Ideas for fics, In need of some, scab if you want

I don't know. I'm focusing on OiH still. I'm still at the end of chapter 18 on 27, so I'll be busy for another while.

And for oneshots I just write whatever comes to mind first. The plot develops later on. Sometimes I get crap, sometimes I get "So Like Link".

Take a chance, you don't know what might happen!

Why don't you send the two of them on a camp? I just came back from one, and there's a girl I have a crush on there. hee...

Seriously, though, camps are fun things to write, even if they're a bit too cliched. 'Cause if you're in the mood for oneshots, just stick with little things in my opinion.

I couldn't double post, so I'll need Amaya-chan to move this to the ideas for fiction once someone responds there. Because I need some people to talk with me about this.

I had an idea. A flash of light. A massive explosion.

And with it came one of the worst backlashes that an author can confront.

Pretty much; storyline in nutshell.

Zelda is like, disobedient child of King, who keeps on telling her "please don't go clubbing, it's dangerous" and she being the wild child, decides to go clubbing anyhow.

Then, one night, she starts flirting with a guy, but he gets to drunk, and holding a broken beer bottle to her throat, forcibly has sexual intercourse with her. Or rather, rapes her.

And that guy would be Link. Whoopee la.

I have every intention of making it LxZ. I have every intention of putting Amaya chan in.

I have every intention to start this once I get through my soap opera parodies. Excuse me.

So please. Could I get some help? Please?

Merged at your request, DH. But I think it would've been better if you/I just edited your post...oh well.

~ PH

Wow, DH. Certainly it's a more mature theme, but I can't see why it wouldn't work. Although I'd have trouble picturing Link forcing himself onto anyone. I see him as cocky, at best, but I have trouble picturing him with the profile of a rapist. At least, it wouldn't fit a "romance" theme. Rapists fit the angst style.

That would need ample justification. In a way, I could see them having a pseudo-rape case, in which Zelda would be submissive but not unwilling. Otherwise, I fail to see how it could become a sane and plausible "romantic" story.

Sure, it'd be an interesting twist on the relationship, but I'm curious to hear a bit more detail as to how you intend to pull this one off.

And, um, help? What kind of help? You mean advice, or actual writing help?

I needed a bit of idea after that.

I didn't have too much trouble with it; it dealt with a great die issue about girls dolling up and looking like sluts. And I'm sorry if I offend people. But if you see a girl, and you think she's around 16, and she's actually twelve, what do you expect?

Pretty much, Zelda starts flirting. Link gets wrong message. He gets drunk. And the rest of it goes awry.

I intended to bridge the gap between victim and perpertrator using Saria as Link's sister. And then it would come down to an issue of what happened between them and how he has violated her.

It's interesting, but unrealistic? I dunno...that's why I need input...and I wanted to put in remorse into it. Like, especially on something about how guys might sexually abuse their wives, and afterwards regret it and everything? Yeah. A bit like that. Just a bit mroe overblown.

PH, sorry I didn't post it here, just if I edited it it wouldn't have caught CGM's attention. I needed a fresh topic. Like Only in Hyrule.

Oh Goddesses, what a heavy sort of plot line

Well, lets see what I can do to help. Here's my train of thought for the plotline : Zelda doesn't really want to go clubbing, but her friends make her, doll her up in slutty outfit, then they sort of abandon her at the club. She gets really drunk, runs into Link who's also really drunk and it leads to the whole rape thing. *ish sad* Zelda when she comes to herself is horrified/disguisted with herself and wants to die, but her friend Malon makes her go into a group counsling thing where Zelda meets Saria. Maybe Saria has problems with an abusive boyfriend or something. She and Zelda meet there, but Zelda doesn't tell Saria the name of the guy who attacked her. At the same time, Link is horribly guilty/wants to die, and Saria forces him to come to the group therapy with her, where to his utter horrer, Zelda is. And things go from there. Any help? Lots of angst. .. lots and lots of angst

I don't really know what to think. I'm still not convinced. This sort of mature subject needs a lot of psychological input and for every movement to feel natural, it would have to seem as though the outcome was inevitable.

If the characters act a certain way, their actions have to be justified and not easily detracted. Their choices should seem like they were the only possible option at the time, and readers shouldn't be able to go, "Why didn't s/he just do...?" Otherwise, the story seems weak and the characters look stupid or psychopathic.

I know from experience. Nighttime Activities didn't work for exactly that reason (I blame peer pressure ).

It seems to me that a romance coming from a situation like that one is implausible at best. Link would have to be very charming and apologetic indeed for Zelda to actually fall in love with the guy who, on first impression, forced himself onto her.

