually bring Ganondorf to his knees. In order to dice up the different versions of the story, however, Nintendo has to throw in different factors that seperate the game from preceding versions and thus might throw in "other love interests". Nonetheless, it should be seen that, ever since the beginning, Nintendo has always intended on the relationship between Link and Zelda to occur. Why else would it be called "Zelda"? Hm... the series "Legend of Malon" doesn't exactly come to mind. Just the name itself (LoZ), being that the story is about Link's experiances, portrays that Zelda is the highlight of his journey.

Its pretty obvious to most Zelda fans that Link went back to Zelda to tell her what he had been through and to stop Ganon from carrying out his evil plan. There is nothing to suggest that Link went back to Zelda at the end of OOT because he had romantic/sexual yearnings for Zelda. The fact of the matter is that Link is not having any type of romantic relationship with anybody PERIOD. This implied romance you girls keep talking about seems to be solely based on celebacy. So even by your own admission, Links feelings for Zelda has nothing to do with sex is a clear admission that they are just close platonic friends and nothing more.

Plus Malon doesn't have to care about every blade of grass or every pebble in Hyrule as Zelda does to be a good wife to Link. I don't know anyone that is married including my own mother and sister that cares about the entire well being of the USA. These theories that Link has to force himself to fall in love with Zelda because she is over obsessed with the well being of Hyrule is beyond laughable.

IMO there is nothing unusual about Link settling into a humble lifestyle with Malon but if he did choose to be with Zelda I can live with that. Since MM ends the Child Timeline we can never know who Link ends up with except I can theorize that I'm Link and you girls can theorize that your Zelda and I would be more than happy to break your hearts and choose Malon over all of you pretend Zeldas

Wrap your head around the fact that just because Link isn't a horny little bugger, like the majority of male gamers, who wants to jump Zelda doesn't mean he isn't in love with her. Love for a person comes before lust for them. You continually prove your immaturity by bringing things back to the sex issue. You love a person because they make you happy, because they understand you and care for you, NOT because you can/get to have sex with them. None of us have ever mentioned celebacy or sex, so STOP BRINGING IT UP.

Secondly, no one ever said that Malon has to care about every blade of grass. She should have a thought for people outside of herself, and thus far, she hasn't shown a care for the concerns of the outside world- as long as her little Ranch is safe, everything is peachy for little miss ranch girl. At least Zelda isn't so selfish to care only about herself and restoring her own castle- she cares about all the races, just like Link does. Certainly more than can be said for Malon.

You're continuing to be a rude little child. You can theorize you're Link all the hell you want- it's clear you do anyway since you call Link idotic, and idolize Malon above any other character in the game. The point is, you're not, so get over it. No one else here has ever stated the way you have that they want to be Zelda- that's your assumption, so keep it to yourself.

*nods* He's continually shown seeking more- that he's not satisfied with going back to the simple life. The ending of OoT shows him returning to Zelda. MM shows him continuing his journey. WW shows Link setting off with Tetra in search of new lands. TP reveals Link to be riding off away from Ordon. OoA&OoS show Link boarding a boat and setting forth on a new adventure. I believe he returned to Zelda after the events of MM too- his leaving didn't mean he cared for her any less, merely that he needed to get a grasp on himself after all he had gone through and to find a way to be comfortable with who he was, in addition to seeking what he lost when Navi left. The fact that it's Zelda he's shown parting with certainly suggests how hard it was for him.

Oh, definitely. People ignore the suble hints and Link's own personal feelings toward the characters, instead focusing on what they believe Malon/Saria/Ruto or whoever deserves or loves. Link's own feelings are lost in the matters. And I agree- Link has never been meant for an ordinary life. I don't know how much clearer the creators can make that.

Twilight Mistress- Very good point! The Zelda games always have the same basic plot line, though they do throw curves in every now and then like with Ilia and Midna. In the end it always comes back to the three Triforce bearers and it always will.