Plus, if you want the readers to enjoy the end couple, there must be a strand of humanity in both characters throughout the WHOLE story, including the rape scene. Otherwise, people will just think, "Hey, that son of a b*tch!" or even "What a stupid girl!" and start disliking either or both characters. It won't matter that they're back to their good and caring selves the next day (which seems implausible again), the readers won't be hooked anymore.

In all forms of published writing, the idea is for readers to like and accept the characters without failing, because if they falter in their reading experience, you lost them for the rest of the story. At least, that's my view of it. I'm not saying this fic is impossible to write, nor am I insinuating that it wouldn't be good. Far from it. The reading experience of it should and probably would be extremely interesting.

My point is, it would require a lot of thought and planning, which you'd have to be willing to put in. If you are, go with my blessing!

Point One: If Link runs away, half in a fit of shame, and the other half really scared, does that make him a bad guy?

I was thinking that he was holding a broken bottle to her throat (must get some reason) and then he pushes her against the wall, and does his bit of dirty work. Pretty much, in that position, I'm pretty sure that she can't do anything (though I am slightly loth to try it) and then afterwards, when he comes to his senses, he sees her crying, half naked, on the floor (probably of some disused alleyway) and he gets scared, thinking Oh my God, what have I done (or Oh my Goddesses), and runs away.

I need input on whether that's plausible.

I had this "bridging the gap" scene between Link and Zelda where they're doing that clapping hands game that girls play. Pretty much, Saria and Zelda had been doing it earlier, and Link was the one that had originally taught it to Saria. That would play out in a totally different manner.

Pretty much, I have to disagree with the reluctant thing, to explain why she might even want to know Link better after what he's done to her. I want to use Saria to give a good side to Link, so Zelda will deal with the person Link was (from what Saria has told her) the person she remembers in her nightmares, and the person she meets when she's forced to see him.

And I will force her. God I'm cruel.

Graaaahhhh. . .. To be honest? I don't think Link would ever rape someone. And normally, yes, people who are raped usually know the rapist. Blehhhh. . . How about they have sex while their drunk instead of Link raping her?

If Saria were to be the reflection of Link's positive side, don't you think it's going to generally pan out like:

Zelda: I got raped by him. I feel so dirty. He's very hot, though.
Saria: I know he raped you. But he feels very sorry about it. Why don't you give him a chance to show you how romantic and caring he is?
Zelda: But he raped me, even though he's so cute.
Saria: Yes, but he likes pina coladas and getting caught in the rain.
Zelda: Oh, fine, I'll give him a chance, then.

Okay, that's a dramatization, but the overall feeling would be like that, no?

I know you're tired of me being critical by now, but I still think it's implausible that Link would do something so incredibly stupid. Rapists, of any kind, are mentally disturbed. Even those who feel bad afterwards. It's like someone who takes drugs and knows it's bad for them: just because they know it might kill them doesn't mean they're gonna stop. I cannot seem to picture Link with that sort of mental disorder.

Besides, why would he suddenly just hold a broken bottle to her throat? In an alleyway? (What was she doing there in the first place?) Drunkeness does not imply stupidity. It simply changes a person's reaction time and cancels their inhibitions. If alcohol were to be what caused Link to act like that, he'd have to be a closet rapist, which clashes with the idea that he could become a sensitive sort of guy.

If the story holds a powerful scene such as a rape, there would have to be an even more powerful scene to right the wrongs (see Tolkien's catastrophe vs. eucatastrophe). And I don't think clapping games would solve that, no offence. I know that if a guy raped me, he'd have to save a lot of people's lives for me to consider speaking to him again. And I'm not saying this because I'm a stubborn person. It's just natural. Why trust someone who did nothing to make you trust them?

Now, if Link and Zelda knew each other from the start and Link, in a drunken stupor, acts on his love for her to initiate something for which she wasn't completely ready, it would make more sense. It would keep the idea that he does care, and it would make it seem less drastic than if he held a broken bottle to her throat in an alleyway.

Otherwise, if Zelda is supposed to be anything near smart, she'll be running as fast as her legs can carry her the minute Link steps into the scene.

I'm just saying that it's difficult to write a love story between a rapist and his victim. It most likely never happened before, because of the sheer improbability of it. That's why I'm suggesting to tone the rape thing down. We're talking about an extremely traumatic event, here. I'm not against violence in a literary context, but if you truly intend to make something so tragic into a feel-good love story, you're going to have to reconsider the initiator.

Even if Saria were the best mediator in the world, the resolution of problems will have to come from Link and Zelda themselves. If they don't have a basis for this eventual change, it'll come out of nowhere and ruin the plot.

Soo long...I can't see it all. Be right back. Must address every single point.

Change this to something like this.

Saria: He's like a big brother to me. When I was really little, I got abandoned on the street, and he was the onyl person to look after me. He got us food, and found places for me to stay, and he worked really hard for me to get to school...
Zelda: *silence*
Saria: blabs on.