That's something that truly bothers me. He continued his journey in Majora's Mask. Yes that's true. But the prologue suggested to me that he was restless. I don't think he cared much for staying in one place too long. The fact that he could pick up his sword and go as he pleased was something I highly doubt he would want to give up, if he was meant to always be a hero like you guys keep suggesting. He would return to Zelda, yeah. But based on what you were saying, he wouldn't stay for very long. Because eventually, wouldn't life in the castle fall into a routine, just as much as life on Lon Lon Ranch? Fact is, if Link became king, he would have to give up certain aspects of being a hero. Constantly leaving on a whim, would not be acceptable. Especially since some of the races in Hyrule seem to have their own form of government anyway. I don't think he would be as able to pick up and leave the throne should something come up and he is needed by the people. But he could just leave the country in Zelda's hands. If he does that, isn't he essentially doing the same thing to her as he would do to Malon? Either way, Link would be leaving someone behind to fight for the kingdom and somebody would be left to shoulder the responsibility while he was gone.

Any life that Link settles into after he returns to Hyrule would eventually become "ordinary" and routine. Whether he settles in the castle, on the ranch, or remained a bachelor the rest of his life. And anyway you slice it, he will be leaving somebody behind. That's something that can't be avoided.

I try not to overlook how Link might feel in a given situation. But the fact is, most of the time we don't know. Someone may interpret Link's reaction to Ruto in the Water Temple as "OMG wtf are you talking about?" as opposed to "You know where Zelda is? Tell me cause she's my one true love." And the scene in the sky may not convey the same romantic feeling for everybody. So really anybody who ships Link with any of the girls is overlooking how he feels about something. They may be reading too much into a given situation and in turn may very well be confusing a great friendship with a great love. I'm not saying that's what you guys are doing though. Just in general. Sorry. That's some fail clarification right there.

I think the point of Twilight Princess was to show that simple things could be just as important to Link as saving the world. Ilia meant a lot to him, obviously and that wasn't going to change. And I think LA and MM are perfect examples of showing that the Zelda series is not always about Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, and the Triforce. I think the devs were trying to show (especially in MM) how the world outside of Hyrule was influenced by Goddesses. In MM, the Triforce or Ganondorf or Zelda even had no real bearing on what happened in their lives. And I totally lost where I was going with this bit. So I'mma shut up now.



I don't think I post enough here. I really should start posting again. But anyway that's my two cents. And I hope it all made sense cause it did in my head. Also, I am a mite curious as to why Link keeps getting brought up in a thread that was meant to be about Zelda and Malon solely. Ah well. It all goes back to shipping I guess. Ok ok ok. Going back to my corner now.

I've made the case before that his heroic role would merely change if he married Zelda or chose to stay with her. Isn't it just as heroic to spend your life serving others and fighting for them within a kingdom? I'd say more so as his tie would mean he was giving up a life of unlimited freedom. ( This is pretty much exactly what Zelda lives under ) He'd still be the kingdom's hero..just with authority and resources. As proof of this I'll bring up AoL. Do you think that Link lost his heroism after he married Zelda? ( As per the backstory's prophesy. )

Dealing with Malon, I have a hard time seeing him splitting his role between her and the kingdom. There is little heroism IMO with feeding cows or training horses. Overall I just see such a huge split in the focus of that lifestyle vs what he does as a hero.

Even if something did call Link away, my question is this: who could better handle his absence? Zelda or Malon? I'd say Zelda for sure...she's a very strong woman. She's got ample resources and people to help her. Malon on the other hand doesn't. He'd likely cause her real hardship if he left. It's more than that too.... I don't think Malon possesses the independance to deal with her situation even if her material needs were met. She doesn't do anything as an adult to better her situation...she just sits there and takes what happens.

I've seen the argument before about her providing him stability/escape for sanity and such...but IMO that is entirely contingent on Malon being able to handle what happens. Based on her appearances in multiple games plus Cremia and Romani...I just don't see the internal strength in her that Zelda has. I don't think she was meant to have it either.

Also: another argument I've seen is Malon supposedly needs Link more. Maybe she needs a man more. But that seems to be considering Malon over Link, IMO. Does Link really need to worry about her?

Are you really sure that LA has no Zelda? Wasn't that what Marin was supposed to represent?
And MM: Zelda played a pivotal role, if not there physically. Her foresight was responsible for Link and all of Termina being saved.

I felt that what the prologue was basically suggesting that Link was discontent with not knowing where Navi was , and still unsettled about all that had happened to him in his OoT adventure. I didn't really see it as a restlessness in that he needed to continually travel and explore, but more in that he had issues that he couldn't solve by staying where he was; he had to go on that journey to bring peace to himself. I really felt that at the end of MM Link has settled and become much more at peace with who he is- he may have not yet found Navi, and he might have still been searching for her, but there's nothing to suggest that once he completes his quest he won't return to Hyrule.

As GPG stated, both women would have to put up with a husband who was away often if either married Link. Though the question is indeed who is better able to deal with his absence. GPG covered it fairly well- in seeing how the two deal with hard situations, Zelda's more likely to handle it well being of a stronger character able to adapt to change. I would think Malon would have a much harder time dealing with a husband who is constantly away- not only that but she and her father basically hint that whoever marries Malon will need to be a partner who can work and help out there. If Link's the wanderer that you've implied, that wouldn't be an ideal situation for either of them, Malon not having a husband and partner there to work with her, and Link being torn between the desire to roam and the knowledge that he has responsibility to stay and help on the ranch.

I understand what you're getting at, Saami, and you're right that sometimes it's hard to tell what a specific reaction means, though it some cases it's so simple but people end up overanylizing it. The thing is, in addition to interpreting Link's reactions in the game, there's also the manga as an added bonus that builds on his actions in the game and confirms that many of those moments in the game are very well meant to be romantic ones.

I didn't mean to imply that simple things don't matter to Link or that his roots and simple people from his past won't always be important to him. It's part of what makes Link such a great hero- that he doesn't forget the simple country folk and how things affect him, but he also thinks beyond that bubble into greater and more important things. Ilia meant quite a bit, and so did the children that he saved, but in OoT so did the Kokiri and many of the common people he meets- I don't think that Twilight Princess was unique in that aspect.

But Zelda and Ganondrof were invovled in LA in part. Marin is meant to be the dream world's version of Zelda- Link mistakes her for the princess at first, which suggests that they are similar in appearance. Their personalities are also very similar in that they both seem to have knowledge of events due to foresight, brave and strong women, and so on and so forth. And one of the Nightmare bosses in the Windfish Egg is a nightmare Ganon- so yes, they still are involved in that game, though in a different form and to a lesser extent.

As GPG said, MM has Zelda's influence in it as well with her enabling Link with the object that would help save Termania. You can also argue that Termania has a parallel of every character from the original OoT. Link's would be the Fierce Diety, and you can consider Ganon's as Majora's Mask, a force determined to destroy everything, and Zelda's as the Goddess of Time who gives Link the tools and means neccissary to save the world in three days.

Fully agree with this- his heroic deeds would only continue and grow if he married Zelda.

I feel the same way- Malon's way of life is more about providing for herself and her father, and making ends meet on a day to day basis. Link and Zelda's life has never been about that sort of thing, they're always pushing to do better or to help others and so forth. They live their lives for others, wheras Malon tends to only live for herself and her own small world.

I'm not sure how he keeps getting brought in here, as this is supposed to be a discussion comparing the two different females, but I guess it's unavoidable when the majority of us here have a personal interest in the shipping. And no, don't stay in your corner, Saami. We always like hearing your different POVs.

Yeah...everything Sammi said.

Now this is my beef: IMO Link would not be doing any heroic deeds confined to the Castle as a useless trophy pet on display. IMO living the humble lifestyle with Malon will free him up for more time to do realistic heroic deeds. Not as a freakshow trophy fulfilling Zelda's erotic fetishes for obedient boy toys.