I dunno whether that would work. I didn't even want to put in "hot" until afterwards. Like, post afterwards very far. Instead, I wanted to construct two different extremes: the wonderful person Saria claims to be, and the person Zelda remembers that night when he raped her. It presents a dilemna, and Zelda wants to know what the truth is: is he just a sadistic asshole, or is he actually a good person?

Hmm...in terms of inhibition, I saw the scene like this: he thought she wanted to get laid. But he was too shy to ask her. He gets really drunk. Cancel shyness, cancel wanting to ask, get right down to laying. Or in this case raping. So, it might pan out. Or it presents another good thing to explore: his rapist mind.

Maybe, in an agreement that rape might be a bit over the top, she does at first allow him, and then she gets nervous, but he doesn't stop? That does constitute as rape. I think...

I had an idea that Zelda was supposed to (for political reasons, sorta to show she was a strong woman) confront her fear of her rapist, to try and get over the life shattering incident, so they requested that she take part in a program of sorts, where she would periodically come face to face with the rapist, and try and confront him. Idea-make him feel worse and her feel better, because she would be able to confront him, and make him feel really guilty.

The clapping game was just like a little part. I was thinking of a gradual change in attitude, 'till a good vs bad side comes out. Like, Zelda has another dilemna; she's starting to like him, but she also keeps on remembering the man who screwed her. So it's all very messy currently.

Hmm...and I have an ending in mind. I'll talk once you guys respond.

Oh, and Alantie, not meaning to be harsh, but its sorta the whole point of the plot that she got raped. I'm just as sadistic as some other sickos sometimes...

See, that poses a problem of another kind: why would she ever doubt that the sadistic rapist isn't real? It's the one she experienced first hand. I sincerely doubt any portrayal on Saria's part of a gentle and caring guy could possibly shake that first impression. As I said, Saria could be the best mediator in the world and still not solve the mental issues of a rape victim.

Yes. That constitutes a form of rape. Also, I must say that it seems much more plausible than broken beer bottles, because that's the kind of rape that occurs most often. Though it's usually between people who know each other...

If, in order to reconcile Link and Zelda, you choose to have Zelda confront him willingly, you'll have to remember that it's extremely difficult to face one's fears. When you get to that, you'll have to make it extremely gradual. The first time, she could freak out and back away, and actually meet him only on the second meeting. I'm saying this because it's not true that a victim will confront their aggressor with a clear mind and precise arguments. That would take time.

As an aside, if there was such an organisation that could help victims confront their rapists, trust me, it'd have been disbanded a long time ago. Because the rapists would have been sent straight to prison.

That's why I stand by the concept that Link and Zelda actually were acquainted, if distantly, from the start. It drives away the idea that she'd have denounced Link; it gives Link a basis to be attracted; it helps Zelda confront him later on.

Though for now we're discussing the likelihood of it all, I'm curious to hear a bit more detail on the overall plot development. What timing are you thinking of using for the story?

I love people who think like me.

I like them knowing each other. It solves Saria being ultimate mediator. And gives another kind of different exploration for Saria again. Incorporate Alantie's ideas.

In prison visit with guards inside and everything. I dunno. It might work still.

Well, timing? Hmm...since I am so uneducated, what do you mean by timing?

AU.

Sort of, in first chapter, I visualised Zelda on the couch, crying, and a news report describing what's happened. Then give a general public opinion, and a few other people's ideas, and maybe something of Link's face on the TV screen.

Next chapter, I visualised Zelda getting out of her home, room, castle, whatever I can think of to make her abode, and giving a speech denouncing (since I'm changing the plot in my mind) her former friend. Zelda gives this at a public news conference, pretty much shattering Link (I think you gave me the whole idea of likes girl, too shy to ask her out, gets drunks lays her thingo, CM) and then Zelda is approached by a Help Rape Victims Association delegate, who says that if she could overcome her fear of her rapist then she could prove an inspiration to all other women etc.

Those are first two. If you want more, tell. If you criticise, good.

I meant timing as in 'at what speed will the character evolution happen?' How many chapters will the story span and how many of those chapters will be dedicated to Zelda's healing process?

As for the prison thing, if Zelda already knew Link, then you won't have that issue to work out, since it's unlikely that she'd denounce someone she already knew.

That may seem senseless, but it actually isn't. Would you denounce a friend if they had a quickie without your full consent? Unlikely. You'd probably just feel extremely unsure and awkward around them. It would probably also ruin the friendship, but whatever.

But there would still be some place left for forgiveness and eventually more.

Sounds like you have a good start going! Doesn't even seem like you need me anymore, lol

I think what CM means by timing is what time it takes place in. From the sound of things, it seems to be a pretty modern fic.