OK seriously though...as for Malon it would not be impossible for her to be just like a perfectly normal uncomplicated simple housewife awaiting for her soldier boy to come home. My vision of Link being a Knight/Vassal in which I see Link being alerted at Lon Lon ranch on a problematic danger at a nearby village. He quickly dons his Hero tunic, readies Epona for battle, and then there would be an emotional dramatic moment of a teary eyed Malon wishing for her husbands safe return. Link will stand close to her all silent and brave, comforting his wife like a good husband/provider would and should before he gallantly rides off for battle. Then Link gives Malon a nod of reassurance and quietly tells her that he promises to return to her safely. Then he mounts on Epona nearby and off he goes to heroically and courageously battle the danger.

I can't prove this will ever happen but neither can any one of you with your own fancy and prissy impressions of Link being like a coddled child to Zelda living in the Castle. To me this is a comically ridiculous existence for Link. Zelda is too good for Link IF she chooses to be in a weird and bizarre romantic relationship with her implied treatment of Link as a over obedient titty baby with incredible strength and courage like Hercules. Malon will probably make a real man out of him, and Zelda can just settle for a more qualified gentleman suitor.

I'm sorry I am not as polite and gracious as Sammi is but I just get annoyed with this whole Malon would make a bad wife for Link theories.ARRGGHH

The relationship between Link and Malon is very unlikely, being that Malon seems to be the type of girl that is helpless and weak (she pretty much has a temper-tantrum when she doesn't get her way, too). I think she'd pretty much go with any guy that would walk into her life to sweep her off her feet, willing to take away all of her burdens and responsibilites. MalonLover has constantly brought up about how he thinks that Zelda "mothers" Link (which in my opinion she's not; that statement right there is sexist being that guys seem to fly off the handle when confronted by intelligent women), yet no one has taken into consideration that Link would be rather fatherly to Malon. Let's face it; Malon wants to live in a care-free world, wishing that a guy will come along and make everything better. If you ask me, Link would be acting more like a parent than anything. Zelda, on the other hand, since she's a strong, independant woman, would be more compatible with Link. Because they both have more in common, they compliment each other and there is absolutely no one in control of the other; they work alongside one another (which has been shown countless times) and love each other, not because of what the other can offer them, but because they connect spiritually and emotionally. Simple as that.

Also, I just wanted to counter the one argument about Link recieving a hug from Cremia; since you are not required to collect all of the masks in MM, you really don't have to save the ranch after you are reunited with Epona. Thus, the moment where you CAN recieve a hug from Cremia is insignificant and is only another filler for gamers that want to do more than just the main events in the story.

BTW, Marin IS supposed to represent Zelda. If you guys start playing the game in the beginning, after Link awaken's from the ship-wreck, Marin says something to this effect: "Zelda? No... I'm Marin. I don't know who you're talking about. (or something like that)"

One other thing; is it too farfetched to believe that Link could have been dreaming about Termina the entire time? I mean, he DID hit his head pretty hard from falling off of Epona when she was startled. Just thought it made sense, since we normally dream about people that we have encountered and thus would explain why all of the characters are mirror images of the ones found in OoT. Dunno. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Yeah I've heard of that theory too about MM Link dreaming. I've read about it so it seems possible. As for the Cremia hug, I don't think it guarantees anything that he will marry Malon, only that he might be physically attracted to Malon and nothing more. What you say as fatherly I see as manly but you make a decent point at least.

How many times do we have to ask you to stop saying stuff like this? Has the message not sunk in yet? As we've stated, there's nothing to suggest that Zelda would ever treat Link like that, so STOP saying it unless you have actual evidence to back it up- which you have yet to provide except to generalize about royalty. It's bashing Zelda and Link, and that is NOT allowed here. I could just as easily retort that Link being with Malon would make him nothing but her little work slave wasting his life shoveling horse manure instead of actually doing something worthwhile, so STOP IT. Unless you want real insults about Malon thrown around, you better knock it off. As it is, I'm going to report you if any more such statements come from you. I've asked nicely and repeatedly, and I'm tired of having to remind you to behave yourself.

Now, we're kinda getting a little off track again in this thread. We're supposed to be discussing Zelda and Malon, not Link, though I think the idea about Termania being a dream is a good topic to discuss, just not here. D'you want to start a thread somewhere to discuss it, Twilight Mistress?

I am also certain his heroic role would change. But I don't think it's the type of change he would want. I don't think they would make exceptions for Link if he is crowned king. He took that title and all the responsibilities that came with it. I see a difference between ruling over the people and saving them.

For me, I've never pictured Link as being a commander. As being the type of person that would want that type of responsibility. I don't think he has the personality to be an effective king. He's a follower. I'm mean and not saying he's incapable of being a king. I don't mean to imply that. He just never struck me as being the kind of person who would be comfortable being royalty. He's been a humble individual all of his life and to just up and become king, I think, would take some of that away from him.

Being the hero we met in OoT is just a part of Link's personality that he really wouldn't be able to part with so readily. And maybe that's why he became the Hero's Shade (if you think the Hero's Shade = The Hero of Time).

No there is nothing heoric about milking a cow. I didn't mean to suggest there was. But that's the type of life I can honestly envision (my) Link enjoying. He wouldn't be so far removed from being humble.

I think his surroundings are what helps him to keep his humble personality. And it's such a giant leap from spending 10 years of your life living in a tree house to moving into the castle. And I think as far as his comfort level is concerned, he would be much better suited on Lon Lon Ranch. Not necessarily as Malon's husband, cause I don't think it would be fair for him to decide to take up with Malon just because he didn't feel comfortable in the castle. If he truly loved Zelda, he'd deal with being uncomfortable and he'd eventually get used to it.

And I don't understand why it is so farfetched for Malon to be understanding of the type of life Link has. Granted, the only game with Malon in it that I've played is OoT (I've played Majora's Mask, just not enough to actually meet Cremia or Romani.). So scripts or links to specific scenes would be greatly appreciated.

But anyway, I would think Link would have to explain that to her and she would have to have understood that in order for either of them to even consider each other as potential significant others. I don't think it's difficult for her to understand and for her to accept that Link holds this great responsibility to Hyrule. She is apart of Hyrule as well so that would encompass her and the ranch.

I've never pictured Marin as a representation of Zelda. For the simple fact that the dream isn't Link's. If it were, it would be easier for me to be convinced that Marin was supposed to be some dream representation of Zelda.

It's 2 a's not 2 m's.

Alantie: Sure.

Btw, what proof do you have that it wasn't Link's dream in LA? The whale (or fish or whatever) could have easily been associated in his dream as well. There's no actual proof that you have to discard the fact that it was Link's dream.

And again, Link would be more fatherly towards Malon than anything, which is very pitiful if you ask me. Not only would Link have to take on her responsiblities and his own heroic responsibilities, but he would also be forced into a situation where he was providing for her and doing everything for her like a child. Link would need someone that would stand alongside him, someone that would understand him, and someone that was as independant as he was. You want to be at the same level as far as maturity, beliefs, and values. Malon would completely contradict all of these traits; Zelda would definately be the better match.

The dream that made up LA was, I think, partially the Wind Fish's and partially Link's. They were both caught up in the same spell, so the both of them could have subconsciously affected the dream. After all, Ganon was in the game, but who's to know if the Wind Fish has even heard of him?

Anyway, back on the actual topic, in regards to Malon understanding what Link had gone through on his adventures, she's only going to be able to understand to a certain extent. Not to say she's dumb or anything, it's just that she hasn't really experienced anything as traumatic as fighting hoards of monsters in dark dungeons.
For example, we may see it on movies and whatnot, or hear about it from our elders, but do any of us really know what it would be like to fight in the trenches of WWI? Sure, we can read and hear and learn about it, and we could guess as to how it would have been like, but we wouldn't really know.
Zelda, on the other hand, got into all sorts of shenanigans during her tenure as Sheik. And while she didn't go fighting boss monsters like Link did (at least as far as we know), she would at least understand what fighting monsters would be like. Malon has no such reference.